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[edit] "Andalusian"

I am moving here the following piece of text because it doesn't seem relevant enough in this context: "Andalusian" is just one more dialect of the several existing of Spanish within Spain.

The Andalusian dialect (also called andaluz) of European Spanish is spoken in Andalusia. There are several phonetic differences from Castilian Spanish, some of which are reflected in Andalusian-influenced Latin American Spanish. This differences can be seen in the phonology as well as in the intonation and vocabulary.

Mountolive | Talk 16:27, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I have no strong feelings about the removal. Nonetheless the phonetic and lexicological differences between Andalusian Spanish and Castellano estándar are indeed much greater than those of any other dialect. Regards, Asteriontalk 20:53, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Is the american english a dialect of the british english ?? nooo Is the andalusian spanish a dialect of the castilian spanish ?? neither, it is simple

¡Oh, Dios mío! I'm Spanish. THE ANDALUSIAN IS A DIALECT OF THE CASTILIAN SPANISH. We only have 4 official languages: 1. Spanish 2. Catalán 3. Gallego 4. Vasco (Euskera) The andalusian has many grammatical and phonetical mistakes, but IT'S SPANISH! Some examples of andalusian: Helado (ice-cream) --> "helao" Pescado (Fish) --> "Pescao" Casa (House) --> "Caza" Queso (Cheese) --> "Quezo" Zumo (Juice) --> "Sumo" Zapatos (shoes) --> "Sapatos" Hijo (Son) --> "Hiho" etc...

We can say this words as a dialect, but when we are writting, we can't use this "andalusian" words.

WE CAN'T WRITE: Tengo una "Caza" WE MUST WRITE: Tengo una Casa

I'm Andalusian, and you're wrong. Andalusians write and read Spanish correctly but it sounds too different and too unique that it is easily recognisable. Although the less educated people usually write as they speak (wrongly at different levels)most andalusians do it correctly.

So there's a great controversy for outside viewers. But from the inside, people at some cultural level consider Andalusian different to the Castilian just phoneticaly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.136.8.93 (talk) 16:10, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm a Spaniard and I didn't even know anybody considered Andalusian a dialect... As I see it, it's just Spanish with an accent, just like people on almost every region of Spain have different accents.89.128.223.165 (talk) 22:16, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Also from Spain...let's see, Andalusian is just spanish, but with phonetical differences due to the historical evolution of the language in this place. As Spanish Wikipedia says: "El andaluz[1] es una variedad o dialecto[2] de la lengua española que se habla en Andalucía" "Andalusian is a variety or dialect of Spanish language that is spoken in Ansalusia" it just depends of the criteria we can use to denominate it —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.184.106.116 (talk) 01:37, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GDP figures

The following sentence 'As of 2006, absolute GDP was valued at $1.084 trillion according to the CIA Factbook' is taking out of context and gives an outsider the idea that Spain is a poor or small country. Just because CIA do not update their data (they still maintain that Spanish' GDP per capita is 80% of the 4 largest European nations when according to Eurostat it has already surpassed Italy's GDP per capita in 2006) does not mean wiki shouldn't. Spain's GDP for 2006 was confirmed by the IMF, Eurostat and the Spanish authorities to be 980 BILLIONS OF EUROS. With a Euro at about 1.45 dollars over the last number months in 2007 it is clear that this section needs to be updated. Please do so. Charlygc (talk) 11:57, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

CIA has just updated their data with the 2007 figures - gives Spain an absolute GDP of $1.365 trillion and a per capita of $33.700. According to them France has 33.800 per capita (just like Japan) and Italy $31.000. So I suggest someone updates the whole economy section which hasn't been changed for years and it is clearly out-of-date. Thanks. Charlygc (talk) 11:57, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Economy: include wine and tourism?

The turism figures for 2007 have just been released - Spain received 60 M visitors that spent 46 Billion Euros. That places 2nd in the world only behind France in number of visitors and in terms of revenue (only behind the States). Please include this there. Charlygc (talk) 11:59, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] In Search Of . . . Citations for the Pre-History sub-section

As we move through this article sub-section by sub-section and upgrade it to GA (and hopefully FA) status, we are currently in search of citations/footnotes to support the following elements in the Pre-History sub-section:

  • Date of arrival and direction of arrival of early modern humans in Spain
  • Date of arrival and culture of Iberians
  • Date of arrival and culture of Celts
  • Date of arrival and culture of other early peoples
  • Scholarly information about Tartessos (dates, location, culture)
  • Date of arrival and culture about Phoenicians and Greek colonizers
  • Date of arrival and events regarding Carthaginian
  • Date of arrival and events regarding Carthaginian/Roman interactions

if you have websites, books, articles to add as a footnote, please do so! EspanaViva 16:58, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

It was quite a fast search, but here's what I got:
  • Date of arrival and direction of arrival of early modern humans in Spain: "Pero ahora se sabe que el verdadero antepasado común de los neandertales en Europa y del Homo sapiens en África, no era el Homo ergaster, sino que salió del continente africano durante el Pleistoceno Inferior, pobló Europa hace más de 780.000 años, vivió en Atapuerca y fue descubierto en 1994 en el nivel TD-6 de Gran Dolina. Este primer europeo recibe desde entonces el nombre de Homo antecessor, “el explorador”." Source: [[1]]
  • Date of arrival and culture of Iberians: "A partir del siglo V a.C. comienza a desarrollarse la cultura íbera en el sector oriental peninsular". Source: [[2]]. And: "Estos contactos culturales y comerciales permiten el desarrollo del sustrato indígena dando origen a un periodo orientalizante (s. VIII-VI a.C.) que determinará la aparición de la cultura ibérica a finales del s. VI a.C.". Source: [[3]]. And: "Podemos hablar de una etnia heterogénea que formó un mismo pueblo de una forma progresiva: del 750 al 550 a.C. es un periodo pre-ibérico; del 550 a.C al S.V es el ibérico antiguo. El ibérico pleno alcanza del S.V hasta la entrada de los romanos." Source: [[4]]
  • Date of arrival and culture of Celts: "En Heródoto, autor del siglo V antes de Cristo, se encuentran las referencias más antiguas sobre los celtas." Source: [[5]]
  • Scholarly information about Tartessos (dates, location, culture): "Hace cerca de 3.000 años el suroeste de España fue habitado por una cultura cuya grandeza no fue igualada en mucho tiempo. Gracias a la explotación de minas de oro y plata y a su comercio con los fenicios, el pueblo tartésico alcanzó un grado de riqueza y desarrollo admirado por los historiadores griegos." Sources: [[6]], [[7]] and Location: [[8]]

Regards, Maurice27 20:00, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

¡Gracias, Maurice! ¿pero, tiene algunos en inglés? (have any in English?) EspanaViva 20:26, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I tried... But couldn't find anything. :( Maurice27 21:08, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jewish communities

Jews never part of nostalgia in Spain have always been in Spain and are as Spanish as catholics. The Jewish population is around 35,000.Your article talks about jews as different ,not normal spain people ,immigrants who entered long ago to mix-in with regular real spanish blood.This is a common thread mistake in most wikipedia articles. The Federation of Israelite Communities of Spain currently consists of thirteen traditional and Orthodox communities, the largest of which are located in Madrid, Barcelona and on the Costa del Sol (Málaga) and in Murcia. There are also groups of Conservative Jews and associations of secular Jews. In Barcelona, a Reform community, the Progressive Jewish Community Atid (Future) of Catalonia, is active.Today many jews move to Spain to retire from the colder northern community countries or come to spain to raise children.Polaris World and Tramplin Hills in Murcia are examples of such communities with growing Jewish population. raquel samper directora comunidadjudia murcia —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jewish spain (talk • contribs) 09:44, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

The Jewish Community, madrid toledo barcelona murcia accounts for less than 1 percent of total population.however it is the third fastest growing after africans and british. Spain is the retirement capitol of the EC nowadays and many jews from the north are moving here to retire or raise kids. synagoges centers even schools are opening. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.121.4.98 (talk) 21:27, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Languages spoken in Spain

Althought Spain has many diffrent dialects, it is said that they should probably just learn English.

The Basque is co-official in northern Navarre. The bable (asturian) is protected by the Asturias' Autonomie Statut.

The article states:
There are also some other surviving Romance minority languages such as Asturian / Leonese or the Aragonese or fabla. Unlike Catalan, Galician, and Basque, these do not have any official status due to their very small numbers and the absence of a written tradition.
This is a rather subjective appreciation, showing a linguistic prejudice. While it is true that Asturian and Aragonese are spoken (nowadays) by less people, and that their written tradition is not outstanding or comparable to that of the other languages (but there is a written tradition!, stating there's an absence of it has clearly been said by someone who knows little of those two languages), it is also true that those factors are not the real cause, as Aranese is indeed co-official and it has even fewer speakers than Aragonese (about 4,000). The truth is that Asturian and Aragonese, due to its historical lack of social prestige in the last five centuries, had come to be wrongly regarded as mere Spanish dialects, and it was still so in the 70's. In fact, many Spaniards are still today unaware of them being languages apart from Spanish. That is the main reason, although things started to change some years ago and the Statutes of Asturias and Aragon kind of protect their languages and quite a few associations demand that they are co-official too in the areas where they are spoken, something that could well happen in five or ten years. If that is not so, Aragonese will probably be the first Romance language in Spain to disappear, as there are very few children who speak the language. Purplefire 22:47, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

There are 4 majority languages in Spain. The spanish is the oficial language, but it has a catalan leanguage spoken in Catalonia, Valencia and Majorca Islands (about 10 milion people), Euskera wich is spoken in Basque Country, and Galician wich is spoken in Galicia. Please, correct this part, it's a silly mistake. In murcia in the south we speak Panocho as well as castellano spanish.Panocho is a kind of spanish used in the murcia orchard and today continues in use although it is considered local.Otherwise Murcianos speak a spanish with their local accent which is considered quite good by the Instituto Cervantes. comunidad judia murcia —Preceding unsigned comment added by Comunidad judia murcia (talk • contribs) 17:53, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

[edit] Navarre

The Basque language has a rather odd status in Navarre: it is "official" in the basque-speaking and the so-called "mixed" regions, but not in the non-basque areas. However, the Spanish regulations on "Common Administrative Procedures" (Procedimiento Administrativo Común), concerning citizens' relations with the public administrations, recognises their right to use the languages official within the autonomous communities in which they are recognised as such, and establishes that procedures in which intervenes the General Administration of the State (Administración General del Estado), at offices in the community concerned, shall be processed in the official language of choice of the citizen (in the case of Navarre, either Spanish or Basque), as per their language rights. See the Boletín Oficial de Navarra of 12 February 2003.
--YuriBCN 12:16, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Environmental Issues of Spain

In this article I have not seen anything relating to Spain's stance on the environment, global warming, and so on. Is there anything we can add? Blahmaster 17:40, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] POBLATION

POPULATION & RELIGION

It is mathematically impossible for all three of these statements from the article on Spain to be true simultaneously:

In 2007 Spain officially reached 45.2 million people

About 76% of Spaniards identify themselves as Catholics, about 2% identify with another religious faith,

The recent waves of immigration have led to an increasing number of Muslims, who have about 1 million members. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.66.169.240 (talk) 06:21, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

NEW INFORMATION Andalucía 8.039.399 Cataluña 7.197.174 Comunidad de Madrid 6.061.680 Comunidad Valenciana 4.874.811 Galicia 2.771.341 Castilla y León 2.525.157 P.Vasco 2.141.116 Islas Canarias 2.020.947 Castilla La Mancha 1.975.179 Región de Murcia 1.391.147 Aragón 1.295.215 Extremadura 1.088.728 Principado de Asturias 1.074.632 Islas Baleares 1.029.139 Comunidad Foral de Navarra 605.022 Cantabria 572.503 La Rioja 308.566 Ceuta 76.343 Melilla 68.795 TOTAL: 45.116.894

[edit] Spanish identity

Why is it stated that Spain has not got a specific identity? Years of common history and a glorious past have resulted in a strong identity feeling among the Spanish population. I know it, and I think I have the right to say it, because I am Spanish, as you would have noticed due to my poor English level. I would like that false statement to be changed. Thank you.

What does a sentence like 'Spain has a specific identity' mean? I tell you: it means nothing. It does not add any content to the article and it might violate the neutrality policy of wikipedia. ~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.38.201.132 (talk) 16:06, August 25, 2007 (UTC)

I´m Spanish and I think that this sentence ("is a country formed by several nations located") is stupid. Spain IS a nation itself. There are some secessionist sensibilities in Catalonia and Euskadi, but this doesn´t determinate Spain as a fist of countries without any kind of national personality. With that point of view, France, Russia or United Kingdom are not countries, because they also holds independentist movements inside their frontiers. It must be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.235.177.242 (talk) 15:21, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Spain is one of the most clear specific national entities in Europe as many centuries of common history from all of its territories can atest. To deny the spanish identity would be to violate the neutrality policy of Wikipedia, as the growth of internal separatisms is just nowadays trying to put in doubt Spain's history and identity. Centuries of literature talking about Spanish cultural identity can't be put aside by this trend. Gallando 02:04, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh, come on, you can't be serious. People from northern Spain (Galicia, Asturias, etc) are completely different from people from southern Spain (Andalucia, Murcia, etc). I have lived in Asturias, Alicante and Salamanca and I can tell you they are worlds apart.89.128.223.165 (talk) 22:28, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh, come on, you can't be serious. Have you lived anywhere else than in Spain? That would be galaxies apart, by your measures. Yes, we are different, and therein lies part of our "glory". E pluribus unum and In varietate concordia are the mottos of the US and the EU, but they could as well be a definition of the concept of a Spanish nation. Yes, plural. Yes, one. Hmmm... I'd better diverge from this argument, for this is starting to look theological. What I mean is that, of course, full-fledged centralism has no place in a country like Spain, where we reckon our very identity has arisen from a lot of different peoples (Romans, Visigoths, Muslims, etc.), but one of today's biggest threats to the prosperity of the whole of Spain and their autonomous communities in particular is the stinking, 19th century, race-and-language based nationalism. And I'm not talking just about the terrorist group ETA which speaks of "the occupant Spanish State" and dares to call us fascists while simply killing _any_ innocent not agreeing with them. I'm also talking about (truly) fascistoid nationalist parties, which will try anything short of banning the Spanish (Castilian) language to perform a bloodless ethnic cleansing in "their" territories. Sigh Habbit (talk) 18:40, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

So what? People from northern France (Normandie e.g) are completely different from people from southern France (Marseille e.g), as people from northern Italy (Milano e.g) are completely different from people from southern Italy (Napoli e.g). And i can't see that statement being thrown when talking about France or Italy concept of nation... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.77.128.4 (talk) 13:00, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Seen from the fact that the question of national identity is used as a political weapon in all elections in Spain, I do believe that it is relevant. That is what probably makes a difference between the Spanish case and the French and Italian situation. However, the part of

("nationalities", a carefully chosen word in order to avoid the more politically charged "nations")

seems to be more an opinion than a fact. I may agree with it, but I don't think it reaches the level of fact. I think it should either present refferences or be removed. --Suzusan (talk) 11:08, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lame Introduction

why the heck is the intro paragraphs for spain so lame compared to the UK, Italy, america, etc. its so generic. How about listing how it was a major global power during the age of discovery and its contributions in the modern world? doesnt have to be long but right now its just lame. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.238.151.44 (talk) 04:29, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

If you want I could type it out. What do you guys say? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.252.247.29 (talk) 22:46, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Speaking for myself I prefer the current low key approach. The summary at the beginning of the mini history here gives readers enough of an idea of the country's very important and dramatic history. No need to shove it in their faces in the opening paragaraphs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.84.95.138 (talk) 11:49, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wrong Battle Name

The battle that stopped the Muslims was the Battle of Tours, not the Battle of Poitiers. Poitiers was a battle in the Hundred Years' War between England and France; the English defeated the French at Poitiers almost 600 years after the Franks defeated the Muslims at Tours. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.210.68.85 (talk) 21:28, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] False

In the text someone has writen "is a country formed by several nations located" this is not true, and the spanish don't feel it. Anyway the Constitution is explicit. I can not understand how this could be wrote.--Usuntil 12:53, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

It was user Crònica who did that [9]. I also think that clause should be removed. Anna Lincoln 14:39, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

I´m Spanish and I think that this sentence ("is a country formed by several nations located") is stupid. Spain IS a nation itself. There are some secessionist sensibilities in Catalonia and Euskadi, but this doesn´t determinate Spain as a fist of countries without any kind of national personality. With that point of view, France, Russia or United Kingdom are not countries, because they also holds independentist movements inside their frontiers. It must be removed.

I´m Spanish too and I agree with you, but is necessary to make a little specificacion; the Constitution of 1978 (actualy our Costitution) includes this text: "La Constitución se fundamenta en la indisoluble unidad de la Nación española, patria común e indivisible de todos los españoles, y reconoce y garantiza el derecho a la autonomía de las nacionalidades y regiones que la integran y la solidaridad entre todas ellas." ( The Constitution is based on the indissoluble unity of the Spanish Nation, common and indivisible homeland of all Spaniards, and recognizes and guarantees the right to autonomy of the nationalities and regions belonging and solidarity among all of them.). Similarly, in the section devoted to the autonomies spoke of "historic nationalities" (Galicia, the Basque Country, Catalonia and Andalusia, if I am not mistaken), which agreed to autonomy in a different way to that of the rest of the communities. I hope I have clarified this difficult conflict and apologize for my poor English. LasMatas01 13:38, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm also Spanish, and I'm agree with both you, however, i think a nation is a form of self-defined cultural and social community. It's true that Catalans, Basques, Galicians and Castillians are not the same (they have different history and languages), but they are part of the same country, Spain is plural —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.184.106.116 (talk) 01:41, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bullfighting is not a sport

Please, review the Sports section because "Bullfighting" is not an sport (actually, I think it is the most horrible, wild and shameful image we can offer to the rest of the world). And if you want references to popular sports in Spain, please include Basketball, Handball and Formula 1, where Spain is the worldchampion. Diegodr 14:23, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

i like spain =) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.162.28.202 (talk) 15:45, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Most of spanish young people are against bullfighting and it's even been banned on some regions. 89.128.223.165 (talk) 22:32, 27 March 2008 (UTC) In Murcia we invite everyone tto our bullfight and to eat the bulls tail after. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Comunidad judia murcia (talk • contribs) 17:55, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Spain GDP Per Capita

"However, Spain was recently ranked 13th in the European Union and 28th in the world in terms of GDP per capita.[3]"

This statement in the first section is taken out of context and makes Spain seem a poor country to a person uninformed of global macroeconomics.Drewbie500 09:45, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Agree - Spain has recently (2006 figures) surpassed Italy in GDP per capita according to Eurostat and CIA using the latest estimates for 2007. For the same reason the comment about Spain's GDP per capita trailing behind the G7 nations is no longer true Charlygc (talk) 12:01, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Coat of Arms

What's going on with the coat of arms' image?? - One user is putting a PNG which is 90 KB of size and with big resolution [10] - Other user is putting a SVG which is 384 KB and 200x200 by default [11]

They are both identical!!!!!! Let's leave the smaller filesize one (which is nonetheless the one with bigger resolution when clicked)

I'll undo any changes unless a good reason is commented here before!

Gallando (talk) 23:30, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

SVG files are generally preferred in Wikipedia as they are vector images and have "infinite resolution". The CoAs of other countries also tend to be in this format. --SMP - talk (en) - talk (ca) 12:13, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Juan Carlos I

Is there a reason the king is referred to as Juan Carlos I, and not just Juan Carlos? The official website refers to him as el Rey Don Juan Carlos, without the "I". Also, other articles such as on Queen Victoria don't insert the "I". This is a question that has been raised on the Juan Carlos Talk Page if anyone has some thoughts or input. I thought I would bring it up here, since any change would involve editing this article as well. --Anietor (talk) 23:51, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Fully agree. General usage on monarchs dictates that the ordinal should be used if there is more than one monarch in the line with the same name. Thus, Elisabeth of England was only Elisabeth I after Elisabeth II came to the throne. Another example is Queen Anne, who is NOT referred to as Anne I. --YuriBCN 13:37, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Spain public health system

23.01.2008 Hello, There is nothing in the Spain article on how is organized the public health system. I have heard that it is managed regionaly, but don't know more on the subject. Could someone give me more information? Thanks! Guilounette —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.157.202.5 (talk) 10:09, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Spain position by size

Spain is the fourth country by size in Europe, not the second. The order is Russia, Ukraine, France, Spain.

Can someone actualize this information.--147.72.234.5 (talk) 14:38, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Spain economy

I think Spain economy is understimated in the article. It has been called latrely a success story.

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/summary_0199-5461495_ITM

It has already surpass Italy in percaita incomeand France and Germany are next in line. Chloe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.175.249.250 (talk) 10:14, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Agree - The whole economy article is obsolete and needs to be fully updated. It does not mention anything about big Spanish companies and it should. Here's a hint - Santander is the 8th biggest bank in the world, Telefonica the 2nd biggest telecomunication company in the world, Iberdrola is the leading clean (renewal) energy company in the world, Inditex is a world-class fashion company, Spain is home to the biggest construction conglomerates in Europe, etc The list goes on. Someone familiarized with the Spanish economy should update this. Thanks, Charlygc (talk) 12:02, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Official name

Traditionally, and in reference to its form of government, Spain is called "Reino de España" both in an outside Spain. However, I cannot find any legal document that specifies this denomination as official. "Reino de España" does not appear anywhere in the constitution [12] (the term Estado español appears numerous times, whereas the term Nación española only occasionally). Not even, as it is usual in passports, does the name appear as such in the Spanish passport [13]. I have found some international agreement that use the term "Reino de España" [14] (Usage is one thing, official declaration of the toponymy is another thing). The question, open to discussion is, what constitutes an official denomination? If the denomination is not used in the constitution of the country, is it "official"? --the Dúnadan 00:07, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Absolutly official! [15].

One is the conventional short form (name of the country), the other one is the conventional long form (Form of government of the country). "La denominación correspondiente a la forma o modelo de gobierno suele incluso incorporarse al nombre o denominación oficial del estado, por ejemplo: República Argentina, Estados Unidos Mexicanos, Reino de España, Federación Rusa o Gran Jamahiriya Árabe Libia Popular y Socialista. Sólo hay dieciocho países que no lo hacen así, por ejemplo: Jamaica, mientras que once sólo indican que son "estados". La forma más común es "república", con 132 casos de muy distinto tipo. Las monarquías son 33 (18 de ellas "reinos")(es-wiki)".

The European Union states [16]:

  • Official title or short name?

The long form (official title) is used when the State is targeted as a legal entity:

"This Decision is addressed to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". "The French Republic is authorised to ..."

NB:If the recurrence of the name of a State in the text leads to a preference for using the short form, it can be introduced with the phrase ‘hereinafter referred to as ...’.

  • The short form (short name) is used when the State is referred to geographically or economically:

"Workers residing in France". "Exports from Greece ..."

So, may I end up saying that it is all about good and old protocol. Cheers. --MauritiusXXVII (Aut Doce, Aut Disce, Aut Discede!) 13:52, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

No, Maurice, neither the CIA, nor the European Union, nor the Spanish Wikipedia are primary sources. You are citing tertiary sources who do not have any juridical authority in Spain. I repeat, that denomination does not appear anywhere in the constitution. I ask again, does anyone know of a law (i.e. de jure) that stipulates that the official name of Spain is "Reino de España" or is it more a de facto stipulation based, of course, on its form of government. (Please do not cite encyclopedias, Wikipedias or international organizations). --the Dúnadan 16:29, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Interesting to note, let me translate one of your sources:
"Denomination of the Spanish State in international agreements...
"The convenience of unifying criteria on the correct form of referring to our country in the text of international treaties that Spain subscribes has motivated a consultation from this Department to the State Council [...] answering the following:
"That the denominations "Spain" and "Kingdom of Spain" are equally admissible to refer to the Spanish State in all international treaties it be part of, even though, the second has a more individualizing entity [sic] [...] in consequence in international treaties or other agreements negotiated as of this date, there cannot be any other denomination but "Spain" or "Kingdom of Spain" avoiding formulas such as "Government of Spain" or "Government of the Kingdom of Spain" and other incorrect [formulas]." (end of quote, bold mine).
What do you guys think of this law? As far as I can tell, and only in international treaties, both "Spain" and "Kingdom of Spain" are "admissible" (official?). Should we change the introduction of the article to say that "Spain" (officially in international treaties either as Spain or Kingdom of Spain)?
--the Dúnadan 16:35, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Sincerely Dunadan, if you are getting bored, try to find something else to entertain you! But quit trying to add such useless proposals. The constitution of Spain does not have EVERYTHING in it. Thank God you are not interested in UK's politics... Why don't you also propose the same thing for France? It's constitution does not mention anywhere "French Republic" neither [17]. The conventional long form of a country's name is the official name recognised by the United Nations when it becomes a member. You also have a reference from the Spanish ministry of foreign affairs... What more do you want? --MauritiusXXVII (Aut Doce, Aut Disce, Aut Discede!) 00:18, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Maurice, why do you have to resort to insults? Whatever the Constitution of France says or does not say, is a matter that must be discussed in France. However, the Spanish constitution does not declare any "official name", and the source you provided, which you must have read, states, very, very, clearly, and without the shadow of a doubt that in international treaties the terms "Spain" and "Spanish Kingdom" are equally valid. I am using the same reference, the Spanish ministry of foreign affairs (I don't know why you put it in bold letters, but since you did, I did too =P). Does any other user want to offer his/her opinion on this matter? --the Dúnadan 01:17, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
That's incredible... "resort to insults?"... For God's Sake, Where did I insult you? --MauritiusXXVII (Aut Doce, Aut Disce, Aut Discede!) 06:14, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Read for yourself, what you yourself write. I insist also that you read the constitution and the source you provided. Any other user has any opinion on this matter, or should I proceed? --the Dúnadan 00:20, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] POLITICS

The facts about the manifestations in front of the headquaters of politic party PP after the attempt in 11th March is a total proved thing, but nobody has been able to show any relationship between this and the PSOE, even the Spanish Courts which has taken this subject in the last years, so it can be taken like an unbiased information. What are the Spanish courts? The Senate, the Parliament and the Congress, all together —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.225.9.170 (talk) 14:55, 2 October 2007 (UTC) The Spanish Courts are two: The Senate and The Congress. It could be similar to UK Courts. The Lord's One is the Senate, and the Common's One the Congress, Although that they don't have the same rights, of course. Remember that here in Spain we use roman right, and not common laws. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.8.123.205 (talk) 11:18, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] POPULATION

According to the article in Spanish Wikipedia, the population of Spain is nearly 45 millions based in Spanish Government's 2006 census. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.11.1.172 (talk) 16:08, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 2 things

a) Under the summary of Spain's history, the link on 'Muslim rulers' leads to a disambiguation page. In any case, a link for 'Muslim rulers' is a bit vague and random considering that there have been thousands of Muslim rulers. So maybe the link should be removed or replaced with something a more relevant; for example, the Abbasids. or whatever!

b) is this page locked, because it doesn't have an 'edit this page' or a lock in the corner —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shj95 (talk • contribs) 13:11, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The .cat domain

The .cat domain is also used in the Autonomous Comunity of Balearic Islands, because it is a language domain (not means "catalonia" but "catalan").--83.33.229.55 (talk) 13:20, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

It shouldn't appear as Spanish domain, because is not a "territorial" domain, but a "cultural" domain, so it also belongs to Andorra and all the calatan speakers around the world. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.36.86.77 (talk) 16:25, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Nation Master's list by economic importance

In the article "International rankings" of Spain says that "Nation Master's list by economic importance: Rank 9 of 25 countries, only surpassed by G-8 members". Actually Spain is the 8th in this ranking, over Canada. The G-8 doesn't exist, they are the G-7 plus Russia, that it is in the eleventh position in the ranking and only go to the G-7 like observer for their global importance. LasMatas01 14:17, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] International rankings

It states in the article; Reporters Without Borders world-wide press freedom index 2002: Rank 40 out of 139 countries.[79]

That might be correct, but in the 2007 survey Spain is ranked 33 out of 169 countries. link: http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=24025

I cant edit the article, so if some of you would be so kind to make an update I would greatly appreciate it! Pereli (talk) 08:38, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] jews in spain

Firstly jews have always been a part of Spain as said our spanish king [18] Jews are not nostalgia in spain . Additional Jewish emigration to Spain in more recent times is primarily the result of four events: after the 19th century, some Jews established themselves in Spain as a result of migration from what was formerly Spanish Morocco, the flight of Jews escaping from Nazi repression, immigration from Argentina. Spanish law allows Sephardi Jews to claim Spanish citizenship.Finally Spain is seen by northern european community members as a retirement place and as a warm place to raise young families. Many thousands of families have immigrated from the north to southern spain(murcia) and among these thousands have been hundreds of jewish families ..to retire and or to raise children. This is a modern phenomenon and is seen in murcia spain in both polaris world and trampolin hills.[19] you accept expelling jews converting jews but not killing the jews while in fact almost 100000 jews were killed in those days. raquel samper comunidadjudia murcia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.38.17.233 (talk) 21:39, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Education system

Under economy " ... an education system which OECD reports place among the poorest for developed countries, together with the United States and UK.[54]" I wonder if the comparisons are very sensible. The UK page reports the UK's education system as being the 14th best in the world, well above the average for the OECD. My knowledge of international comparisons (the PISA studies for example) tends to show the UK as doing rather well - at least as well as the average of the obvious comparison countries, Germany, France, Italy. The source cited here does not support the claim either. It would be inclined to scrap the comparison, unless someone knows of information that I don't. 89.49.213.51 (talk) 23:42, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Spain Jews Monorities not to be confused with immigrants

Jews never part of nostalgia in Spain have always been in Spain and are as Spanish as catholics.Jews are a minority but not immigrants,as indians are a minority in the usa but not immigrants. The Jewish population is around 35,000.Your article talks about jews as different ,not regular spain people ,immigrants who entered so long ago to mix-in with regular real spanish blood.This is a common thread mistake . The Federation of Israelite Communities of Spain currently consists of thirteen traditional and Orthodox communities, the largest of which are located in Madrid, Barcelona and on the Costa del Sol (Málaga) and in Murcia. There are also groups of Conservative Jews and associations of secular Jews. In Barcelona, a Reform community, the Progressive Jewish Community Atid (Future) of Catalonia, is active.Today many jews move to Spain to retire from the colder northern community countries or come to spain to raise children.Polaris World and Tramplin Hills in Murcia are examples of such communities with growing Jewish population. raquel samper directora comunidadjudia murcia —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jewish spain (talk • contribs) 09:44, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Languages

Spanish is the only official language of the country according to the 1978 constitution. The other languages are only co-official in their respective communities. Why has the article been changed? there was a reference to this before (reference is still on main page as number 2 actually) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.75.128.6 (talk) 11:24, 14 April 2008 (UTC) http://vector-images.com/image.php?epsid=422 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.243.63.194 (talk) 17:00, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

As it is mentioned before, the article 2.1 of the 1978 Constitution states that "Castilian is the official Spanish language in the State". Then, the article 2.2 states that "The rest of Spanish languages will be official in their Constituent Communities as it will be stated in their Regional Constitutions" (Regional constitution is a free translation for Estatuto). That is later explained in <8.2. Languages>. I've noticed other entries in wikipedia include other languages as "regional languages" (i.e. India or Pakistan). That could be a solution to substitute that footnote nr 2 and it would leave the Country Summary like: Official languages: Spanish; Regional languages: Aranese, Basque, Catalan/Valentian, Galician.Suzusan (talk) 10:48, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] President or Prime Minister?

Under the Politics heading, the article says "President of the Government: José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero, elected 14 March 2004." Under the picture of (what I assume is) him, caption says "José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero, Prime Minister of Spain." So what is he? Is he a president or is he a prime minister? I'd really like to know, and I'm sure others would, too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JDCAce (talk • contribs) 10:30, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Of course, Prime Minister is an anglo-centric term. It's used here for letting know the real meaning of the term "Presidente del Gobierno" as it's not a President of a Republic, and, therefore, head of state. There is not a prime minister in spain, as there's no government president (afaik) in the UK.

--Repking (talk) 23:16, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Spanish economy

The article mentions the 9th potision in the economy section for the Spanish economy.In fact, according to the International Monetary Fundand and the CIA Fact Book, it is the 8th in 2007, over Canada. Only the World Bank places it 9th below Canada in 2006, so the 8th position shoudl be stated, rather than the 9th. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29 Jan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.175.249.250 (talk) 10:15, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 9th or 8th economy in the world?

Hi evreybody. I would to know what is really the position to spain in the global economic world, because, in the top of the article, says that spain is the eight economy in the world, but, in the section named economy of spain says that the position is 9th... then... Wich is the correct sentence? thanks and sorry by my poor english lol, ciao! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.27.17.46 (talk) 18:52, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Look at the section above. It is the 8th according to 2007 estimates at Current Exchange Rates. It should corrected to 8th in all cases. Jan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.175.249.250 (talk) 11:09, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

I've made the change to the part that still stated ninth. In future, anyone can correct these if they're obvious errors without having to discuss them on the talk page. Kman543210 (talk) 11:21, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Aranese as Recognised regional languages

I know Aranese has the status of being co-official in Catalonia... But does it have the same status status of recognized language nationwide? I've never heard of the spanish parliament giving it to this language. If so, Aranese should be erased from this section in "Spain"'s article.

As far as I'm concerned, in the eyes of the Spanish government, Aranese is not (much) different from, let's say, Asturian, which also has some kind of protection under the Asturian Autonomous Statute legislation.

Anyone has a clue? --MauritiusXXVII (Aut Doce, Aut Disce, Aut Discede!) 12:18, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I can't speak to "in the eyes of the Spanish government", but I believe this part of the info box was added to recognize the languages that were given official status in each region. The difference between Aranese and Asturian is that the Catalonian government has given Aranese co-official status, but the Asturian government has not given Asturian co-official status. Neither is as widely spoken as Catalan or Basque in their respective regions. I think in this case we should add what has been made co-official rather than deciding what languages are more important. Kman543210 (talk) 12:27, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
I can't see what can be the difference "in the eyes of Spanish government". As far as I know, all the languages mentioned in the box have the same status: languages which are co-official in some autonomous community. Right? --Carles Noguera (talk) 08:07, 10 June 2008 (UTC)