Talk:Spades

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Shouldn't Spades_(game) be broken into its own page?

A user seems to be persistently adding content concerning Internet play and plugging a particular book. This user clearly has very strong opinions about spades and spades players. This content is blatantly inappropriate for Wikipedia. This is not just my opinion, since the changes in question have been reverted many times by many people.

To that user, I would ask that prior to reintroducing your changes, please discuss and defend your changes here so that a consensus can be reached.

Critique of the disputed content:

"Most online spaders are not good, think they are good, and are not willing to learn."

Can you imagine this in a printed encyclopedia? This is your opinion of other people. This is a put down. It is not an undisputed fact. Even if it were an undisputed fact it would not belong in an encyclopedia entry about Spades.

"Steve Fleishman changed the Spades world when he released the first of his two books"

He may have changed YOUR world.

"It introduced players to Spades the way it should be played."

It is not an encyclopedia's job to tell people how they should live their life or play their games.

"Serious players are advised to visit Fleishman's website and enjoy the plethora of free information available."

And you claim this is not a plug?!?

Please, please read the section "Wikipedia is not a propaganda machine" at this page.

Contents

[edit] Karmafist's 2 cents regarding Spades

It's not particularly encyclopedic, but this is a talk page, so I figured I'd add my perceptions and rules from playing Spades here.

  • Bidding Nil is a risk, but it's a risk that has to be taken when it can be taken.

Don't bid nil if...

    • You have more than 2 spades or a spade face card
    • It's the first hand and you have any face cards(getting behind early is bad)
    • If you have more than 5-7 face cards total
    • If you're way ahead and it's not almost definate

Do bid nil if...

    • You have no face cards at all
    • You're behind by more than 200
    • Your partner bids high(6 or more)
  • Bags are bad if you get two or three per hand, but no big deal if you get one. Remember, bags are cumulative per partners.
  • When bidding, I usually give this value to my cards in total
    • 1 trick for each spade face card
    • 1 trick for each spade when I have a doubleton or less in a suit
    • 1-2 tricks if I have more than 5 spades
    • 1 trick per ace
    • 1/4-1/2 trick per non-spade face card, depending on the situation
  • Know how your partner plays, and then change how you play to react. If they're aggressive, go more cautious. If they're cautious, go more aggressive. You're playing your partner's tendancies as much as your opponents.
  • When trying to break a nil, do so usually on the second or third trick of each suit. The first trick is usually easy to break, and by the fourth, the niller is usually out of that suit or the covering partner has reached into spades. Keep track of where the niller and partner is weak and strong! When covering, remember the reverse, and try to get rid of your low cards as soon as possible once you know your partner is safe.

[edit] Slang

There should be a section on slang terms commonly used, such as "bumping," and "book" instead of "trick."

[edit] Basic Game Play Clarification

I know nothing of spades. I didn't understand the sentence "There is a variation where the object is not to lose - the loser having an amusing penalty." Would this be a specific "amusing" penalty, or is it a penalty agreed upon before game play starts that tends to be amusing? I tried to find this defined elsewhere in the article and was unsuccessful. It would be helpful to clarify the sentence with additional information Gramby 05:12, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Revisions & Restructuring

I love playing Spades and I would love to take part in a major restructuring of this Spades page. It seems as though there is a lot of information on this page, but the current layout leaves something to be desired. How do all of you feel about this idea? Iheartcorruption 04:40, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree that this page is in serious need of restructuring. It is not at all easy to read for someone who does not know the game and is just trying to figure out the basic rules. All of the lists of variations in bidding, scoring, game play and so on really break up the flow of the article. Perhaps a better way of structuring the article would be to completely describe the basic rules, and then have a separate section on variants. this web site does approximately that, and is in my opinion much more comprehensible than this article. Zoicon5 22:56, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
This sounds like a great plan, and following the layout of the page you linked to seems like an excellent idea. I propose

(1) Introduction (2) History (3) Gameplay (4) Scoring (5) Strategy (6) Variations

Ill look it over and come up with something, and anyone else that has suggestions for the structure should speak up Iheartcorruption 09:43, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
I agree. The page is an unusable mess at present. What it needs most is a coherent account of the rules of one version of the game, without advice on strategy, without descriptions of variants, and without mention of etiquette. Once the reader has some idea what the rules are, these subsidiary things can follow; but while he can't obtain even that, they are useless. Maproom (talk) 13:00, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. Jon (talk) 17:35, 9 May 2008 (UTC)