Talk:Space Western

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[edit] Alternate term

I always thought of the genre as "Space Cowboy" myself. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 23:42, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Weird West

It would probably also be useful to merge or at least link this article to weird west.

[edit] Backdrop Section

The section discussing the western as backdrop contains only sritique of the idea. While this information should be part of the section the more basic information is missing. How is the setting established? What themes, cliches, etc. do authors draw from the western genre? Why have authors chosen to use a western motif in outer space?

[edit] Why is Wild ARMS here?

According to the "Differences" section:

Space western differs from Western science fiction in that it has Western frontier themes in an Outer space setting rather than Science fiction themes in a Western setting.

The Wild ARMs series already appears under Science fiction Western, and that is consistent with the explanation of the difference.

Laserion 01:35, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Huh? Wild ARMs has Western themes in an outer space setting; therefore it is a "space Western" and belongs here. Ken Arromdee 20:10, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] can we kill the merge tags?

  • I think that, with the "differences" sections firmly in place, it's pretty easy to see that these are not the same thing. Can we get rid of the tags? They aren't appropriate. - Che Nuevara 17:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
    • I agree --Cybersavior 23:54, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
      • Thirded. hateless 17:52, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Excellent. Taking action :) - Che Nuevara 17:55, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Any sources?

Has anyone bothered to see when and how the term originated? Or who, if anyone, uses it? The OED "Science Fiction Citations" site doesn't include the term. Google returns some hits, but not of the term as a genre descriptor used by commentators or scholars. Fan usage isn't enough--it needs to be a live term in the published record. Without something along these lines, it looks like a non-notable or non-standard term, and the material here is original research. RLetson 05:32, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree. It seems like a neologism to me.SharkD 03:21, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Oddworld?

Pardon me for saying so (I havn't played the game in a long time), but I don't see why Oddworld:Stranger's Wrath is on here. It doesn't even take place in space! I mean, I could see how it's a Western, but Space Western is a whole different story...Beep Beep Honk Honk 02:50, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Knights of Cydonia

Should the "Knights of Cydonia" music video be included in this article? StevePrutz 19:57, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Examples

Should ANIME be its own section under the Examples area? I think not. They need to be distributed under Films and TV. StevePrutz 17:04, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Good point. - Che Nuevara 20:43, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
I disagree. I think you should leave it as it is. SharkD 00:50, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
As concerns English-speaking audiences, anime is not really a medium. - Che Nuevara 19:09, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trigun

Can we get the issue of Trigun sorted out? It looks to me like this is a fairly good example of a Science fiction Western, i.e., "a work of fiction which has elements of science fiction in a Western setting." But, I see no indication that it is a Space Western. I would like to have the matter settled so that people will stop adding it to the article. Anyone with thoughts? ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 15:54, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Although I'm only tangentially familiar with the series, it seems to me that the series has nothing to do with space -- there is no space travel and the series takes place entirely on one planet. Thus it is not in a "space setting". It is in a "Western setting", a Western-esque planet which just so happens to not be called Earth, but Gunsmoke. (For all we know, it could even be a post-Apocalyptic Earth, right?) So I agree with RepublicanJacobite that it's clearly a Western SciFi and not a Space Western. - Revolving Bugbear 17:30, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Without spoiling things too badly, the planet Trigun takes place on is not earth, and earth exists (or existed) in the Trigun universe. Humans travelled to Gunsmoke by space travel. The problem here is that (despite what the Wikipedia articles say) the definitions of space western and science fiction western are not clearly mutually exclusive. Space western is described as "transposing themes of American Western books and film to a backdrop of futuristic space frontiers" while sci-fi western "has elements of science fiction in a Western setting". Trigun definitely has western themes: struggling with a new and alien environment after migration, subjecting/exploiting native people (or species in Trigun's case), traveling bands of bandits... not to mention many characteristics and conventions; (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_%28genre%29) Vash, as the good guy, has a white gun. Knives, the bad guy, a black one. Showdowns start with two people standing in front of each other with hands on their holstered guns, etc. etc. That's the space western's western themes. The space frontier: Trigun takes place on an alien planet mankind only recently settled on. The story begins, chronologically, in a spaceship looking for hospitable planets. But Trigun also has both given properties of a sci-fi western. It has sci-fi elements (aliens, space travel, advanced technology) in a western(-like) setting: sand, guns, bandits, sheriffs. All that's missing is indians/mexicans (saying the Plants take the role of indians may thematically be sort of correct, but they do not wear feathers and don't hunt buffalos), which makes sense since the story simply and unambiguously does not take place in our past in north america but in the future after mankind travelled into space. In closing, Trigun fits both bills partially. Unlike a space western, it does not involve the hero getting on a spaceship (it does show him getting off, however) and unlike a sci-fi western it does not take place in a western setting with sci-fi elements jutted in. Dilemma! 130.89.228.82 (talk) 00:40, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
They key part of the phrase, here, is "Western". Science fiction Westerns take place in the West. The American West. In the U.S.A.. On Earth. E.g., not Gunsmoke. Why is this so f****** hard to understand? SharkD (talk) 06:31, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
The anonymous IP's argument is both reasonable and civil. Yours is uncivil and unnecessarily confrontational. Please take it down a notch.
That being said, it seems reasonable to me, given the IP's explanation, to let the inclusion stand. - Revolving Bugbear 17:26, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
The fact that it takes place on an extraterrestrial planet is an automatic pass for the classification, "Outer Space setting". SharkD (talk) 20:02, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
The problem with the Space Western and Science fiction Western articles is that neither provide reliable sources for their definition; it seems to a definition born out of consensus. I must admit, I have my own interpretation of what makes a Space Western (partly because I haven't found a reliable definition elsewhere) and it includes the anime Macross Plus. Like RepublicanJacobite, I'm of the persuasion that Trigun is not a Space Western for reasons I outlined in that article's talk page. My suggestion: say it's a Weird Western and call it a day.--Nohansen (talk) 23:32, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Influences

since westerns are influenced by Samurai films, Space westerns are influenced by Samurai films. This is shown by design features in both Star Wars, where the Jedi knights are more like samurai than cowboys, and Firefly, which combines both Asian and Western influences. Also, it should be compared to other sci-fi, which is traditionally a social commentary(something true of star trek, although it is listed here as a space western), as apposed to action oriented. Rds865 (talk) 02:25, 29 April 2008 (UTC)