Talk:Soy candle

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Soy candle article.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (`~~~~`). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.	Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Be welcoming	Article policies No original research Neutral point of view Verifiability

1 NPOV
2 Response
3 Complete overhaul
4 I agree
5 Back to basics
6 Factual errors and misleading statements
7 What part of the plant?

[edit] NPOV

I think the article needs a total rewrite from reliable sources, but only if notability can be clearly demonstrated first. A great deal of this article is highly promotional, but I though it best to put the NPOV tag first before starting to remove the promotional content. Additionally, from a quick glance, the references appear to be poor and many do not meet WP:RS. --Ronz 19:40, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I've removed some links and content that violated WP:EL and WP:SPAM. --Ronz 23:11, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Response

The problem with dispelling rumors about anything, is that when doing so, it will appear as bashing, because of so many misconceptions. I think if you actually read THROUGH the references and sources, instead of skimming (which you yourself admit to), you'll find the information to be reliable and correct, and was shown also as a notation to back up the statement it pertains to. As a candle maker, this information is valid and not only do I stand by it for it's validity, but other soy candle producers, have agree with the points raised.

There in fact is no promotional content in the article as you claim, but there is a vast amount of comparisons showing that the soy candle myths have absolutely no basis, which is what this article presents. There is no information, studies or links to many of what has been claimed, including what was on this page before my edits and because so many of those who choose to use malicious propaganda to promote soy point to wiki, it's quite important to have the proper knowledge in there.

Please share with us, what exactly is promotional about the content or incorrect information.Seola 05:29, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Edited for clarity.

"There in fact is no promotional content in the article as you claim" Perhaps I am wasting my time. Maybe I should have AfD'd the article as I was originally inclined. --Ronz 22:58, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Complete overhaul

This page should contain information about the following:

how soy candles are made
different types of soy candles (votives, pillars, etc.)
when to add color
when to add scents
what are the most popular ways of packaging them
if you want debate you should include comparison charts based on personal trials not misleading website information like consumeraffairs.com, which makes you think it is the department of consumer affairs website.

Much of the comments included in the debate arguments really have no basis in facts, so they should be removed. From my own experimenting, I can tell you that soy is less aggressive on the respiratory system than paraffin.

In addition it seems to promote beeswax as the best alternative to paraffin and it also puts paraffin in the same category as soy wax. It feels like it comes from someone who is selling beeswax or someone who hates the fact that candle makers are selling soy candles at a premium even though the cost is equivalent to that of paraffin.

--Samuel A. Eger 01:55, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments. I'm not sure that the article should exist at all. What should it contain that isn't already covered in the many existing articles about candles? --Ronz 04:48, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I agree

I agree with you, this page should be merged into candles. If people want to read about soy wax they can go from that page to the soy wax page.

--Samuel A. Eger 17:09, 25 July 2007 (UTC) Here in the UK soy is double the price of paraffin wax because we have to import it at great cost. What about other natural waxes, eg palm or just pure vegetable oil? How would you argue the case for a para/soy blend ...?

Some people argue that paraffin wax is a naturally occuring substance - it all boils down to a matter of opinion.

Maybe it should all appear under 'Candles' with a sub-heading for 'different types of waxes'.

[edit] Back to basics

I've reverted it back to a stub. It's now just basic information and claims, though they need to be verified or removed. Prior to this revert, the article was suitable for the totally disputed tag: little was verifiable, certainly not most claims, and the pov was one of promoting it as a product. The article still has problems with verifiability and pov, but at least we're dealing with basic facts rather than unverifiable "debates", "myths", "misconceptions", etc. --Ronz 05:14, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Factual errors and misleading statements

This stub should be removed or completely re-written because it is of little information or substantially incorrect. The topic might be notable or not. Please see the criticism of what is left of this stub below.

The claim that "Soy candles burn clean, producing 90-95% less soot than paraffin candles" and that “Soy wax is also water soluble” are in fact untrue, albeit a consensus of home candle makers. The National Candle Association’s FAQ page (http://www.candles.org/about_faq.html) refutes both of these popular myths. See the answers to the questions “Are certain candle waxes better than others?” and “Are vegetable-based waxes water soluble”.

The statement “Soy wax candles are 100% all natural, biodegradable, completely non-toxic, and a renewable resource.” is true but is a little misleading because its is also true for other vegetable based waxes and with the exception of renewable is also true for paraffin waxes, as well.

The statement “Soy wax burns cooler ….. and begins to melt at around 100oF (38oC).” is not correct as all commercial soy waxes melt well above this point with most having a melt point or a drop point of 115- 130°F.

For a survey of the top soy wax manufactures to confirm the melt points see:

http://www.accu-blend.com/HTML%20Files/soy_candle_blends_1.htm

http://www.accu-blend.com/HTML%20Files/soy_candle_blends_2.htm

http://www.cjrobinson.com/pages/PLCndlsSoywax.html

http://www.gfgb.com/candles/candle_products.htm

http://www.ngiwax.com/ProductInformation/Compare.php

http://www.naturewax.com/sales-technicalinfo.asp

Statman45 20:28, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the info! I've trimmed back the article further per your comments. --Ronz 03:40, 15 October 2007 (UTC)