Talk:Soviet Russia (disambiguation)

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[edit] Redirect to Russian SFSR

Does it make sense rename this disambiguation page Soviet Russia (disambiguation), and redirect the term to Russian SFSR? —Michael Z. 2007-08-07 00:51 Z

Done. `'Míkka 01:21, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
I think redirecting the term to Russian SFSR does not make sense because of the extent of the popularity of Soviet Russia to refer to the Soviet Union--Dwarf Kirlston 15:59, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Slang

"Slang" is not defined as "incorrect but widespread". Slang is very informal speech, and often restricted to specific contexts (cf. jargon).

A widespread misnomer is just a mistake. —Michael Z. 2007-08-14 15:24 Z

[edit] Soviet Union is legitimate

Russia is the continuance of the USSR, was most of the USSR, and the government of the USSR was always Russian.--Dwarf Kirlston 12:23, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

That is why Soviet Russia redirected not to Soviet Union nor to Russian Republic part of the Soviet Union, but rather to Soviet Russia (disambiguation)--Keerllston 19:41, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Russian Reversal

Is the series of jokes that start with "In Soviet Russia", that are an internet Memem, signficant to this disambiguation? - I believe so. I think some link to russian reversal should be made.--Keerllston 02:20, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

It is not called "Soviet Russia". Please read WP:DAB for the description of disambig pages. `'Míkka>t 02:25, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
It's been edited yet again. I think rather than an edit war Russian Reversal should be noted. I think the reason is that Russian Reversal is a series of jokes starting with "In Soviet Russia" - Russian Reversal can alternatively be called "In Soviet Russia" jokes.--Keerllston 15:00, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Did you read the instruction page I directed you to? `'Míkka>t 16:17, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I think the specific thing you are referring to (have you read that page?) "disambiguations are paths leading to the different article pages that could use essentially the same term as their title"
In soviet russia redirects to Yakov Smirnoff - My proposition is the following, are you amenable to it?:
*"In Soviet Russia" jokes commonly known as Russian Reversal.
--Keerllston 15:51, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Thank you. Now please notice that "Soviet Russia" and "In Soviet Russia" are similar but not the same phrases. For example, Republic (disambiguation) does not include Old Republic, Time (disambiguation) does not have On Time, etc. In other words, a dab page is not a list of all phrases that includes a given word or name. `'Míkka>t 16:10, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Well said. - agreed.
Perhaps- An alternative - this could be expanded into an article on the term "Soviet Russia"--Keerllston 16:39, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
There is no Soviet Russia article. `'Míkka>t 17:04, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
I am satisfied with the compromise [on Russian Reversal that Mikkalai now included as a see also].--Keerllston 17:37, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Oh, i see that you already reached an agreement.
I also think that the current condition is OK. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 19:07, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Usage of term

329 books use term "Soviet Russia" according to Google Books —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dwarf Kirlston (talk • contribs) 20:16, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Including

  • "The New Encyclopaedia Britannica" 1974 - saying "Vilna (Wilno), which Soviet Russia had conceded to Lithuania under the treaty of July 12, was seized by a division of the Polish Army on October 9"
  • "Encyclopedia of the United Nations and International Agreements" which talks about the "IRAN-SOVIET RUSSIA TREATY" saying "On 26 February 1921, Persia (as Iran was called at [...] Soviet Russia renounced all the concessions that had been granted to"

--Keerllston 20:22, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

The term gets 1,380,000 hits on google search. One is "Post-Soviet Russia" - perhaps some hits are not properly for the term.--Keerllston 21:36, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

"Soviet Russia" got 208 hits on recent Google News and an amazing 137,000 hits on archives.--Keerllston 12:18, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Definitions

  • merriam webster dictionary, [1]: Soviet Russia entry - Russia, USSR; Russia Entry notes that Soviet Russia is a common way to refer to RSFSR--Keerllston 00:04, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Talk

[on the use by "Britannica" and "Encyclopedia of UN an IA"--Keerllston 12:55, 1 December 2007 (UTC)]

Both of these refer to times when the Soviet Union had not existed yet - there was only RSFSR. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 05:23, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
I think that is true - what about the 137,000 hits on news archives?--Keerllston 12:55, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Neo Soviet Russia

Is a term used by "Russophobe" and similar to refer to the current government of Russia. Get's only 57 hits on Google, and 645 if allowed site repetition, does not seem very notable.--Keerllston 03:35, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

It's an interesting neologism, but a neologism nevertheless. There's a guideline about it: Wikipedia:Avoid neologisms. --Amir E. Aharoni 18:51, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
I know. I just wanted to note it's existence here at least. A commonly used term is Post-Soviet Russia. Which refers to something else altogether.--Keerllston 12:43, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Post-Soviet is a legitimate and generic term for the Russian Federation after 1991. It doesn't need its own article, but can be used in appropriate contexts. "Neo-Soviet" could be a description for the current state of Putin's regime, but it's the first time i am hearing it. --Amir E. Aharoni 13:57, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Redirect direction

Soviet Russia and Soviet russia should direct to the same place. I believe the talk of the redirects belongs on this page and not on the respecting pages.--Keerllston 12:43, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] From talk:Soviet Russia

In cases when there is main meaning of the term which is a synonym to a more common term, it is redirected to the main meaning. There is a very common case in wikipedia and there is even a special template Template:Redirect to use. Please see how this template is used at the top of Russian SFSR article (as well as in many other places). `'Míkka>t 00:58, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

  • Synonymn? it's also a synomymn to USSR, and has a similar status to that of Bolshevist Russia - Neither of them signify RSFSR.--Keerllston 13:51, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I would support Kirlston here. The term Soviet Russia was quite widely used to refer to the USSR. I am unaware of it being used to refer to the present Russian Federation. Could you cite some sources? Bathrobe (talk) 02:25, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

It does not redirect to "present Russian federation", it redirects to "soviet russin federation". And USSR was called simply Russia. In this case the priority is the correct usage, rather than ignorant one. Morning Glory does not redirect to Nocturnal penile tumescence, although I may bet my own one that it is the first meaning to pop in the brain of the majority of male anglophone wikipedians. `'Míkka>t 03:57, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Morning Glory leads to a disambiguation page, which is where Soviet Russia should redirect (in my opinion).--Keerllston 15:56, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
It should redirect to where people expect to go. "Ignorant" though you may consider it, it does have some currency, and there are likely to be people looking for Soviet Union who type in "Soviet Russia". They should not be forcibly redirected to Russian Federation. And since Soviet Russia is not a formal, official term, there is no reason to talk about "correct usage".
Since there is a Soviet Russia disambiguation page, why not redirect there so people can choose exactly what term they want? That's what a disambiguation page is for.
Bathrobe (talk) 01:08, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Encyclopedia cannot be dictated by ignorance. And despite being informal term we can and do speak of its correct usage. `'Míkka>t 22:26, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
Please provide citations that prove this informal usage is "correct usage".
Bathrobe 02:31, 3 December 2007 (UTC)