Talk:South Florida metropolitan area

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 South Florida metropolitan area was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Reviewed version: February 17, 2007
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Contents

[edit] Name of MSA

Per this press release from E. Clay Shaw the official name of the MSA was changed from Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Miami Beach to Miami-Fort Lauderdale-West Palm Beach in 2003. This document from the Broward County Planning Services Division states that the United States Office of Management and Budget refers to the Southeast Florida MSA as the Miami-Fort Lauderdale-West Palm Beach MSA. If anyone can find a souce indicating that the name has been changed back, please cite it. -- Donald Albury(Talk) 10:45, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

The metropolitan area name was changed again in December 2005 to Miami–Fort Lauderdale–Miami Beach. See http://www.census.gov/population/estimates/metro_general/List1.txt. —RJN 18:26, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Was it actively changed back or was that just some document that used the name of the area that was used back in the 2000 census? The others are press releases, I can't find any items that indicate it was intentionally changed back.... aapold

Going through the names used since 1990, it looks like the MSA name has always used Miami Beach ever since Palm Beach County was included in the Miami MSA. (West Palm Beach was a separate MSA in 1990, 1993, and 1999.) The 2004 and 2005 Palm Beach city populations are larger than the Miami Beach city population. West Palm Beach would most likely replace Miami Beach in the official name in the next redefinition. --Polaron | Talk 05:11, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
The best I can figure is that the Office of Management and Budget, which is the authoritative agency for these names, changed it to Miami-Fort Lauderdale-West Palm Beach in 2003, but the Census Bureau hasn't changed its listings. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dalbury (talk • contribs) .
The Office of Management and Budget was the one who changed it to Miami–Fort Lauderdale–Miami Beach as of December 2005 definition. Click here and look at page 21 of the PDF file. —RJN 00:34, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] principal cities

I don't know if this is the proper place for this comment, but is it possible to get a better representative picture of Ft. Lauderdale? The one on here is pretty awful! Bgtgwazi 20:10, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

i dont think those cities are prinicpal, infact Kendall is a CDP not even a city. I think it should just be, Miami, Ft. Lauderdale and west Palm Beach. What do you think?

It doesn't matter what you think. Putting what you think in the article would be original research. Principal cities in MSAs are defined by the Office of Management and Budget. As listed in METROPOLITAN AND MICROPOLITAN STATISTICAL AREAS AND PRINCIPAL CITIES, December 2005, WITH CODES, the Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Miami Beach, FL Metropolitan Statistical Area has the following Principal Cities listed: Miami, Fort Lauderdale, Miami Beach, West Palm Beach, Pompano Beach, Kendall, Boca Raton, Deerfield Beach, Boynton Beach and Delray Beach. This is verifiable. As soon as I close this comment, I'll make sure list of Principal Cities is properly cited. -- Donald Albury(Talk) 00:39, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] urban areas

The Miami urbanized area does extend to the cities of Fort Lauderdale and eastern West Palm beach, as far north as Jupiter and as far south as Florida City. The Census Bureau treats the whole thing as a single urban area. --Polaron | Talk 15:29, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

There are different things involved here. The SMA includes all of Broward, Miami-Dade and Palm Beach Counties. The 'Miami urbanized area' includes the densely populated area extending from from Florida City to Jupiter/Tequesta (and actually, a little bit into Martin County), but it is only two to twenty miles wide. SMA 'Divisions' are just that, statistical division within an SMA, and the Miami-Ft.Lauderdale-Miami Beach SMA is divided into the three division listed in the article. -- Donald Albury 23:22, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article for Pompano Beach claims there are over 100,000 people

Is this correct? Pompano Beach, Florida - Marc Averette 18:08, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

The 2005 estimate by the Census Bureau is 104,179.[1] --Polaron | Talk 18:28, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
Then should the template have Pompano Beach added to it to reflect this? - Marc Averette 18:38, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
To the template (at the top of the article)? Not necessarily. I think the top 5 cities (after Miami) are probably enough. To this section? Yes, I think that would be correct. Using the 2005 estimate seems acceptable, as this was also done for Miami Gardens, Florida. Ufwuct 19:11, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
Ah, I see, the recent annexations pushed Pompano over 100,000. As the plan is for all unincorporated populated areas in Broward County to be annexed into one of the cities, we can expect other cities in Broward to show sudden jumps in population. -- Donald Albury 02:29, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Size of Urban Area

says its often no more than 5 miles wide. thats just not true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])

I agree, mostly. The only spot where it looks like it could be about 5 miles across would be north of the Broward County line between Boca Raton and Boynton Beach. The word "often" is misleading. It's "often" from 10-15 miles across. - Marc Averette 19:17, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
The 'five-miles wide' is sourced ([2]) in the article. Don't removed information that is sourced based on your personal opinion. Moreover, if you will look at the map at [3], you will see that the southern portion down to Florida City and the northern portion from West Palm Beach to southern Martin County are both narrow. -- Donald Albury 00:57, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
The source states "as little as five miles". It doesn't use the misleading word "often". The article should reflect what the source states. - Marc Averette 05:18, 3 November 2006 (UTC)


[edit] State Route 80

I'm wondering if I should add the Southern Blvd. section of Florida State Road 80 in eastern Palm Beach County to the freeways section of the article. It is being made as a limited access freeway, but theres still about 3 tiny intersections along the way that they don't plan on converting to on/off-ramps. Discuss.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Andyxox (talk • contribs)

It is just a limited part of the highway. I think maybe a section in Florida State Road 80 specifically about the limited access section, and a link to that section from the list of freeways would do the trick. -- Donald Albury 14:25, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA review

This article seems to be mostly a collection of lists. While there is some actual content elsewhere, it doesn't seem well represented in the lead paragraphs. My understanding is that lead paragraphs should be used to summarise the content in the article, yet there does not seem much regarding the climate, transportation, government or media sections. Likewise, very little information in the lead paragraph seems to coincide with any sections. I hope that helps a bit. --Kmsiever 20:27, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes I have to agree the lead does not summarise information found elsewhere in the article and much of the lead should itself be in the Demographics section. The very large list of settlements could be split into a separate page e.g. List of settlements in South Florida metropolitan area which would help reduce the amount of lists on this page. Similarly the Sports and Media sections should be converted from lists into prose.
A history section, even if fairly short, would be useful in an article of this sort. Although many references are provided some sections have a distinct lack of them. For example the climate section only has two despite having many facts which could do with references. I hope these suggestions also help, in my opinion this article is likely to fail the GA nomination in its current state. - Suicidalhamster 00:26, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Does anyone know the reason why it was officially changed to Miami-Ft. Lauderdale-Pompano Beach?

What are the determining factors? The document just mentions population, but obviously that's not the only factor. Hialeah, Florida has over 200,000 and is the 2nd largest city. Why isn't it called Miami-Hialeah-Ft. Lauderdale metro area? - Marc Averette 00:32, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

The short answer is that Hialeah is classified as a suburb of Miami, i.e. it is not a principal city of the metropolitan area. Only principal cities (cities that function as regional employment attractors) can be used in the name of a metropolitan statistical area. --Polaron | Talk 04:20, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the info. I know that Pompano is mostly business/industrial parks between I-95 & the Turnpike. Many people work there and that must have something to do with it. - Marc Averette 14:51, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Found it! From the Federal Register of December 12, 2003[4]:
A ‘‘principal city’’ is defined in relation to a CBSA [Core Based Statistical Areas] rather than an MSA. The principal city (or cities) of a CBSA includes: (A) The largest incorporated place in the CBSA with a Census 2000 population of at least 10,000 or, if no such place exists, the largest incorporated place or census designated place in the CBSA; (B) any additional incorporated place or census designated place with a Census 2000 population of at least 250,000 or in which 100,000 or more persons work; (C) any additional incorporated place or census designated place with a Census 2000 population of at least 50,000, but less than 250,000, and in which the number of jobs meets or exceeds the number of employed residents; and (D) any additional incorporated place or census designated place with a Census 2000 population of at least 10,000, but less than 50,000, and one-third the population size of the largest place, and in which the number of jobs meets or exceeds the number of employed residents (65 FR 82236).
-- Donald Albury 00:01, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
I see. That's why Miami Beach was listed most recently, even though it only has 87,000 residents, the staggering # of hotels & restaurants employ probably another 100,000, whereas other cities that are more populous (like West Palm) don't have as massive a workforce. - Marc Averette 00:51, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
West Palm Beach replaced Miami Beach in the title a couple of years ago, but it was switched back again after a short time. As the announcement of the the change to West Palm Beach came from Clay Shaw's office, I suspect there was political pressure to make the change, and it may not have been strictly by the regs. -- Donald Albury 00:11, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fail GA nomination

I have failed the Good Article nomination as this article does not meet the criteria. See the above comments for more details. The main problems are extensive lists, a lead which does not summarise the article and inadequate references in some sections. Hope this is useful in getting the article to GA standard. - Suicidalhamster 18:53, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] South Florida

South Florida redirects here, however South Florida covers Fort Myers south on the West Coast and Port St. Lucie South on the east coast, based off annual temperatures and commuting. This page should state that this page is only the metropolitan area, not all of South Florida. Casey14 18:59, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Query: I'd like to see some discussion--perhaps a new article--about the historical use of the term "South Florida." How did a university in Tampa come up with that name? Was the state's panhandle once known as "north Florida," while the whole peninsula was known as "south Florida"? to an outsider looking at map of the state, that terminology would make sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.82.231.152 (talk) 21:50, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Exotic Pet Trade & Iguanas

Due to Florida's prominence in the exotic pet trade, iguanas imported as pets have escaped or been released, and are now established in South Florida. This has created unique problems for Florida's homeowners and businesses. South and Central Florida's subtropical climate allows these large herbivorous (plant-eating) lizards to survive, reproduce, and become part of the Florida environment.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/IN528 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joe2832 (talk • contribs) 21:16, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Common name" in infobox

Someone just changed the "common name" in the infobox from "Miami - Ft. Lauderdale" to "Miami-Dade - Broward - Palm Beach". My impulse is to say that the most common "common name" for the area is "South Florida". I don't hear people saying "Miami-Dade - Broward - Palm Beach", and I doubt most people use "Miami-Ft. Lauderdale" to refer to the three county area. Anyway, let's get some discussion going and see if we can agree on something. -- Donald Albury 21:52, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

I can definitely say Miami-Fort Lauderdale-West Palm Beach, Miami-Dade-Broward-Palm Beach, Miami-Fort Lauderdale, and all its variations, are not the common names. However, "South Florida", "Miami metro", or sometimes even just "Miami" if you're from outside the state, could all be common names. --Comayagua99 (talk) 23:25, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Highest elevation?

Just curious, but wouldn't the highest current elevation (even though it is manmade) be one of the Mouth Trashmores, like the one near the Dade-Broward line in the Turnpike? Since it is dirt-covered, would it no longer be considered "artificial"? I know, I have too much time on my hands, but I saw that mountain and thought that it was MUCH more than 15 feet high. CodeCarpenter (talk) 14:18, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I believe elevation doesn't count unless it's natural. Key West also has a "trashmore" that's about 100 ft high (on Stock Island), but it's not considered since Solares Hill is listed as the high point. There's a site called Peakbagger that lists high points taken from topographic maps. Here's Miami's highpoint (20 feet) and Dade County's highpoint (35 feet). - Marc Averette (talk) 23:28, 7 March 2008 (UTC)