Talk:Sourav Ganguly

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Contents 1 POV: GANGULYs favourite drink 2 POV: zimbabwe century 3 Another Ganguly 4 ambidextrous 5 Succession box 6 Rewriting 7 pov 8 Removed passage 9 Name Issue 10 Issue with Chapel 11 Trying to get to NPOV 12 Test Score 13 Removing NPOV tag 14 Recent edits 15 Intl Career 16 Recent addition of POV and OR 17 Addition of Section on MoM & MoS Awards 18 No Pic! 19 Tipped to Be Captain 20 cheers, pic added 21 removing cricinfo opinion 22 Cleanup: Things to be done 23 Chappelish version 24 "Painfully slow" 25 WikiProject class rating 26 Ganguly lives in a Barista? 27 ODI Records

[edit] POV: GANGULYs favourite drink

It is possible that I am addicted to Banana juice. Lack of this drink may affect my performance —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.92.34.131 (talk) 13:41, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] POV: zimbabwe century

"Ganguly ground out a painfully slow century, against what is regarded as one of the weakest bowling attacks in international cricket"

while i think it is ok and fair to call zimbabwe one of the weakest bowling attacks - especially in conjunction with the phrase "regarded as"; it would be very value-loaded to use the term "painfully", which therefore is a NPOV violation. I therefore am changing it to "Ganuguly scored a century in 254 balls, which may be considered very slow by modern standards, against what is regarded as one of the weakest bowling attacks in international cricket". hope this is ok. Sam

Also changed the part in his biography which jumps straight from his 183 in taunton in the 99 WC to his being dropped cos of bad form in 2005... after all the small matter of 6 years, a world cup and two champions trophy final appearances, and about 10,000 internatioanl runs, cannot be ignored! - Sam

[edit] Another Ganguly

Say, wasn't there another Indian national cricket team player named Ganguly, who played during the 1970s and 80s? -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 21:18, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

There are no other international cricketers by that name. Saurav Ganguly has an elder brother by the name Snehasish who was a decent first class cricketer. But he got nowhere near the national side. Can you tell anything more about the person you are looking for ? Tintin 21:24, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Nope, sorry, it's just a dim memory. Perhaps it was a different spelling. I was considering making Ganguly a disambig, and looking for names to disambig. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 21:37, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] ambidextrous

Is he actually ambidextrous ?? Just coz he bats left handed and bowls right handed, doesnt make it so ... ??

• I agree. I've changed it. Thanks for spotting it. Stephen Turner 10:44, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Succession box

Preceded by: Sachin Tendulkar Indian Test captains 2000/01 Succeeded by: Rahul Dravid

Isn t he the current test captain as in the Zimbabwe tour . I am editing this ... any objections people ?--Nuttysocrates 09:44, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

He was also captain for longer than that. That info box is misleading. - Greaser 05:24, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Please include, He is the third player of ODI cricket (after Tendulkar and Jayasurya)to complete the "triple" (10000runs, 100 wickets and 100 catches) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.200.35.12 (talk) 01:52, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rewriting

Maybe we can make this article better by tabulating all the boquets and brickbats Ganguly has recd on and off the field --Nuttysocrates 22:03, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] pov

Hmm - isn't it a bit contradictory to in the same article refer to him as humble and shy but also temperamental and controversial? No evidence being cited either way this is not encyclopaedic, boys! Autumnleaf 23:00, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Agree and nor is it NPOV. IMHO, all such references to behavior do not add much to the article and can be removed safely. btw, the way you say "Boys" has given away your secret identity. You are Azhar!! --Gurubrahma 07:00, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Silly you!!! WRONG sex! ;o) Meanwhile I have entered the fray and done some tiny editing. Faintly hilarious double meaning was lurking - just look at my changes. Incidentally, the article looks fine and the NPOV should go, no? Autumnleaf 23:07, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

It still seems a bit POV to me, although I'm not familiar enough with the subject to know for sure what is universally accepted and what is disputed. Stephen Turner 08:40, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Removed passage

I removed this passage:

In ODIs, S C Ganguly made 22 centuries, out of which, INDIA has won 18 matches. If you compare with the other players in the world of Cricket, very few have this record.

and replaced it with this:

His number of centuries in ODIs is only exceeded by Sachin Tendulkar.

The reason I did this is that his number of centuries is superb, but his team's record when he gets a century is not that unusual: if a player gets a century in an ODI, usually his side wins. Even in a weak side, Brian Lara has 19 centuries, and the West Indies have won 16 of those. Sachin Tendulkar has 28 wins and one no result out of 38, which is slightly worse but not much. Aussies do even better, of course. Adam Gilchrist has 12 wins out of 12. Stephen Turner (Talk) 11:51, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Name Issue

Is his middle name Chandidas? As far as I know, Chandidas is the name of his father, and Bengalis do not have the tendency to include their father's name as middle name.

Cricinfo says Chandidas, at least. Stephen Turner (Talk) 15:20, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

You are right, Chandidas is his father's name. Look up his brother, Snehasish - there, too, his father's name is used as a middle name. Bengalis almost never write their patronymic as a middle name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.232.75.33 (talk) 13:51, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Please note that we, Bengalees, do not use our father's name as our middle name. Therefore it is only Saurav Ganguly & Snehasis Ganguly. Also , Saurav Ganguly lives in a place called Behala which is within postal & municipal limits of Kolkata.

  ----  Kalyan Kumar Roy  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.93.196.18 (talk) 18:37, 11 May 2008 (UTC) 

[edit] Issue with Chapel

Half a page to describe the spat Ganguly had with Greg Chapel! Isn't that overrated?

- well, considering that that spat may have led to the end of his career, i would consider it important.

- kyrsch.

[edit] Trying to get to NPOV

-->There's way too much on this article which doesnt meet wikipedia standards.

  ->'Ganguly's international cricket career could be bisected into 2 halves...' 

The section is too long for no good. It's almost a jab at Ganguly.

Well I couldnt stand it. The article for one of the most visited pages of a cricketer read like fanmail. So I have with whole lot of daring( maybe ts the five cups of coffee in me speaking!) removed a few passages & tried to bring it to NPOV. I havent removed any Data but have removed statements like "He has been credited in findiang many talented youngsters in the team", "His record in Test Cricket & ODI's is good" & "Ganguly is known for hitting big sixes". Such statements though appear to be true have no citation & are the reason for the neutrality dispute on this article. Hopefully my changes will be accepted. Srikeit 01:15, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Just a suggestion but maybe you should get rid of all the content which explains the downfall of Ganguly. It takes the article to a debatable stage which can be avoided. Providing content of his cricketting days as a player and then as a captain should be sufficient but you need to conjure a good ending just touching the surface of the present controversy he is in.

Works that need to be carried out:

1. Needs a complete revamp. There is no continuous flow of matter.
2. Need to avoid statements like this - He has also been credited with helping transform the Indian players into a vibrant team with an excellent team spirit.
3. Not the least, the controversy he is at the moment

Nivus|(talk)|(desk) 12:22, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

I disagree, I think the ending of his captaincy and (perhaps) international career is very important. But it has to be written in a neutral way, and it appears to be impossible for most people to do that! Stephen Turner (Talk) 13:06, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the article needs major cleanup, and also could do with some expansion. His cricketing career (the high points) seem to be described in a hurry (well, compared to the section on his downfall). His spat with Chappel is very important, still his achievements deserve a better treatment as well. I tried to expand his achievements but was foxed by how to put a good enough structure to it. Also the article is full of statements like "in the current series" or "in the last season". Such temporal statements should be replaced to something like "in the <seriesname> series". I changed some, but there may be more. --Soumyasch 17:57, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Srikeit for removing statements like Ganguly has exceptional record as captain. While editing yesterday, I thought these opinion-expressing statements were contibuting to the non-neutrality of the article. But since almost all paras start with these and they are there for quite sometime now, I thought may be they were necessary to introduce the para. So instead of removing them, I ended up adding one such line!!! Its good to see someone else who thinks like that. I wont fall for such confusion again. Thanks for that. --Soumyasch 06:24, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Test Score

The number of runs scored by Ganguly in tests is not some 10221 but much rather 5221. His average is also 40.78 and not 58. He has taken 26 test wickets(not 25). Did the relevant editing. (Source Cricinfo.com) Hp filter 10:36, 18 March 2006 (UTC)Gaurav Konar.

[edit] Removing NPOV tag

ganguly current test average is 43.58.Finally after a long time this article seems to confirm to NPOV. I have removed some of the subtle NPOV violations & now the article looks ready to lose the tag. What do you think?

Thanks

Srikeit^{(talk ¦ ✉)} 01:04, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree, well done. Stephen Turner (Talk) 07:36, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

The International Career section (in biography), which speaks of his achevements, is very short compared to the Controversies. While I do not say that Controversies be pruned, I do think Intl Career seems as if rushed through and added as an afterthought. Ieeds to be expanded to include more of his achievements. Else the Biography tends to be bit negative. --Soumyasch 07:44, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I have removed the NPOV tag! Never thought this day would come for the Sourav Ganguly article! Anyway about Soumyasch's concerns I think what you say is true. The criticisms do outweigh the achievements by a bit, but that is not a strong enough topic for this article to continue deserving the tag. Although it would be very helpful if you or anybody else can add to the achievements. But be careful though, we do not want text added to balance NPOV to violate it again!

Thanks

Srikeit^{<spfeel "expandsect" needs to be put in International career section, for reasons explained above. --Soumyasch 12:05, 25 March 2006 (UTC)}

^{I agree. I have done it.}

^Thanks

^{Srikeit(talk ¦ ✉) 12:55, 25 March 2006 (UTC)}

[edit] Recent edits

Some recent edits have been, albeit informative, in violation of NPOV. I have done some cleanup of the section & looks like the POV issue has been solved. I hope these recent edits will not give this article the dreaded POV tag I have worked so hard to remove. *sweats & pants*

Thanks

Srikeit^{(talk ¦ ✉)} 18:03, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Intl Career

Ganguly began his career in international cricket in 1992, where he was dropped from the team for his bad form. For another four years he struggled to come back into contention. Finally in 1996, Ganguly was given a place in the Test side which Ganguly capitalised upon & scored his first Test century on debut at the historic ground of Lords. He later proved to be a prolific one day run scorer and also a formidable and dependable test player.

I would say the italicized portions are not netral in point of view. And also regd the first italicized statement, it should not be said he was dropped because of bad for - he was just allowed to play in one match, in which he didn't score notably. But failure in one match cannot jusify lack of form. I would suggest the rewrite for these parts as follows:

Sourav Ganguly made his international debut against Australia in India's tour of Australia in 1992. He didn't score much (can be replaced with his actual score) and was dropped from further matches. Four years later ("following a good domestic redord" can be added but I am not sure), he was recalled into the national side for a test series against England in England. He made his test debut at Lords, and scored a century in that match and repeated the feat in the match which followed. He was retained for the One day team and he went on become a player in both forms of the game

I am putting it up here and not on the main article because the issue is too sensitive. Its too tough staying objective when speaking of Sourav's achievements. Please transfer it to the article to replace the part in question, if you feel this is better.

--Soumyasch 18:24, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry for the NPOV violating edits. It feel it often happens that when you try to lessen the POV of flagrant NPOV violations, the end result also subtly violates NPOV. Anyway your reworded edit looks fine to me (except for a typo) & if you feel it should be posted, Be Bold! & post it. It has been written by you so the edit credit should go to you.

Thanks

Srikeit^{(talk ¦ ✉)} 18:34, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Done. Thanks. --Soumyasch 18:43, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Hey, someone should add his feats against Pakistan in Toronto to the page. That was an important performance in the sense, it was then when Ganguly really made it to the same strata as the Tendulkars and the Kapil Devs.

I agree - i think it was a world record, wasn't it? 4 man of the matches in a row? it would be a significant highlight of his career

[edit] Recent addition of POV and OR

Ganguly was nick-named as the Prince of Kolkata by Geoffrey Boycott

Why was this removed. It is true?

however as critics rightly point out, Australia's bowling was not potent enough as they missed their two top bowlers Glenn McGrath and Brett Lee for that match.

It is deliberately draeing attention to one way of interpretation, thus not POV.

thanks to his deputy Rahul Dravid who scored an amazing 23% of the total runs made by India in those 21 wins

Thanks to? Its blatant POV!!

Sourav Ganguly's 10 year international career could be easily bisected into 2 halves, the pre and the post 2000 eras. The significance of the year 2000 lies in the fact that the ICC introduced the one bouncer per over rule in ODIs starting from that year. Sourav Ganguly who averaged 45.5 from 1996-2000 suddenly found himself at the receiving end of the bouncer rule as his average plunged to 34.9 between the 5 year period 2001-2005. Also, against Test playing nations(which included Zimbabwe and Bangladesh), his average in the period plunged further down to 30.66 and he could score only 6 centuries between 2001-2005, of which 3 centuries were against Kenya & 1 was against Namibia. This sudden drop in his ODI average(to 30.66) against Test playing nations after 2001 was clearly a result of the short pitch stuff he had to encounter from opposition bowlers.

Do I even need comment on this?

Its the perfect way to get NPOV tag slapped back on the article. --soum^সৌমোyasch 08:35, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

I dont see anything wrong, as long as it backed by statistics. And this fact is too imporatant to ignore, because it affected his career in a lot of way.

I disagree - to infer that these were the reasons for his drop of form would be an opinion - not a fact; the article is not just providing the facts but concluding from it. His fall in performance could have happened for any other reasons - captaincy, tough tours etc. therefore i still think it a blatant POV - Sam.

[edit] Addition of Section on MoM & MoS Awards

I wanted the below sections with the tables summarizing the MoM & MoS in Test and ODI cricket to be added to the main page

Added the MoS & MoM Awards section in SG's page Kalyan 19:11, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

There is a mistake in the MoM awards (Tests). Venue says - Kandy, Chennai. Kandy is not in Chennai for gods sake! Its in Sri Lanka.Victory247 21:13, 15 May 2007 (UTC)Victory247

Thanks for pointing it out. i have corrected it. Kalyan 04:02, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] No Pic!

This is a biography page with no pic!!! how funny? can anybody take the pain to add a nice pic of Ganguly

Soumyakanti 19:36, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Even I think a picture is necessary. If a free image is hard to come by, a fair use image of a cap from tv broadcast may be used. --soum^talk 22:09, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tipped to Be Captain

Is that needed? that he might become the skipper after the disastrous world cup 122.162.58.39 17:04, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Haven't got a picture of ganguly. can i add one?

[edit] cheers, pic added

Licenced pic from Wiki coomons added. yay

Blessingsboy 23:58, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] removing cricinfo opinion

Cricinfo staff should understand that they don't own wikipedia and hence should not be a ganguly basher.

Ganguly was dropped not only because of poor form, but because More, Chappell and their fans did not wanted a captain they cannot dominate

--Blessingsboy 20:25, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup: Things to be done

• The various sections need to be reorganized and rewritten. Right now, it is completely statistical oriented, having primary sections for Centuries, Statistics, Records. The "international career" is heavily loaded with almost all the text is filled in one single section, which needs to rewritten in its entirety.

• Initial/Early life section is required to cover his childhood cricket playing/learning/influences
• Domestic career
• International career - Evenly distributed right from Debut till 2007 world cup, having appropriate subsections.(might need to be split into couple of sections)
• Personal life covering both Dona and Nagma.
• Controversy
• Statistics - Centuries, records, captaincy records etc.
• Man of the matches/ Man of the series etc.
• Appropriate templates such as Indian captaincy template, various world cup squads etc.

Having a picture in the infobox is an advantage in this article. Once all these major cleanup activities are done, the article can be considered for moving towards peer review. - KNM ^Talk 01:23, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chappelish version

Chappell fans/ Ganguly haters should know that their opinion is unwanted in this article. If you continue to spam, we will spam back the Greg Chappell article.

We are not removing the information about ganguly's poor form and lack of fitness but you should know, this is not an article where you can expres your hatred for Ganguly. An enclyclopedia article should not be a place of critical discussion.

Blnguyen, you are the lead of the spammers. Since you are from Adeleide, its quite understandable. We forgive you. Next time you revert back to your Chappellish-version, we will send a request to IP ban you. This is your final warning.

Blessingsboy 22:34, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Dear Blessingboy: Few things. There is no Chappelish version or something like that here. Apparently, there are no spammers here. Please assume good faith on other editors, and look forward to improvise the article.

Statements such as "we will spam back the Greg Chappell article" are uncalled for. No one is allowed to disrupt the Wikipedia to prove a point. Let us keep in mind, Wikipedia is not a battleground.

Last but not the least, please refrain from making personal attacks, like you have made above by calling names such as "lead of the spammers". Personal attacks are harmful for the project.

Coming back to the topic, the article needs much much more constructive work, in fact almost-complete rewrite. I have proposed some points above, as part of the major cleanup. If you have inputs / feedback on that please provide. We will need to work on those items one after the other, to bring the article into a good shape. Cheers, - KNM ^Talk 23:41, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Painfully slow"

Painfully slow means dreadfully slow, not "with much difficulty". 59.93.244.236 11:32, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 19:53, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ganguly lives in a Barista?

You mean the coffee shop? How can someone live in a Barista? Who wrote this crap? Is he out of his mind? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.188.253.116 (talk) 11:03, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] ODI Records

Some of them are quite pedantic ex. Second highest ODI runs scorer for India (in a calendar year) and should be deleted. Does anyone disagree?Abeer.ag (talk) 17:40, 19 May 2008 (UTC)