Talk:Son Goku (Dragon Ball)

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Son Goku (Dragon Ball) article.
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This article is supported by the Dragon Ball work group.
Son Goku (Dragon Ball) was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Reviewed version: October 31, 2007

Here are some tasks you can do:
  • Copyedit: Write fictional information in present tense.
  • Wikify: Character biography and any other areas where needed.
  • Verify: Cite the areas where necessary.


  1. September 2006 – October 2006
  2. October 2006 – April 2007
  3. April 2007 – August 2007

Contents

[edit] Wizard

Why do someone keep putting the Wizard fight between Goku and Superman? There's plenty of Wizard fights so why does this, out of all the others, is the only one mentioned? It's not canon anyway and many fans aren't happy with it as well. I think it should be taken out.Dark Rain

What fans think is ussually considered irrelevant, as a matter of fact this mention might be some of the most important content in the article (even though the format isn't the best) because it was published in a entirely independent, third party publication wich helps prove the character's "real-world" impact. - Caribbean~H.Q. 03:10, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, but why is this any different from the other fights? There's hardly any of the other fights mentioned in other articles. This is also a publication that retracts their fights too. Dark Rain

[edit] Congrats

To all editors of this Son Goku article, I commend all of you to a job well done, on wirting this article, and finding a resolution to squeezing the necessary information compressing it to a suitable size. Well done! But if you still think you can improve it (that's improvee it, not spoil it) then be confident enough to try. After all, articles can always be improved. If you are aware to my contributions, I apogolize for constantly making it larger, and I swear, I tried to do it by that squeezes as much information that I deem important into a compressed space, even trying to find ways to shrink the article, without keeping out vital parts. But you guys have found a great solution to that problem, so I'd like to say thank you very much. Uglyguy2006 21:13, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Thumbs Up to a job well done! UzEE (Talk • Contribs) 21:26, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Go to Dragonball Special Techniques!!! seriously...MysticGohan 04:26, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Can someone tell me why Goku's Techniques and Special Abilities section is back... I'm working on Dragonball Special Techniques so we can just link to that page, as opposed to adding it to the individual characters pages. 24.121.202.80 21:17, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. Dragonball GT is ignored and the article is very short as are all the others. Life is great...if you support Manchester United (talk) 13:19, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Appearances in video games section

Unless I forgot something, Son Goku appears in every Dragon Ball game ever released, so this section of the article is rather superfluous. It should be replaced with a single sentence and a link to the much more complete and precise List of Dragon Ball video games. Kariteh 08:16, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree, there's no point in having the full list. You can change it if you'd like. --VorangorTheDemon 05:12, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA nominee?

I think it's time that we discuss this. We've all worked very hard on this article, and it's a lot better then it was previously. Or perhaps you can list suggestions for improving? It would be much appreciated. --VorangorTheDemon 05:22, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

While I appreciate the hard work put in this article. There is very little chance that it might pass the GAC anytime soon. The main problems are:
_ Lack of inline citations. All affirmations that could possibly be questionned should be sourced to a reliable source.
_ In-universe perspective. While I hate these tags, this one is right: the article really need real world perspective. See WP:FICT for details. A section about the conceptual origin of the character, its stages of development, another about the critical and public receptions to the character, possibly one about its importance in contemporary culture, all would benefit the article.
_ On a lesser note, the article could use a good thorough copy edit by several experimented users. Like most articles made by a real huge bunch of editors without much concertation, the style isn't consistent.
Good luck, --SidiLemine 09:31, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
You mean experienced users, right?--$UIT 04:46, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Lol! Yeah, that's what I meant. Hasty translation from French.--SidiLemine 12:27, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
I agree. Its a lot better now, but lets just tune it a bit more to be on the safe side. UzEE (Talk • Contribs) 02:12, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Super Saiyan 2

If Im not mistaking, Goku transforms into Super Saiyan 2 for the first time while fighting Yakkon, in Babidi's ship. He turns Super Saiyan 2 to generate extra energy to blow up Yakkon. UzEE (Talk • Contribs) 02:33, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't think so, though one of my friends drew the same conclusion after watching the scene. I'm pretty sure the first time we see him use SS2 was when he fought Majin Vegeta. His hair and eyes didn't change color during the Yakon fight, and there was no electricity. Plus, I think it's safe to say it would have drawn a much greater reaction from Vegeta. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.99.127.210 (talk) 23:11, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Why should this be an issue? It's confirmed that Goku had the ability to transform into a Super Saiyan 2 prior to the Majin Vegeta fight. He even had Super Saiyan 3 before the Vegeta fight, Vegeta states that he knew this when he returns to Earth to help Goku fight Shin Boo (Super Buu). And the Bio was removed anyway, it falls under WP:CRUFT. --VorangorTheDemon 23:33, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Electricity is a sign of Super Saiyan 2 only in the manga. In the anime, Super Saiyan 2 characters often don't generate electricity at all. Kariteh 09:43, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
True, but also often in the anime, ALL Super Saiyan forms generate electricity, not only Super Saiyan 2 and 3.--VorangorTheDemon 11:45, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

What the hell are you talking about, in the anime, normal Super Saiyan never generated electricity. The only slight notice of electricity probably would've been the exact moment a Saiyan/Half-Saiyan transforms into Super Saiyan, but he would not generate any electricity afterwards. Therefore, only Super Saiyan 2 and 3 generate electricity throughout battle. Gohan The Avenger (talk) 16:11, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Vegeta states this. "So Kakarot has also surpassed Super Saiyan" So Goku was Super Saiyan 2! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Goku's Rival (talk • contribs)

Can't exactly use videogames as a source, but in Budokai Tenkiachi 3, Super Saiyan 2 Goku's biography says he "transformed into this form, overloading Yakon with energy." --- Krezos Farland (talk) 19:24, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm stuck on this one, but in the manga, Vegeta said "So Kakarot has also surpassed Super Saiyan". Then again, Goku only really properly turned in Super Saiyan 2 against Majin Vegeta. And yeah, it should've drawn a much greater reaction from Vegeta, unless he'd changed into Super Saiyan 2 himself through training (but I'm not going to argue about that). The only characteristic of Super Saiyan 2 I saw during the Goku-Yakon fight was Goku's hair sticking up, but no lightning, which brings me to the conclusion that Goku must've been about to turn Super Saiyan 2, but didn't quite get there. Gohan The Avenger (talk) 16:08, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Surpassing Super Saiyan can connotate a number of things, technically an "Ultra Super Saiyan" surpasses a Super Saiyan. Also, with the exception of Teen Gohan, it is next to impossible to differentiate a regular Super Saiyan from an ascended Super Saiyan, or Super Saiyan 2. The only deffinitive way is to look for the lightening bolts in the Manga. As for this, I don't know when he first went Super Saiyan 2, I didn't read the entire DBZ manga.Adroa (talk) 22:27, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] First Super Saiya-jin

Hi all, first time discussing a Wiki entry. Anyway onto the topic.

In the second paragraph of the forms and transformations section there is the line:

Goku is the first[citation needed] Saiyan in the series to achieve the legendary transformation of Super Saiyan in over a millennium.

I feel the citation needed link is unnecessary. Goku is the first character to perform that transformation in the series. At times that fact is disputed but lets look at the other commonly cited possibilities:

Lets assume as it commonly is, that the manga is the canon source and contradictions in the anime or movies are overridden.

Broly Mirai Trunks (Future Trunks)
While it is possible he attained SSJ1 off screen before Goku did, the movies are not considered canon and are not consistent with the manga (Or even the anime for that matter). On screen we only meet him long after Goku has himself reached SSJ1 In the alternate timeline Goku succomes to the heart disease and dies. However, previous to that change there is no reason to assume that events transpired differently to the main timeline. Thus there is no reason to assume Goku didn't fight Frieza on Namek and attain SSJ1 there before Gohan and Trunks.

If a manga citation is needed to verify the statement its self, someone who has the manga should be able to cite a page reference for Vegetas' statement about the last Super Saiya-Jin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.198.26.150 (talk) 18:55, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

True. Broly is a character whom was created outside of the original Dragon Ball story, therefore he doesn't count as a "real" character in the continuity of Dragon Ball. The quote is in volume 8 (or Dragon Ball volume 24), I however, don't posess the manga, therefore I can't site the actual quote. There's no way that Trunks achieved Super Saiyan prior to Goku, he wasn't even born until 4 years after Goku's first transformation. And also Mirai Trunks's existence in the primary time line starts the second that he arrives in the time line, not before; which happened one year after Goku's first transformation. --VorangorTheDemon 02:18, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I recall Vegeta saying that Goku must be the first Super Saiyan in 3000years. Repeat, 3000 years. Goku wasn't actually the first Super Saiyan, the Legendary Super Saiyan Broly was. Even check DBZ manga volume 8, chapter "Super Saiyan?!". You'll see. You can't argue with that piece of information. Son Gohan (talk) 16:09, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

As for futur Trunks, Trunks himself says "It's a radical disease that not even a Super Saiyan can fight" which I believe is evidence enough to the fact that Goku is a super saiyan in his timeline. There is also the fact Trunk's went all out Super Saiyan Samura on him based purely on the stories he had heard about his strength. Another fact is when Trunks returned to their timeline once again he commented on how much the timeline had deviated with the appearance of the new Androids, I think he would have mentioned something about Goku being a super saiyan being different. As far as the "true Super Saiyain" thing goes, I think we've run into something that rarely occurs in anime (and RPGs), A legend that isn't 100% true. I say we don't call it an inconsistency, but a legend that wasn't entirely true, and based on what we have to go on, all we can so factually is that there is no one true Super Saiyan. As for the "legendary Super Saiyan" status, I think the closest we can come is Goku's Golden Oozaru, as that form actually resembles the Super Saiyan from Vegeta's little speech the most.Adroa (talk) 22:17, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Relatives list

I was thinking that Goku's extended relatives is probably cruft. Like Mr. Satan, Gyuu Maioyu <--(???), and Videl. I think we should keep it exclusive to blood family and immediate family (Chi Chi and perhaps Grandpa Son Gohan who aren't blood). Thoughts? --VorangorTheDemon 23:07, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Though I have no idea what the term 'cruft' means, I think the entire thing should be shortened and the immediate family put together. Otherwise all relationships ( including immediate ) be stated on thier personal page. And unless I'm mistaken I think you got you're time wrong.--[[User:SxeFluff|--69.150.75.230 00:49, 26 September 2007 (UTC)]] 19:48, 25 september 2007

Cruft is a term used on Wikipedia to express the irrelevence of certain information. Or in simpler terms, info that is only important or understandable to fans of the series, and not general readers. And I use the four tides HTML code for my time, so mine is automatically done. Just sign ~~~~ at the end of you're comment, and it converts those four tides to your name (In your case, you're IP address)when you hit "save page". --VorangorTheDemon 16:52, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Temperament

"Goku does not possess the typical behavioral traits of the race, such as extreme aggression and ruthless behavior, this is due to head trauma and amnesia that he received during his childhood on Earth." I wish this wasn't in here. I think Master Roshi said this in Dragon Ball Z, but it's a weird and dubious addition to Goku's life story. In the original Dragon Ball Goku was naturally gentle. The brain damage storyline/theory seems to be contradicted by the behavior of Goku's two children who if anything seem to be even more peaceful than he is. So unless they both hit their heads really hard in a spaceship crash when they were infants too... Also in the Brolly movie Goku is shown crying excessively while the "normal" Saiyen doesn't cry at all.

I think someone who has seen all three Dragon Ball series should write a section about the disparities in Goku's character among each show. There are much bigger differences than the head thing. I mean in the first series Goku was very much the son of a Monkey God, not an alien. And don't give me that "he was an alien the entire time" bit. If they made another Dragon Ball show where they discovered Goku was a robot the whole time would that make him any less of a Saiyen when he was in Dragon Ball Z? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.31.64.54 (talk) 22:17, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

That's why it's stated that Toriyama didn't intend Dragon Ball to be an ongoing story, therefore Goku's history isn't the same as regular Saiyans, or superheroes for that matter. --VorangorTheDemon 12:46, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Does Goku have the ability to go Super Saiyan 2 in Dragonball GT? Cause if so, he never did. Kazi22 11:25, 11 October 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.7.239.237 (talk)

He can transform into SS2, he just doesn't do it in the series.--60 Delta 17:39, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
No one is confirmed to have turned SSj2 in GT, even though there is physical evidence in the series. But this could also just be the part of the vast void of random plotholes created by Toei, everyone argues that both Trunks and Goten also turned SSj2, but no one has ever been confirmed, not even Vegeta or Gohan. And also, this discussion at this time seems like one seen on a forum. We should discuss things about the article, not trivial subjects such as this. --VorangorTheDemon 15:14, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
Right.--60 Delta 17:45, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Someone seriously needs to revamp the personality section. --Ramenguitar 6:24, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Why, what's wrong with it?--60 Delta 02:07, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree because we need to know something about Goku's History. Kazi22 18:40, 17 October 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.7.239.237 (talk)

[edit] Pages for books

Can someone add the pages for the references in this article? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 20:24, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:DragonballZ-Episode287 188.jpg

Image:DragonballZ-Episode287 188.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 10:37, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Failed Nomination of this article

I have failed this article for the following reasons.

  • Article does not mention the character's actions inside the series the Character takes part in.
  • There are not enough references to assert notability.
  • There is simply not enough content for a subject that has so much to write about.
  • Images could use replacement to better versions.

That about sums it up. This article could become a Good article in time but right now it is not up to snuff. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 21:59, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:DragonballZ-Episode287 188.jpg

Image:DragonballZ-Episode287 188.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 12:46, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chi?

Since when did K become Ch. Last I checked Dragon Ball was written in Japan, in Japanese, as opposed to China, in Chinese. Can someone clarify this strange and disturbing twist? Because I can watch Seasons 1 and 2 of Dragon Ball Z and find dozens of instances using "Ki" and absolutely 0 using "Chi".205.209.70.128 (talk) 15:15, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

I've been wondering the same thing. All throughout DBZ/GT, they specifically say "ki" ("key"), not "chi". One example is Bebi talking as Goku first goes SSJ4: "...kono ki wa...!" -- RattleMan (talk) 16:02, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Viz supposedly use "chi", for what that's worth. Then again, they also use "Vegerot", "Pocus" and a dozen other bizarre terms we'd better ignore. 134.129.203.26 07:49, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Ok 2 things

one.

can we have both the english and japanese names of goku's techniques because it can be quite confusing for new readers

two. where is there any mention any where on the internet that there is an upcoming live action film? —Preceding unsigned comment added by S02178 (talk • contribs) 00:47, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

There was at one point a full listing of Goku's techniques; you can check the page history to find that. The live-action movie was mentioned on IGN and CHUD, I believe. Not much of the film has been confirmed yet, though. At least, I don't think so--C. ROSS 22:15, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


yeah but what i'm talking about is a english listing of all his moves in english

as well as japaneseS02178 (talk) 03:48, 14 December 2007 (UTC)s02178

Again, just check the page history--C. ROSS 17:48, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Goku appears in every movie, that's why the list was removed.

[edit] Superman "fact"

Someone keeps re-adding the "fact" that Goku is an "anime version of Superman". I removed it because that statement, although mostly true, is purely opinion based. Also the sources provided don't actually cite a connection to Goku; the sources are only examples of how Superman is similar to Goku.--VorangorTheDemon (talk) 11:37, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Goku jap/dub difference?

Is it worth noting the difference in character of Son Goku in the original and the dub? I find that this article discusses the original Goku, which if left alone is perfectly fine because it IS the original. However the dub Goku was somewhat more inspirational (in my opinion only though, so no sources there sorry). In the dub, Goku was someone who fought to protect, in comparison to his original counterpart who fought for the fun of it. A good example is when he defeats Vegeta for teh first time in DBZ. In the original, Goku let him go because he wanted a chance to fight him again without any help. But in the dub; he let him go because he was a merciful warrior, something Vegeta would berate him for. Then again, in the original; Goku comes off as more of a goofy character, and so it adds to the comedy when Goku 'unintentionally' converts many of the villains into heros because he lets them live to fight them again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.21.154.109 (talk) 07:13, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

The difference in his character for the dub as opposed to the original can't really be sourced, also it would violate WP:OR. --VorangorTheDemon (talk) 16:03, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. As per WP:NOR, we cant add this. But I must say that your research is pretty much interesting. Actually I didnt know these things. UzEE (Talk • Contribs) 18:42, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

It is rather noticable, usually there is a change of character between mangas and their anime counter-parts, but not usually in translations. But no I don't have any sources. If the GT series counts, theres an example where Pan has a flashback of her at the beach and being afraid of the sea. In the original, Goku reassures her, saying that people has probably peed in it anyway. But in the dub, he reassures her stating that he was once afraid of the sea himself. Its not DB related, but the best anime-manga difference in character I can think of (other than Fullmetal Alchemist, where almost all of the characters are COMPLETELY different from their anime/manga counter-parts) is Onizuka from GTO. In the manga, he becomes a teacher so he can hit on young girls, whereas in the anime; he becomes a teacher so he can change the teaching system. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DrTheKay (talk • contribs) 13:19, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, but regardless, unless someone from FUNI gives an interview to state the stuff that's different (and why), we can't add it. Also if we add comparisons from Funi, then we'd have to add stuff from the Ocean dub, Malaysian Dub, ect. It would be a mess, not to mention would violate WP:NOR completely. For example, in my opinion, Vegeta is crazier and more sadistic in the Ocean Dub then in Funi because of the things that he says, but that's simply my opinion. The purpose of Wikipedia is to take actual facts and report them, not to take actual facts and manipulate them so that they justify our own veiws. --VorangorTheDemon (talk) 13:36, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
In other words, articles would quickly fall into the CRUFT-Cleanup-CITE cycle. We are pretty close to getting Goku to a good article I dont want to take any risks. I would say Vorgangor has worked to much on this article to get it into this shape and I agree with him on this case. UzEE (Talk • Contribs) 14:05, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vorangor's strange edits

What is all this? Why de-italisize foreign terms? That goes against WP:MOS guidelines. Why change the abilities section to an inconsistent name (ie, different header than the other character articles)? Since when is the Fusion not a technique? And why claim something from the Daizenshū without citing the page(s)? Vorangor, please explain what you want to do before these edits are inserted. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 01:26, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

They actually aren't strange edits, and since its apparent that you haven't read the section's title correctly, it is not titled "techniques", it is titled "abilities". Techniques and abilities are not the same thing, techniques refer specifically to his fighting while abilities refers to a lesser detailed, more universal look at his character, not only the fighting aspect. Also my main issue with that section is that the section is pretty much a list of his techniques (something that we all decided on long ago fell under WP:CRUFT), just in a different format (being paragraph format). As for the de-italicizing, that wasn't intentional. As for the Daizenshuu "refs", I don't own the Daizenshuu and I don't actually know anyone outside the internet that does, I however have met people on-line that do own it, and use it as reference in discussions. As for the fusion thing, like I said via Edit summary: Fusion is not an ability, it is a technique, which I have already established isn't the same thing. Transformation is an ability, creating energy waves and being able to manipulate his ki is an ability, the actual techniques ("Fusion" being a technique) are not. You seem pretty pissed off, but I'm simply editing with the same intensity that you do; both you and I seem to have annoyingly anal editing styles. Cruft is a serious issue on these articles and I'm doing my best to eliminate most of it, and listing off the techniques falls into that category. --VorangorTheDemon (talk) 12:36, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
I don't understand what you're talking about. What have I misunderstood? If you are going to cite the Daizenshū as references, give the {{page number}} and/or {{ISBN}} but please don't place the sentences where the sentence(s) are already referenced (even with <ref>{Source}</ref>). You say the de-italisising wasn't intentional, so why did you do it? There is no more cruft here, I destroyed all of that. If you take off his abilities, Goku can't be categorized as a Z-Fighter, we need them as a source for the categories. And I don't get why you keep saying fusion isn't a technique/ability, when Goku himself says it is (Dragon Ball Z manga, vol. 23, chapt. 275, page 135. ISBN 978-1-4215-0148-2). Here's the difference between technique and ability. Dende even says fusion is a specialty of some race called the Metamors. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 20:39, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
How can you not understand that most of the "abilities" section falls under WP:CRUFT? Simply listing off technique names was decided on to fall under WP:CRUFT ages ago. You're the one who I understood enforced the WP:CRUFT policy the most strongly out of any member working on this project, I don't understand why you're trying to keep crufty material in articles now. Why can't we just say that Goku has learned to teleport or multiply his ki with several different techniques, or he has the ability to transform into several different states that increase his physical abilities? Just stating that he has those abilities eliminates cruft all together. Also as I've already established, the abilities section is exclusively based on his fighting, it doesn't talk about other aspects of his character. No where in the aritcle is it mentioned that Goku is pure of heart, or that with most Toriyama characters, Goku's appitite is massive. It doesn't mention that Goku early on was naive enough to not even know his own age or the difference between boys and girls. This page is becoming simple eye-candy for a fans by simply listing off the names of his techniques that general readers could honestly give two sh*ts about. It is not structured like a Wikipeida article should be. These are the reasons that we have NEVER been able to make GA with any of the aritcles on this project. And if we can find reference to it, we need to expand the article, such as mentioning more about Sun Wukong and intended alternate versions of Goku (Tullece for example, who was intended as an alternate Universe Goku, if Goku didn't become good), or even fan reciprocation of Goku. Also I said that Fusion IS a technique, not an ability. You don't need to have some kind of natural predisposition to perform it. --VorangorTheDemon (talk) 23:02, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
WP:CRUFT this, WP:CRUFT that, ... the guideline says absolutely nothing about removing a fictional character's abilities. What I refer to as cruft is garbage like this, this, this, and this. It appears that you are attempting to degrade the article many (including I) have worked hard on. Yamucha has passed WP:GAC because of improvements that I and others have done there. Trust me, I know what I'm doing. I will take some of your good edits into consideration. Okay? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 00:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
You know what, fuck this. One of the reasons people left was because of you (I've talked to them outside Wikipedia), and now I'm so fed up with this bullshit that I'm leaving too. I've spent a fuckin year so getting these articles to this point and I'm just so sick of this shit that it's finally pushed me to the breaking point. I'll still be editing on Wikipeida, but editing the Dragon Ball ariticles is driving me fuckin insane, I simply can't do it anymore. Goodbye. --VorangorTheDemon (talk) 21:57, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
I understand the top edit, but the rest don't even make sense. I'm not trying to be the bad guy here, these changes basically... suck. I'll be more than happy to reinsert some of these so long as you explain why. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 22:18, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Appearance

I was just looking at Goku clothes, and found that it doesn't state that he wears weighted clothes, as does Piccolo. I saw this in an english cartoon, and found it shocking that it was not on Wikipedia. I'm not sure of the episode, but I think it was in the Cell Saga, but I may be wrong. If anyone with the episodes of the Cell Saga (the best I can do is youtube, and I'm almost positive that information from there will not be allowed), then please help me. If anyone has any complaints, then please let me know! I lack the references and skill needed to edit it.--TriCheeseSorrow (talk) 05:14, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

He did wear weighted clothes for a time during the Piccolo Jr. Saga until the beginning of the Saiyan Saga but that was it. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 16:58, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Oh, okay. Thanks for the info, now I see why it's not included.--TriCheeseSorrow (talk) 21:00, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Son Goku has worn weighted clothing since the beginning of the Piccolo Jr. Saga all the way throughout the Majin Boo Saga, apart from the Goku-Uub fight. In DBZ manga volume 1, when Piccolo throws away his weighted cape and turban, Goku said, "Piccolo, you wore weighted clothing too?" There, you have it. And also, when Goku was training with North Kaio (or King Kai), when Goku took off his weighted clothing to catch Bubbles, North Kaio, said in the manga "Oh, and put those weighted clothes back on, it'll be better exercise that way." Something along those lines, anyway. Gohan The Avenger (talk) 15:56, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Piccolo also said in response to Goku discovering about Piccolo's weighted clothing, "As do you, boy..." Son Gohan (talk) 16:11, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Why Can't We Use English Names?

Honestly, using english names would make it easier for non die-hards to understand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kazaan (talk • contribs)

You'll get better reception from members at WP:WPDB, as this may not be the best place. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 04:56, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
We are supposed to use English names by Wikipedia guidelines and policies. The members of the Dragon Ball project think they are above the guidelines and always team up to get their way. The article on Krillin (his OFFICIAL English name and the one almost always used) should be at Krillin, not "Kuririn". I think some sweeping changes need to be made since the members of the Dragon Ball wikiproject will just gang up to stop people from correcting the Dragon Ball articles. I love Dragon Ball, but stopped editing the articles for this reason (I got sick of dealing with people who think we should use the Japanese names rather than the correct and common English names even though Wikipedia guidelines say to use the English names).

BTW, I Oppose the move request that someone filed at WP:RM for this reason. TJ Spyke 20:31, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

TJ, what move request are you talking about? And what's wrong with utilising the English manga names and the ones Steve Simmons (and his team) translated in the Japanese audio English-subtitled anime? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 06:05, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
He's talking about a few days ago when someone moved Son Goku (Dragon Ball) to Goku (Dragon Ball). And I'm sick of all these people saying that it's not his English name, because it IS his English name; it is his manga English name. And I'd like to point out FUNI isn't the only English dub of Dragon Ball out there, there are several English dubs, and one even changed Goku's name to Zero (Harmony Gold Dub). Therefore if we were to follow that guideline, "Zero" would have just as much right to be the title of the article as Goku, Gokuu, or Gokuh. This is why we resort to manga names because there isn't several official translated versions of English manga, there's only one (VIZ). --VorangorTheDemon (talk) 11:20, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Don't forget Simmons' now. We're using some of his names too, like Yamucha. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 20:14, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
True Sesshomaru, but atleast we aren't going to be so anal about it that we use a directly translated version of their romanized names, like Furiiza, Burori, Bejita, or Son Gokuh. --VorangorTheDemon (talk) 05:27, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Actually, he didn't go as far as romaji names. The official subtitles still represented "Freeza", "Broli", "Vegeta", and "Son Goku". Thinks it's safe to say that the man was consistent. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 05:47, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Why are some Dragon Ball characters given their English names (Raditz, Vegeta) and others given their Japanese names (Yamucha)? It doesn't seem consistent to me. Krezos (talk) 22:51, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Correction: "Raditz" and "Vegeta" are English translated names used in the Viz manga and in the Japanese anime with English subs. "Yamucha", on the other hand, is a English translated name not used in the manga, but used in the Japanese anime with English subs. WP:WPDB is utilising the two available sources for consistency, not just one of them. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 23:35, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
So they all appear in the Japanese anime with English subtitles, if I understood that correctly? In that case it makes perfect sense. Thanks for the clarification, Sesshomaru.--- Krezos (talk) 01:45, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Don't mention it ;) Do you happen to own any of the Dragon Ball DVDs by FUNimation? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 01:51, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
No, sorry - I do plan on getting them, however. They contain the Japanese anme with subtitles as well as the dub, correct? --- Krezos (talk) 01:57, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
That's right. It's pretty much impossible finding them [DVDs] in stores. Might I suggest eBay? You'll need to create an account though. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 02:00, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Okay, thanks for the advice. About the Japanese attack names - do the subtitles translate those? (Apart from Kamehameha etc. - the obvious ones) --- Krezos (talk) 02:03, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
I actually use the manga for that since I find it faster than skimming through the DVD. And since you're a fan, care to join our Dragon Ball WikiProject? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 02:05, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Sure. I add the box to my userpage? How do I do that? --- Krezos (talk) 02:06, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Pick a box, then copy-paste it onto your user page. Simple. Did you want me to do it for you? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 02:11, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
I've got it now, just can't align it correctly on my userpage. Also I added my name to the list on the WikiGroup page--- Krezos (talk) 02:12, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Hey, you aligned it for me. Thanks! --- Krezos (talk) 02:18, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome. Hope to see you around a lot. Make sure you read the policies and guidelines ok? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 02:21, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

I'll read the guidelines now, and then I'll call it a night (it's 3:21 AM here). See you around, Sesh. --- Krezos (talk) 02:24, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Have a good one. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 02:26, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Can't we just use the original manga names, like Son Goku, Son Gohan, Kuririn, Yamcha, Tenshinhan, Chaozu, Muten Roshi and others? Wouldn't that be OK? 92.12.239.241 (talk) 12:57, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

It is impossible for the name Son Goku to be of more help to people who do not read the manga or watch the anime.
  1. Using Goku makes it understandable to everyone who knows who Goku is.
  2. The short-hand name (or to most eyes, the whole name) is more common to the average Wikipedia reader.
It's about convenience. Both Goku and Son Goku are correct. Because of this, the only question is "which is better for the convenience of the reader - and most importantly, the reader whose knowledge of the series is limited or nonexistent?". The answer should be the one that is more common, and as anyone can observe, simply "Goku" is more used than Son Goku. - A Link to the Past (talk) 18:59, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

92.12.239.241, we are using the original names. Or are you suggesting that we should only adhere to the Viz ones? And Link, have you seen the hatnote? That settled the whole "Goku" contest. However, if you don't agree with WP:DBZ's choice of rules, please take it up there. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 19:15, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

You seem to encourage the use of the English subtitles, but I'm not sure how putting the English dub under the Japanese subtitles is helpful to the reader. - A Link to the Past (talk) 19:25, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

If you're going to revive old conversations, read this first. You might have your questions answered for you.--Koji†Dude (C) 20:48, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I see. However, that FAQ does not establish any reason why it's done. WP:DB does not have the ability to make its own guidelines and policies that go against what site-wide guidelines and policies establish. It's STILL a question of helping readers - one objective of Wikipedia is to be as helpful as possible to people who read the articles. Despite asking several times, no one explains how using the Japanese-translated names is of help to anyone who does not watch the anime or read the manga. Will someone please give me an answer? - A Link to the Past (talk) 23:49, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
? We didn't make up any policies or guidelines. And we did answer your question. We use the japanese subtitled names because they are the most accurate names we have access to without literally using the japanese names. Its for the sake of being encyclopedic, not making it easy for one particular group of people to understand.--Koji†Dude (C) 23:56, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
That is a guideline - it is an anime guideline. If it wasn't a guideline, you wouldn't see people citing it as the reason they do it.
And being the most accurate name is not helpful to the reader. If readers didn't exist, Wikipedia wouldn't exist. The most accurate as well as the most common name is preferred for the sake of the reader. - A Link to the Past (talk) 00:03, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Readers don't expect to be treated nice by an encyclopedia, they expect to get information from it. The same goes for Wikipedia. If you contest that, then this isn't the place to voice your opinion. (see WP:POINT) We use the accurate names for the sake of the reader, so that he/she can get the accurate information that they were looking for when they decided to read the article.--Koji†Dude (C) 00:08, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Um, actually, Wikipedia DOES make it a point to be helpful to readers. Wikipedia naming conventions says to use the most common English name, and I do not believe Son Goku to be the most common English name. And I find it curious that you essentially described the anime names as inaccurate. I know you have preferences, but keep them off of Wikipedia - inaccurate strictly from the point of "they are not direct translations", but accurate in the point of being the most well-known name given to the character. - A Link to the Past (talk) 00:14, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Wether or not something is "well-known" has absolutley nothing to do with wether or not it is accurate. Its "well-known" that Chuck Norris's tears can cure cancer, but that doesn't make it true.--Koji†Dude (C) 00:21, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
...? By the fact that FUNi owns the rights to the anime, they are given the legal right to call Son Goku "Goku". Because the English anime dub belongs to them, it is considered accurate. To say that it is inaccurate is POV. - A Link to the Past (talk) 00:24, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
FUNimation is an american company that owns the rights to the English dub featured on American networks, not the actual names of the characters themselves.--Koji†Dude (C) 00:27, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
The country of origin is irrelevant. The ownership of the characters is irrelevant. Unless TOEI objects to the FUNimation dub names, then they are accurate. They are official English names. The only way to dispute the usage of the English dub names is to present another territory's official English names and provide an explanation why these take credence over the American names. - A Link to the Past (talk) 00:31, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
The origin of the company and their rights is relevant. FUNimation does not own the rights to the characters or their names. Akira Toriyama does, and he specified the English version of his character's names for the English subtitles of the Japanese DVD's. If I make a character called Steve in a manga, and a European country calls him Jim, that doesn't mean they take precedene over the name I created.--Koji†Dude (C) 00:38, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
If it was on a European Wiki, it would be the name used for the sole reason that to Europeans, that IS the official name for the character. It is unhelpful to use a name most people are not familiar with.
FUNimation owns the rights to the English dub. Akira Toriyama can't walk over, beat up everyone from FUNimation, and tell them the dub is wrong. He HASN'T done that, because he does not take issue with it.
FUNimation was given permission to localize the series. They were never required to use any of the original names, they were never required to do a direct translation of the dub, so until TOEI or Toriyama raise issue with the name, you saying that it's not official does not become "it's unofficial". These are the official American names for the characters, and "being American" doesn't limit their accuracy in any way. There is no Wikipedia policy or guideline that suggests such a thing.
But let me clarify - Dragon Ball is licensed by FUNimation. They reserve the rights to localize it how they please. You taking issue with the dub doesn't matter one bit, the fact that Toriyama or TOEI have not taken issue with them is the one most relevant fact. Son Goku is helpful to people who are already accustomed to the series, and Goku is helpful to those who are not (and the latter are the most important readers on Wikipedia as far as the DB editors are confirmed). Goku IS accurate. Until you can provide a legitimate reason why the American translators do not have the right to give the characters their own names. This is their official translation, and by the matter of the fact that FUNimation reserves the right to translate as they see fit, it is an accurate English name. Bird Studio and TOEI are the only organizations that have the ability to make such a judgment call on the translation - and barring them doing so, choosing to stick with direct translations of names cannot be based on the idea that FUNi's dub is not official. - A Link to the Past (talk) 00:52, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
And may I add this - "Sometimes, English usage is divided. For example, US newspapers generally referred to the Olympics in Torino, following official handouts. However, newspapers in other parts of the English speaking world still use Turin. Use what would be the least surprising to a user finding the article. Whichever is chosen, one should place a redirect at the other title and mention both forms in the lead." This is exactly that. Son Goku is an official usage, and perhaps it's the official usage in other English-speaking regions. But this does not mean that it should be used - the entry that would be the least surprising to a user finding the article is preferred, according to naming conventions. And since the anime was much more advertised, and much more commercially available, and on top of that, most if not all of the merchandise based on the series is based on the anime, it is more than likely the most commonly observed version of the series. The only REAL way to overcome this argument is to explain why Goku is not the most well-known name for the character. - A Link to the Past (talk) 01:03, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

If you're arguing about moving this article to Goku (Dragon Ball), you're going down the wrong path. The name of this article is derived from their choice to also follow the English manga along with whatever else they're doing. You should be arguing that the anime and other pieces of media outweigh the manga in this case. Personally, I don't really think it matters which way the names go, but it should be consistent. If the English manga is used, all applicable names should come from it, rather than picking and choosing them. TTN (talk) 01:09, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I have been arguing against both. The anime is the most common medium for the series in English-dominant regions, and because of that, the names used in the most common version of the anime would be preferred. - A Link to the Past (talk) 01:11, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
You should probably try the Anime and Manga project or an RfC at this point if you haven't tried already. I doubt you'll get anything changed by arguing here. TTN (talk) 01:19, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Justin Chatwin?

why do I get my edit deleted? I added Chatwin to the Voice Actors list, yes I know technically it's not voice but I will put that it's live action :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.193.154.117 (talk) 06:33, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Please read Justin Chatwin's article. No indication that he plays the voice of the character. And read #Appearances in other media. All sources say otherwise. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 06:44, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Live Action Film

Is there a way we could move the reference to the Live Action Film into the Character Template? I know it's important and all, but one sentence doesn't really merit it's own section.--KojiDude (Contributions) 20:46, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

You mean the infobox? Some vandal was trying to do that, incorrectly labeling Justin Chatwin as a voice actor, repeatedly at that. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 20:15, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GT stuff

I don't get the removal of the GT stuff. I mean, to my memory it happened in the TV show. But who knows, maybe I'm just going senial (I am pushing 20 these days). I don't see how it's un-verifyable if millions of people saw it and another million or so probably own it on DVD.--KojiDude (Contributions) 04:36, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

It probably did happen, but you have to understand that we can't add content without sourcing it. Example, List of Blood+ characters is nicely referenced. I'm trying to keep this page "clean", an addition of data which is not accompanied by a WP:SOURCE is not helping. Question is, who will cite the GT edits? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 05:09, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
I know about WP:SOURCE, but what I'm asking is what in the fudge McNuggets are we supposed to cite? Put in little bracets "[watch fuckin' TV]"? If we cite anything as a source it will probably just be another fuckin' website with the same summary that doesn't have a source besides the show either. GT wasn't based off a manga so we don't have anything to show. You want me to go find a copy of the fuckin' script or somethin'?--KojiDude (Contributions) 23:50, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Koji, I have spoken to the editor who had inserted the data and (s)he said that it would be referenced the next time. And while the cursing doesn't bother me, sarcasm, on the other hand, is inappropriate and uncooperative. I'm only trying to help here and if you notice the page's recent history, I've been keeping this page from violating policies. Rules are rules. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 00:25, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, sorry about the sarcasm. I'm American. It's kind of involuntary. Anyway, I don't know where (s)he is gonna come up with refrences, but if s(he) said it'll be taken care of then I guess I don't have to worry about it anymore.--KojiDude (Contributions) 00:47, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Age?

Anyone want to calculate his age? Many of the other character's ages are listed for the series. Obviously he didn't age in the traditional sense when he was dead though, which is for much of the series. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vaughnstull (talk • contribs)

Vaughnstull, no orignal research. We are not allowed to "calculate" anything per policy. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 20:50, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I heard somewhere that Goku is around the same age as Vegeta, as Toriyama stated in an interview that Vegeta was 29 when he arrived on Earth. Then again, that's just opinion, not fact. Meaning that Goku might've been the same age as Vegeta. Son Gohan (talk) 16:14, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Actually Vegeta is at least several years older than Goku, as flashbacks show Vegeta as an Adolescent capable of speech (and killing Saibamen) long before the destruction of Vegeta, and by Bardock father of Goku we know Goku was an infant, most likely less than a week old when Frieza blew the Saiyans to kingdom come. If we compare them physically, Goku resembles vegeta's age(when Vegeta was blown up) when Goku was around 13. My guess is that Goku is at least ten years younger than Vegeta, and therefore not worth noting. I also vaguely remember hearing something about Goku being around 19 at the beginning of Dragonball Z (though I may be misinformed). --Adroa —Preceding comment was added at 21:58, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I've just realized that. I think I can work out his age, if he really was 19 at the beginning of Dragon Ball Z. Which means that when he fought Piccolo (at the end of Dragon Ball), he was 14, seeing as it was a five-year gap between the end of Dragon Ball and the beginning of Dragon Ball Z. However, Goku actually looks older than he is. After defeating Raditz, Goku trains for one year under the teachings of North Kaio. He'd be 20 around the time he fights Nappa and Vegeta, and Vegeta has been said by Akira Toriyama that Vegeta was 29 when he arrived on Earth (making him at least nine years older than Goku). After the death of Freeza, Goku returns to Earth after one and a half year, making him 21. Three years later, Goku, Piccolo and Gohan train together for the threat of the Androids, Goku turning 24 and Gohan being 9, dunno about Piccolo though. 7 years after the Cell Games, Goku returns from the Other World to Earth for the World Tournament, becoming 31 (since years don't count in the Other World). Ten years later after Boo's demise, Goku is 41 years old, and fights a ten-year-old reincarnated Boo, a boy named Uub. According to speculation, between the end of Z and the start of GT, there was a ten year gap, making Goku 51. Phew, that was long. Lord Piccolo (talk) 17:36, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Creation and Conception, use of Saiya-jin

Why is saiya-jin used instead of Saiyan in this section? Everywhere else in the article Saiyan is used. For consistency it should be changed to Saiyan. Grawgzor (talk) 22:43, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Problem solved. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 05:32, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I am not autoconfirmed. New problem, now it reads "Goku is an extraterrestrial called Saiyan from." Maybe an "a" before the saiyan? Grawgzor (talk) 14:55, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

The top paragraph uses "Goku is from a fictional race of extraterrestrials called Saiyans". Should we do the same there? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 22:25, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

No, the top paragraph is using the plural, it doesn't need it. But "Called Saiyan" needs to be "called a saiyan."Grawgzor (talk) 03:15, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I was proposing a copy-paste from the top. You ok with that? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 04:20, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Technique List

Where did the list of Goku's attacks/techniques go and why was it removed? That little paragraph only covers a handful of attacks, leaving many out. I know Wiki frowns on lists and stuff, but how else are you going to cover everything? -Krendall (talk) 17:29, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Our job is not to cover every detail possible. That's what Dragon Ball wiki is for. Here we note the most significant information and remove any instance of WP:FANCRUFT. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 18:01, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Power Levels

Um, where did the power level information for Son Goku and Son Gohan go? Yeah, I know some of them were inaccurate, but it was nice to learn from some of the credible power level information. I mean, I know it's impossible to decipher what Goku's true power level at Kaioken x3 was, since Bulma's scouter broke before he could reach full power, but still, Goku's power level was at 5000 when he was heading towards the battlefield in the Saiyan Saga, even Vegeta's scouter said so (or read so). All I ask is that you leave the credible information noted in the manga. Gohan The Avenger (talk) 16:02, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Because of WP:OR and the innacuracy. Also, take a look at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Power level (Dragon Ball) (second nomination).--Koji†Dude (C) 16:08, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
No, what I mean is only put the accurate power level information. Read the manga, you'll find lots of information about power levels, even look at the Saiyan Saga and Freeza Saga page. And no-one can forget Vegeta saying "It's over 9000!!!" Gohan The Avenger (talk) 16:15, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
True, but it doesn't merit its own section. It's mostly WP:CRUFT. If you know the exact chapter and page of the manga, you can put a short referecne to it somewhere in the article.--Koji†Dude (C) 16:17, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Hmph. Well, thank you for supporting me, Koji, but some idiot named "Unquestionable Truth" seems to find that putting important power level information on characters' bios is "vandalism". I did all that hard work referencing the power levels to the specific volumes, chapters and pages, all for some bum-headed loser to go and erase it all, and then say if I ever do it again, they'll block me! God, I won't even bother next time... Gohan The Avenger (talk) 18:42, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

I understand that you're under some stress here, but I think you should read WP:NPA. Calling a person "idiot" or "loser" is usually seen as offensive, and could get you blocked as well.--Koji†Dude (C) 18:49, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. The power levels are just WP:FANCRUFT at this point in time. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 04:21, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Um, what I'd like to know is where did the person who put down these power levels get the original source from? I'm doing an estimated power level guide and I'd appreciate it! And can the original sources be true ones? Son Gohan (talk) 12:41, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Son Gohan, the power levels can be noted in the infobox (like at Yamucha and Tenshinhan) but there should not be a non-notable section on them, even if it is with "sources". Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 16:13, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

You know, even those power levels are not accurate. Like, it's never told what Kuririn's maximum power level was in the manga, or for that matter, in the anime either. In Dragon Ball Z volume 2, Kuririn's power level in the Saiyan Saga is 1083, Piccolo's is 1220, and Gohan's is 981. I know, I've got the manga! And most likely, the sources that people got them from are probably fan sites from people with no credible information, although the power levels are likely. Son Gohan (talk) 16:35, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh, don't worry, I've found out about the Daizenshuu's. No prob. Son Gohan (talk) 16:13, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Just a note, when including this information I think it would be best to inclulde the fact that the Japanese and English power levels do not always coincide. Also include that Power levels became highly inconsistent as the series went on. Adroa —Preceding comment was added at 22:02, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Goku in Other Media

Hey guys, I just thought that you should add something to the page about Goku. It's not huge, but I think it's worth mentioning. In the movie "The 40-Year Old Virgin", whenever Andy is packing away his collectible toys to sell, you can clearly see a Super Saiyan 4 Goku action figure on his bed. I just that was interesting and wondered if anyone thought it was worth mentioning. Anyone have any other instances of Goku appearing in other media? Shamgar129 (talk) 17:43, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

If you think it's good enough for a mentioning go for it ;) Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 21:39, 3 June 2008 (UTC)