Talk:Son Gohan/Archive 1

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What is this? -- Zoe

Gohan is a character in Dragon Ball Z. --Brion

Mystic Gohan

In my translation, Rou Dai Kaioshin states that it takes five hours to perform the power-up ritual, and that the effects last twenty hours. Is this just in mine, or is that what he actually says? Beowulph 05:27, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Your translation is wrong sorry, it takes 25 hours, 5 hours for the ceremonie and 20 hours to make Gohan Unlock His Full Potential. --Son Gokou 01:55, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

I am just wondering, scince it is not known whether or not Mystic is a power up or transformation, should we state it as that? I would like to know other peoples opinions on this topic. --User:Nsmith4658

Full/Permanent

Guys whatever, stop the edit-war. Most commonly used fan-name is Full Power. Use that one. Kusonaga 08:10, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

that's a long time.

Can you guys read?

Seriously, it's so stupid to contuinally change the honor and dignify as well as the Full Power/Permanent Distinction. Do I have to get an admin? Kusonaga 09:16, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

That might be best. This particular user who keeps changing things back to his version doesn't appear to be paying attention to any comments made in the edit summary about not changing things that shouldn't be changed. He will most likely continue this foolishness until somebody stops him. Please contact an Admin and have 68.122.219.139 told to stop the adding of false information. If he continues his behavior even after that, he may need to be banned.

--Daishokaioshin

Unnecessary Info about the Mystic power up

There is some unnecessary information about the Mystic power up. There are no facts about the power up during the GT saga, because he doesn't fight or has not fought in a long time. The same happened when he became an adult; he lost the motivation to transform into a SSJ2, so he weakened a bit when he did go SSJ2. Gohan was only half-saiyan, so he has half the fighting instinct of a saiyan. The other half was in the books.

Only the facts from the show or certain movies should be discussed, because fan information can get rediculous (SSJ5 for instance, even though Bulma mentioned this in the GT Saga)puk 00:11, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

I added the left-out information in the mystic section (3rd paragraph). We forgot that this mystic powerup was still asleep like all of his powerups and when fully awake, he's a force to be reckoned with. puk 00:32, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

In the case of Gohan turning SSJ2 in GT, wouldn't he be even more powerful since he was supposed to keep his "full" power for the rest of his life so wouldn't transforming into SSJ or SSJ2 make him even more powerful. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.159.81.118 (talk • contribs) .

Right, no one ever said Gohan couldn't turn SSJ after his "Mystic power-up", he just didn't need to while fighting Super Buu because it would use Ki energy that wasn't needed, he could still turn SSJ and there are more powerful enemies in GT that Gohan would need to turn SSJ. Duh.

Actually, if Gohan could still use SSJ, he would've done it against Super Buu w/ Gotenks.--Koji Dude 22:28, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

I think Gohan lost the mystic-power up when the earth was destroyed by kid buu and he died. Then when he's wished back (the earth is wished back) and his hair-bang that hangs down wasn't as straight it was more his normal state. Maybe THAT's why he didn't have mystic power-up in GT because he lost it when he died. And Elder Kai said something along the lines Gohan would keep this power till he dies. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.159.73.19 (talk • contribs) .

GT is not canon so anything that takes place there shouldn't be considered "real". I think we can assume Gohan keeps his powerup for the rest of his live.

Also, I belive Gohan could have turned SSj, but it would have no effect aside from changing his appareance, as he already uses all the power he has inside his body. --Black Omnimon 21:53, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Lineage

Just wondering if it's worth mentioning that Gohan is part demon. Considering that Chi-Chi's father is a demon. That bit is omitted from his name in the english dub, but his original name of Gyuu Mao means "Ox Demon King" (I've seen some Westernize that to "Demon King of the Oxen"). Onikage725 18:01, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Gohan is not part demon. Gyuu Mao is not a demon either. He is just a large human. The names of characters may have certain meanings, but that doesn't make them anything other than what they are. After all, Piccolo Daimao was repeatedly called a demon, even taking the title "Demon King Piccolo". He wasn't a demon at all, though. He was a namek. Just pointing out that not everything that is said should be taken literally.

Daishokaioshin 09:52, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Actually Piccolo is a poor excuse. Ma Junior was born naturally as a Namek (hence why he had the capicity for good), but Daimao is literally a being of pure evil. Kami shed his negative energy and it took form. Why else do you think every child of his aside from his "reincarnation" was a demon? Spawning those abominations isn't a normal Namekian ability. As for Gyuu Mao, I see your point. It certainly isn't elaborated on in the series. However it seems to me that given the tales of a pissed off Gyuu Mao eating passers by (hardly normal behavior for a normal person), and his daughter's natural aptitude for battle (which isn't fully explored only because she settles down as soon as she marries Goku), it seems that there's more beneath the surface than just human blood. Also, if you compare Gohan to Trunks (I'm thinking more Mirai, as neither Chibi Trunks or Goten faces the same dire circumstances without being fused), Gohan was capable of intense explosions of rage that granted him an nforseen amount of temporary power. Trunks never really showed that, only that he was somewhat stronger than his father. *whew long winded, gomen :p Onikage725 21:57, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Age

Alright, listen up Gohan was nine when the androids appeared, he spent a year in the time chamber, and had his eleventh birthday during the ten days preparing for the Cell Games, therefore at the time of the fight with Buu, would make him 18 years old. Jman5 22:05, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Actually, Gohan started the series at 6. He spent a year training with Piccolo, making him 7. There was at least another year after they got back from Namek, since the Namekian Dragon Balls recharge every half of an Earth year, and they were used three times, I think (the first time they were already charged because of Elder Muuri becoming the new caretaker of the Dragon Balls, so they didn't have to wait). That would make Gohan 8. There were three years of training for the Androids, making him 11, followed by another year in the Room of Spirit and Time. Gohan was then 12. 7 more years would make him 19. Since 19 is a bit old to just be starting high school (at least in America), most people argue and say Gohan was younger, just to fit their preconceptions of an acceptable age for him. And in the original Japanese version, Gohan was 4, not 6, so he would have been ten after his training in the Room of Spirit and Time, and 17 when he went to Satan City High School, which is a much closer age to when people actually attend high school.

Also, your information doesn't add up. If Gohan was 9 when the Androids showed up, then he would be ten after his training in the Room of Spirit and Time, just like in the original Japanese version. Either way, Gohan would not be 18.

Daishokaioshin 21:25, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

It does add up, buddy! That's why I stated "he had his eleventh birthday during the ten days preparing for the Cell Games." You need to read more closely next time. Jman5 22:05, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

It actually does add up dub-wise. They claimed he was 5 in the beginning (6 by the arrival of the Saiyans). Onikage725 01:39, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Ok, here: Gohan started out at age 5 1/2, as he states in the first episode of dbz, "Arrival of Raditz". He then spent a year of training with Piccolo, making him 6 1/2. After Namek Gohan is at age 7 1/2. At the beginning of the Androids saga he is somewhere between 10 and 11 years of age. During the 10 days before the Cell Games, Gohan has his 11th birthday, as stated in the episode "Memories of Gohan". 7 more years then pass thus making Gohan probably 18 years old. The year he spent in the time chamber I did not include, because since only a day had passed on the outside world, he only becomes a day older on the outside world, thus not affecting his overall age at all.

Note: Even if some of this is not true, the statement can be made that we know for a fact that he is 11 before he faces Cell. 7 more years pass therefore probably giving him an age of 18 during Buu Saga. Unsigned 04:55, 29 July Saturday (ET)

Gohan is not 5 1/2 at the beginning of the series, that is a dub mistake. He is 4. Look no further than the Japanese version or the manga for proof. (This was also corrected in the ultimate uncut edition dub.)

Raditz: 4 y.

Freeza: 5 y.

Trunks: 6 y.

Androids: 9 y.

Cell: 10 y. (because of the Room of Spirit and Time)

Saiya-Man: 17 y.

If you don't include the year spent in the RoSaT, he is 16 by the Saiya-man/Buu saga.--GeneralDuke 13:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

If Gohan is 4 years old by Raditz, then he must be 5 by the time Vegeta and Nappa arrive, because 1 year passes. This makes him 6 by Freeza, 7 by Trunks, 10 by the Androids, he has his 11th birthday before the cell games and 7 years later he is 18 years old starting in the Saiya-Man Saga.

Gohan learning Kamehameha?

The wording of the article implies that Gohan didn't learn the Kamehameha until training with Goku to fight Cell. However, I seem to recall Gohan doing Kamahamehas earlier than that. There's only one I can recall with almost certainty, and it was in either Dead Zone or The World's Strongest, literally years before Cell. In one of those two movies, three characters (I think Goku, Gohan, and Krillin) did a simultanious Kamehameha against an enemy. And I think there were others in the early years of the show, but I can't recall where exactly. 4.227.105.224 20:33, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

It was Goku, ROSHI, and Krillin who used Kamehamehas in World's Strongest, Gohan has NO combat experience in Dead Zone, and even if Gohan HAD used a Kamehameha in World's Strongest (which he didn't) it wouldn't have mattered, because that movie is non-canon. Gohan didn't use the Kamehameha until after his training with Goku in preparation for the Androids at LEAST. I don't recall him using it directly after that, but he may have learned it partially or completely, and just not had the chance to use it (improbable, but possible). We only know for SURE that he learned how to use it after his training in the Room of Spirit and Time.

Daishokaioshin 21:16, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

The only training Gohan had in Worlds Strongest was with Piccolo, and his only major ki attack was the Masenko. And don't forget that movie is utterly non-canon, as evident by the fact the Goku can use Genki Dama, Piccolo's batting for the good guys, yet Goku isn't an SSJ and their opponents are actually at a level that Roshi is an effective combatant. And Dai, you're right- Gohan doesn't use it until the room. He didn't even really fight after the Garlic Jr Saga (where he was all about the Masenko) until then. He trained, but when it came to the early android stuff he went from spectator to transportation (carrying Yajirobe, Bulma, and lil' Trunks out of harm's way). Onikage725 01:30, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Old discussion, but I think it is worth mentioning that when Future Trunks is remembering Gohan's death by Androids 17 and 18, he is seen still using Masenko (albeit one-handed); supporting that he learned the Kamehameha from Goku in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. Which would have been impossible in Trunk's timeline because Goku was already dead. 216.205.211.188 1:45, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

                                                                                  Maybe because Goku knows the Kamehameha and he is Gohan's father.It should be in Gohan's bloodline and that should be how he knows that.

The english dub make mistakes when you say Gohan is using the Kamehameha before Cell or previous movies, he just learn Masenko(something like demon atack) from Picollo, and learn the kamehameha from Goku.

Gohan's full power question

I have a question for anyone in the know. I have up to Super Buu's emergence in the manga, and haven't read beyond that. Does Gohan come off as stronger compared to other heroes in the manga? Because I know Gohan is supposed to be (according to Toriyama) the strongest non-fused character by the end, but having seen the anime I know there's plenty of stuff that smells like filler (but I can't say for sure) that has Goku and Vegeta rocking out more than they have any right to. Onikage725 02:11, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I haven't read the Gohan vs Super Buu part, but I did see from Vegetto vs Super Buu w/ Gohan all the way to the end. In the anime Goku and Vegeta fight Super Buu inside his own body for quiet a while, but in the manga Vegeta wastes no time in pulling out Fat Buu.KojiDude 15:49, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Ive read the Gohan vs. Buu fight. Gohan totally kicked his butt. Anyway Gohan was one of the strongest fighters in the end, maybe even stronger than Goku. He started losing when Super Buu absorbed Gotenks and Picollo. In the end he really was the strongest non-fused character.-SSJ Gokan 17:20, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Gohan is stronger by far, when he is defeated by Buu+Picollo-Gotenks. but DBZ finish ten years later than that, in those 10 years Goku, and suposedly Vegeta too, keep training as gohan stop, so going to train with Ubb to become stronger, means that Goku surpass Gohan.

I dont seem to remember hearing Gohan stopped training. It was never stated that he did but it's porbably true.

Lightly tanned?

In the article, it says Gohan is usually lightly tanned. Judging from the first image seen on the article, Gohan is more pale than lightly tanned - his skin color looks a lot like the color of milk or white rice. Does anybody agree/disagree? 65.8.124.138 01:15, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I'd say he's simply regularly colored or something...--Suit-n-tie 04:40, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Gohan's tint is his mothers, he is fair skinned (more light peach then tan) while Goku is more of a light tan (Excluding GT where he seems to become almost Hispanic).... (Confused)..... Go figure. --Majinvegeta 20:39, 10 October 2006

Peer review alert!

Attention Dragon Ball experts; Son Goten, an article that is closely related to this article is being Peer Reviewed. Please help out with the peer review by giving your opinions, statements, and most importantly; voice at the review. The peer review's page can be found here. SGFF 01:53, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Gohan page change

I received mail that told me to talk about changing the information about Gohan in this section. Well, I'll begin. I am changing the page for more suitable information. I don't like that my info is being changed, because the information on the Gohan page is bland and lacking, anyway. I would appreciate it if my page contributions STAYS the same. It's not vandalism if you actually know what you are talking about. Wrhmmr 10:59, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I read Manga and have heard discussions about Daizenshuu (official Dragonball Guide Book)(I don't own one), so I think I too have a pretty good idea of what I'm talking about. It pisses me off when fanboys who have only seen the English Dub say that I have no idea, and change my (and your) contributions and only use info from the English dub to validate their claims. Anime (Especially the Dub) is FILLED with plotholes and non-canonical facts. Do you take your info from the Manga or Daizenshuu? Or I believe that basic info from the Anime is a good reference too. If you do, then I believe that our contributions should remain untouched. I've been having the same problem on the Super Saiyan article. People keep reverting to the older version after I contribute TRUE detailed facts (based on Manga reference), but that one needs a SERIOUS change. The vocabulary sucks and it sounds like it was written by 12 year old fanboys. --Majinvegeta 20:32, 10 October 2006

Don't criticize the work of others, as some are 12 year old fanboys.--Atomic-Super-Suit^{What Have I Done?!} 02:23, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry to be blunt, but "They get really spikey hair" isn't very descriptive. So doesn't Gohan when he turns Super Saiyan 2. Gohan's muscles get big and he gets really spikey hair.... is what it says while instead we could say: Gohan's muscle mass increases from his previous form. Other traits include lengthened hair which stands more upright. Sorry about the 12 year old fanboy comment, so I'll re-phrase. "I believe that we should try to use better vocabluary and more descriptive terms such as the one I just presented. --Majinvegeta 22:39, 10 October 2006.

Hmm...Perhaps if you feel so strongly about that, why don't you just change it?--Atomic-Super-Suit^{What Have I Done?!} 03:29, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry to be rude, but it's pretty obvious that I've tried or else I wouldn't be making an issue about it. When I did change it, people keep reverting it to the version that was there before I edited it. Majinvegeta

I also take my info from the manga. The Gohan page also lacks anything about Gohan fighting Freeza or the Ginyu Force, about facing and the eventual alliance with Vegeta, etc. The Gohan page is lacking. The mods should let I or Majinvegeta type the real information, instead of a sloppy mess. Anyway, I love how my stuff is deleted, but Garlic Jr. saga, which is NON-CANON or filler is still there.--Wrhmmr 19:03, 20 October 2006.

Change the picture of Gohan

In my opinion, the main picture of Gohan on this article is horrible. I can draw a picture that looks more like Gohan then this one. I uploaded a picture that is NOT FAN MADE, it is from a poster of the Freeza saga. However, someone keeps changing it, and it's really getting irritating. Is anyone in favor of changing the picture? --Majinvegeta 22:52, 10 October 2006

The one we have now is fine. The other one is pretty poorly drawn and shows a facial expression that Gohan hardly ever makes.--Koji Dude ^{(Contributions)} 02:54, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

The current one's fine, don't change it.--Atomic-Super-Suit^{What Have I Done?!} 03:27, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

What about this picture?-- Black Omnimon 21:25, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Looks fan made.--Atomic-Suit-n-tie^{What Have I Done?!} 02:16, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

And to me, the current one looks fan made. --Majinvegeta

How? --A S NT^{Contributions} 02:49, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Let's pick it apart, shall we? Basic lines (the artwork to these is always key to distinguishing [example] Goku from Gohan), basic anatomy (how do we know that the anatomy isn't from a kid Vegeta? We don't, it looks the same), basic shading (lack of shading gives it a dull 2-D effect), Gohan has not no association with the viewer at all (that is key to a good picture of these characters, I want a character looking right at me when I open a page). If I didn't know who Gohan was, I would think that this picture was pretty bad. Pretty much, when you add up all those things, it looks like this picture was drawn by a fifth grader who had just gone over his friend's house and saw the show for the first time......what about your opinion about my choice of picture? (Sorry to point out the details, I am an artist and I am strict when it comes to drawing these things, I like to know everything that is different about Goku and Gohan, for example; or Goku and Vegeta) Majinvegeta

Once again, the image is fine it doesn't really matter what you or anyone else thinks of it, it's fine and will stay unless you find a real picture that is better, if not, it will be reverted, if not Just leave it as is, please. Also, please don't edit right after you save as it causes edit conflicts and can be rather disruptive. Thank You,--A S NT 00:43, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

I will attempt to find a "real" (Real as in screenshot) that we can both agree on. I won't edit the article until I find one and upload. Majinvegeta

Who cares if the picture isn't a screenshot. Whatever. It's not like someone is going to put an outrageously photoshopped or drawing as the picture. It's no big deal. It's ONLY an article. Wrhmmr

It does matter.--S U IT 00:21, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Funny how the two of the Gohan pictures aren't screenshots either. Since you didn't delete those, it obviously DOESN'T matter. Wrhmmr

What are you talking about?--S U IT 00:26, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

The pics of Gohan under Cell and Buu sagas. Wrhmmr

That's an official image, not fan made, understand?--S U IT 01:30, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

The Teen Gohan picture is real, but I can't really say the same for Gohan's unmasked Great Saiyaman picture. It looks fan made to me. --Sasuke-kun 27 01:32, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

I've seen it on a DBZ manga book somewhere, I can't remember, tho'...--S U IT 01:34, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

That pic is from the Daizenshuu books (Dragonball World book, I think), they are drawings done by Toriyama personally for the Manga. Manga art is different, it's less detailed then the anime art, it is an official drawing though. I changed the picture of Gohan, hopefully you like it. It is from The History of Trunks movie special. Majinvegeta

....?--S U IT⁴² 15:14, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

What are you confused about? I was talking to you as a group of people, not you Atomic Super Suit in particular. Majinvegeta

I know...I've got nothing to do...--S U IT⁴² 17:28, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Why is the hidden potential/power mentioned and explained twice?

It is explained in the personality section and the histroy section... why? People only need to read about it once, and technically speaking, the hidden power should not be part of the history. Majinvegeta

I took away the one in the history section.--S U IT^Halloween? 04:54, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Hey thanks, that's what I did and someone reverted it. Majinvegeta

To the Back; Back to the tail!

I don't think its mentioned that Gohan is the only half Saiyan with a tail, this is speculation that he could eventually become SSJ4 with training.
24.131.85.248 16:16, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I put the tail thing in the article under the trivia section, but speculation is usually not allowed, so I had to cut the SSj4 part. // Sasuke-kun 27 20:29, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I thought it was stated that only pure Saiyans could become Super Saiyan four, that was why Vegeta couldn't become one until his body rejected Baby, Baby's prescence as a pest had contaminated his DNA. So I assume that Gohan isn't able to become one simply because his blood isn't pure Saiyan, he is part human as well. I agree it should be mentioned in the trivia section that Gohan was the only Saiyan/Human hybrid who was born with a tail. Majinvegeta

But how oculd we know that? Goten and Trunks might have had a tail. ChiChi and Bulma probably cut it off out of fear. If you ask me that sounds a little like speculation.-SSJ Gokan 19:47, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't sound like speculation, it is speculation.--SU IT⁴² 19:53, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

None of us actually have proof that Gohan was the only half breed saiyan born with a tail. If saying that he was aint speculation what is? This is what caused the jedi to become extinct!-SSJ Gokan 01:04, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

So ultimate Gohan isn't his him with his hidden power fully awakened?

Someone keeps changing it, and it's getting really annoying. After all, Ultimate Gohan or Mystic Gohan is him with his hidden power fully awakened. I made an edit in the hidden power section that by his early adulthood (Which is Mystic Gohan), Gohan was able to fully access his power at will, but someone keeps changing it to "partially". My point is stupid I know, but I just thought I would point that out. He wouldn't be called "Ultimate" Gohan if he still had dormant power.Majinvegeta

It was talking about him before the power-up, not during.--SU IT⁴² 16:54, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Pics with the transformations?

Just wondering if we could use scans of gohan in his transformations.

Agree, the transformation section on this article is boring. Majinvegeta

also wondering, should of added when i first mentioned, if we should use scans from the manga, or from the anime or doesn't it not really matter...? --Danny z64 07:49, 12 November 2006 (UTC)Danny z64

Manga is more accurate, but Anime is more detailed. Your choice, we just run the issue of things being mistaken as "fan-made" images because of their somewhat generic appearence if we decide to use the Manga Pics. Some Anime screens can be in that catagory as well... The pic of Gohan at the begining of the Buu saga is a Daizenshuu scan, and a Manga pic.(I personally like Daizenshuu scans, it has everything from classically done manga pics to professionally done saga highlights.). Majinvegeta

What do you mean proffesionally drawn? It's all drawn by the same person: Akira Toriyama. All that changed is his drawing style.--SUIT^What!? ⁴² 22:50, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

No it's not, not in the TV Daizenshuus. Those are drawn by people who are hired by Toei and the publishing companies, not Toriyama. Much like Toriyama didn't employ the person who came up with the designs for the GT characters, Toei did. The pictures in Daizenshuus 1,2,3 and the Dragon Ball world book were all drawn by Toriyama, but 4,5,6 (TV editions) were not. Majinvegeta

Hmm...--SUIT 06:45, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Unlocked Potential?

Is the "unlocked Potential" really a form?(The one where Guru unlocks Gohan's power) I beg to differ, it is a term coined by the games and a power up for the games exclusively, it is not a transformation or an official form. I feel that it should be removed. Majin Vegeta

Hidden Power

The article stated that Mystic Gohan is the 'strongest unfused character'. That's not true, though. He isn't as strong as Kid Buu or Goku SSJ3. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.10.112.52 (talk • contribs).

Kid Buu is the weakest.Gohan>Super Buu. Your argument = Void.

No he's not. He is the strongest form. He gets rid of all the previous forms whose goodness was holding him back.

English Dub anime wise, yes, you are correct, but Manga wise: your not. Gohan (going by the manga and based on official Daizenshuu [offical guides to Dragon Ball] data) is stronger then both SS3 Goku and Kid Buu. Kid Buu in the Manga is not the strongest Buu, believe it or not, he was one of the weaker ones. That is how Super Saiyan 3 Goku was able to fight him, and truthfully speaking: Super Saiyan 3 Goku wasn't that much stronger then Fat Buu. Super Buu/Gohan absorbed is the strongest Buu, that's why Goku had to fuse with Vegeta to fight him. If Goku was stronger then Super Buu/Gohan absorbed (Based on your assumption that Kid Buu is stronger then Super Buu/Gohan), then what would be the point fusing with Vegeta if Goku alone could already beat him?

Strongest Buu to weakest Buu (educated guesses based on Daizenshuu data)

Super Buu, Gohan Absorbed
Super Buu, Gotenks/Piccolo Absorbed
Kid Buu
Super Buu
Evil Buu
Fat Buu

-Majin Vegeta

Okay, but even you yourself stated that that list was an educated guess, which implies that no one really knows for sure. My whole point in the article, even if I was originally wrong, is that we shouldn't state that Gohan is the strongest when they don't state specific power levels. That's why I stated that he was one of the strongest.

Regardless of the "lack of existence" of exact power levels, the offical Dragonball Guide (Daizenshuu) states that Gohan was (by far) the strongest unfused Character by the end Dragonball Z, and then the unfused line continues: Goku (Kid Buu would've been the second strongest at the end of the series, but he dies)..... and then so on. They however fail to mention the status of the different forms of Buu when compared to each other, but it is theorized that Kid Buu was somewhere around Super Buu, the evidence being that SS3 Goku (Who was slightly more powerful then evil Buu) was able to match him nearly blow for blow. It also states that Super Saiyan Gotenks was as strong as Super Saiyan 3 Goku, and of course Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks was much stronger then that. Then there is Gohan, who surpasses even SS3 Gotenks and is able to nearly kill Buu. So when you really think about it, Gohan is WAY stronger then Goku and Kid Buu, the evidence being that he surpasses even SS3 Gotenks, who is FAR stronger then SS3 Goku being that he was as strong as him at regular Super Saiyan. To support the claim that specific power levels can't be given, there is a quote in the Manga that Vegeta says: We Saiyans cannot be reduced to numbers. He is implying that Saiyan transformations are based on multipliers, not specific numbers. eg: SS Gotenks= SS3 Goku. Another example: regular SS Vegetto is far stonger then "Mystic" Gohan. Majin Vegeta

MV I kind of agree with you and you using a positive source but there is something the Daizenshuu may have overlooked. In the manga and anime of the part of the Buu saga. After Goku and Vegeta rescued The young Saiyans and Piccolo from the inside of Buu. It was stated by Goku that instead of decreasing in power as he and Vegeta thought. Buu was increasing in power doing his change into Kid Buu. So if you go by the manga and anime instead of the Daizebshuu, I am not say you are not right, but if you go by that then that would make Kid Buu the strongest or second strongest of the Buu including the fusion Buus. Making Goku's SSJ3 power stronger than Gohan's powers and Gotenks's SSJ3 as he was able to go toe to toe with Kid Buu. Goku even stated that he could kill Kid Buu if he was at his max powers of a SSJ3 but was not able to do that as by him trying to power to his max he used up all his SSJ powers and reverted back to normal. Also remember when a Saiyan is dead and brought back to life and when near death too and healed they become stronger so that could be a factor on Goku but again since Gohan died and was brought back the same could be said about him. Hard to say which is the strongest character out there. Also most powers are based on fact that happen during fights at the time the powers are used and measured and usually not after. Consider Movie 13 both Gohan and Gotenks in the strongest forms couldn't even put a dent in the Hirudegarn but SSJ3 Goku not only withstood the monster's attacks but beat the monster. I know it's a movie but that did happen. That would make Goku the strongest overall of unfused characters. Thats why I say that Gohan and Goku are more even than one being stronger than the other as the manga, anime, movie, and Daizenshuu all contradict each other on Gohan's powers. SSD4 09:12, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Regardless of what the anime and movies state, Gohan is the strongest single character in the Dragonball universe. Toriyama stated it himself, and the Daizenshuu (which he wrote) states it as well. The anime (and ESPECIALLY the movies) are not good resources for facts, Toei (The company who did to anime) creates tons of inconsitencies because of the movies, filler sagas and filler episodes. And Gohan didn't die against Buu the first time, he was brought to the otherworld by Kaioshin and Kabito, but he wasn't dead. The movies are also void of true facts, Goku should not have been able to fight Hildegarn, it was an attempt to make Goku the strongest character in the series. If you actually look at the consitency of the movies, there simply is no consitency. There are tons of inconsitencies when you try to tie them into the anime. eg: Movie 12 is completely void of consistency, both Goku and Vegeta are dead, so this would've taken place sometime during the Buu fight, and Gotenks could use the Super Ghost Kamekaze, so that would place Gotenks during his fight with Super Buu. And this still doesn't make sense because all the humans are alive. Buu killed them all before he entered the time chamber to fight Gotenks and his Super Ghost Kamekazi. Not to mention Goku is fighting Pikkon at a tournament when (in the series) he was on the world of the Kais. So movie 12 doesn't fit into the rest of the timeline. And (another example) movie 13 doesn't make sense because Goku ends up defeating Hildegarn in the end, while this story is supposed to explain how Trunks gets his sword. There was no Goku in future Trunk's timeline (the trunks most associated with the sword), so who exactly defeated Hildegarn, enabling Trunks to then later travel back in time? You could say that trunks defeated Hildegarn, but then why couldn't he defeat the Androids who were only a fraction as strong as Hildegarn? You find TONS of these inconsitencies if you actually look at the movies. You also have to realize that when Buu's power was "growing", it was growing from his state as regular "Super Buu", not the Gohan Buu. Gohan was removed from Buu and be "de-transformed" into regular Super Buu before his power started growing again (as noted by Goku). Daizenshuu and Manga are the only true facts of the series since they were directly created by Toriyama himself, all others created by Toei should be discarded. --Majinvegeta 01:03, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Please note that Goku in the battle against Kid Buu admitted that in an earlier fight against Fat Buu, he had been holding back even as an Super Saiyan 3 because he wanted the other heroes to fend for themselves, being dead, and even than he was easily beating Fat Buu. When Gohan's hidden power was released he was far stronger than Super Buu but not Super Buu w/Gotenks and Piccolo. Super Saiyan 3 Goku was overwhelmed similarly, altough he probably didn't use hiss ful power and transformed to hold him off. Even then you must admit Super Saiyan 3 Goku's strength was close to Ultimate Gohan's, and also when Vegeta pulled Fat Buu out and escaped with Gohan, Trunks, Goten and Piccolo they both sensed Super Buu getting much stronger. I can only assume that Super Saiyan 3 Goku made an attempt to use full power while fighting Kid Buu blow for blow, or increase his power in the form. Goku never got to use full power as a Super Saiyan 3, and the Spirit Bomb was used instead. Even a suggestion before he used the Spirit Bomb was made, for Gohan, Goten and Trunks to fight Kid Buu was declined by Vegeta, knowing it wouldn't make much of a difference of the situation, but it was said that if Goku was able to use full power as a Super Saiyan 3, he would defeat Buu. The only question is if Kid Buu is the strongest Buu. If so, then that would mean that Goku is the strongest character in the manga. Also note that the Daizenshuu also has its inconsistencies. Also to answer the question towaht would the poin be of Goku and Vegeta fusing to defeat Super Buu w/ Gohan, Goten, Trunks and Piccolo the answer would be because Goku wanted to make sure that Buu was destroyed and not rely on his Super Saiyan 3 transformation which he had just used already, and fusing with Vegeta would easily overwhelm Buu, making sure that it was done right. They decided not to fuse against Kid Buu, not because he was weaker, but because of their pride, and sense of individuality. -- Uglyguy2006, 20:38, 24 February 2007 (GMT)

Ever considered the fact that Goku held back because it took too much energy to use, and that when fighting Fat Buu it was taking his time on earth away from him. Also consider that fighting Kid Buu, Goku was Super Sayian-Jin 3 and still didn't win. It took the power of the genki-dama to finish him, Fat Buu, and a Vegeta on top of that. Red13utterfly

Majinvegeta you have for some reason brought movie 12 into this discussion. Why? If I read correctly no one other than you brought that movie into the discussion with has nothing to do with it. The only movie was movie 13 that was mentioned to bring up a point about Goku and Gohan's powers.

Now we know that the movies really can't be used to measure powers and sometimes the anime either but as you said the manga can and in it you are also wrong about Buu being Super Buu before he was Kid Buu. Buu had transfromed into Mega Buu (West Kaioshin absorbtion)when Vegeta pulled Fat Buu out of Super Buu's mind, Mega Buu was consider stronger than Super Buu. Right? and if Buu continued to grow in power that would have made Kid Buu around the same if not stronger power level as Gotenks absorbed Buu. Now if it is with that said that would making Kid Buu the second strongest Buu under Gohan absorbed Buu. And Gohan was not able to hang with that Buu but Goku was able to hang with Kid Buu and possibly kill Buu if he was at full SSJ3 power.

On that note to Red13utterfly, the main reason Goku was not able to kill Kid Buu was because he was not using his full SSJ3 powers as he did mention to Vegeta if he was at his full powers he could have destroyed Buu. That is why Vegeta went in a fought Buu to give Goku time but because SSJ3 uses up SSJ powers and Goku had already fought in both SSJ2 and SSJ3 for a long time, powering up only made Goku drain the remaining SSJ powers he had left. That is why the Genki Dama plan came into eggect as a last resort.

So again MV you go on later to say Daizenshuu and Manga should be the only true source for info but as SSD4 did put out it still condradicts themselves on Buu's power and what levels are in the right places. With means that Gohan actually may not be the strongest unfused character out there. Also can you tell me when was the Daizenshuu book published? I have my reason for asking that. Because as you said uptop early that on Buu's list of levels it is a educated list.:Heat P 17:29, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah. Goku did do a lot, even though Buu has been constantly active whereas Goku and the others in between found time to relax while others fought. Red13utterfly

In the Manga, Gohan is the strongest, when Buu lose gotenks transformation inside him, Goku said: "Ha, feeling weaker? the kids fusion just whore off! Gohan can handle you now! as if Goku is saying that gohan is more powerful, also when the buu inside his own body confronts Goku and Vegeta, Goku said to Vegeta "we can not defeat him" and Buu tell them: "you gonna die", the confusion comes from the anime, another think also is that without Picollo, Gohan, Goten and Trunks, Buu is weakened, then they escape, thinking that Buu is going to revert to Fat Buu or the Skiny Buu, but instead he grow stronger(than the muscular Buu, but not than super Buu), still, Gohan could beat the kid Buu, but the plot took him out so Vegeta and Goku have to fight, but is also clear that 10 years later after that Goku has been training to face Ubb, and then going to train with him, so he probably surpass Gohan by that time (probably Vegeta too as they keep training).

To add my voice to it all: Ultimate Gohan is easily more powerful than Super Buu or SS3 Goku, so if we're counting Buu having absorbed people as fused, then he is the strongest unfused character. Super Buu is clearly at least equal to Majin (fat) Buu in power, probably stronger. SS3 Goku had trouble against Majin Buu, in both the manga and anime. Perhaps he could have beaten him, but Ultimate Gohan had no trouble whatsoever against Super Buu. Thus, he's plainly far more powerful than SS3 Goku. Prophaniti 05:55, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

That there my friend is you opinion. Nothing wrong with it at all but we can not put it on the article as there is really no proof other than it says the Gohan is the strongest unfused character in the Daizenshuu. Yes we know that Gohan easly beat Super Buu butt but as it is mention above Kid Buu is much stronger than Super Buu and is on a level close to the Super (Gotenks/Piccolo) Buu, and as said SS3 Goku could go head to head with Kid Buu while Gohan had lot of trouble battling Super Buu fusion of G and P. However I still agree that Gohan is stronger than SS3 Goku but in a fight SSJ3 Goku would give Gohan a run but ultimately Gohan would win. Mainly though to SSJ3 powers draining Goku quickly. Also when Goku fought Majin Buu, was to give Trunks time to find the Dragon Rader, he had no trouble fighting Buu at all plus Goku was not fighting at full SSJ3 strength as it was also draining his powers and time on earth. His mission was to slow Buu down from destroying West City where Capsule Corp is so Trunks could get the radar. Yes when he talk to Piccolo he did say he could not beat Buu only do to that he wanted the next generation to save earth but later in the saga he admits that he could have easily. But he goes head to head with the much stronger Kid Buu and said he could kill Kid Buu if he had fought at full power. He only fought at lower strength to give Vegeta a chance to fight. So again SSJ3 Goku and Ultimate Gohan are on a even level but do to the SSJ3 draining weakness Gohan is clearly the stronger character. Heat P 11:43, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

As I have said before: it is officially stated that Gohan was the strongest unfused character by the end of Dragonball Z, so why are you guys arguing against this? It's officially stated in the book that Toriyama wrote, therefore there should be no more discussion about this. This is not a forum for debating, it is a discussion page. We talk about the actual facts (Daizenshuu), not debate the distortions that the dub makes. And Heat, there are no acutal documented powerlevels for anything beyond the Freeza arc, simply because scouters weren't used beyond then. All the power level numbers are guesses made, but when the guy who made the series officially states something, it whould be the end of discussion, am I right?--Majinvegeta 03:18, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Hey where you been? Been a while since you been on. Anyway I have stated that I agree with you and the fact that Gohan is the strongest. Also sorry to burst your bubble on something. Akira Toriyama actually did not write the Daizenshuu books, his staff did. He only contriduted to them by art work and information. But Daizenshuu still is a official guide to Dragon Ball. I also did not state any number based power level in my statements. I only pointed out some things that can Possibly show why Toriyama can to that conclusion of Gohan, that is all. Just for GP, Gohan is my favorite character but I have to look at all the facts which sometimes goes with or against Gohan but facts are facts. What I meant by power level is the current power that the character apparently show during their time and not number based like scouters. I do this by comparing and documented fact, somewhat the same as you did in the educated guess on the different Buus's strengths list above. I know that Scouters were last used not in the Freeza arc but the beginning of the Android/Cell Arc (actually the last time number based was used was doing A19 and A20's appearance on Yamcha, anime only though). Remember I agree with you and the facts. I do not disagree with anything. I only pointed out possible conclusions to this via the Daizenshuu, the manga and anime (no movies) and the Japanese version of Wikipedia. (I found a why to translated the Japanese Wikipedia site via Google). You're right about your last statement too. I got a litte carried away with the explanation. Sorry about that. And sorry about the forum thing. I just love to explain things something. Good to see you back though MJ.--Heat P 11:42, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome back Heat. Sorry, I've had other things to deal with. I'm mostly on the Dragonball Wiki site now (I'm the member "MajinSuperVegeta" there). They started one, But now that all the other stuff is over, I have time to come here now. But I may not be doing these pages as often as I did before (I am currently working on "Devil May Cry" pages). People liked my editing of the Dragonball ones so much that they asked me to do non-DB pages, even though half the time I have no idea what the series is about. I just re-word and re-assemble info and people like it. I think you will be good at doing the same! But anyway, back to the subject: I actually agree that Toriyama's staff wrote the Daizenshuu, but the fact still stands that the info that they wrote had to be approved by him first, so ultimately it brings us back to the him actually being the "main guy" on it. And don't worry! When I was talking about arguing against the facts, I wasn't even talking about you. I was talking to Uglyguy and whoever else that is saying that Goku's the strongest simply based on the Anime, and don't even consider the info in the Daizenshuu. That's what I'm arguing and I also completely agree with you! :D --Majinvegeta 19:08, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

To come back to some of the points in question: while it's true there's no absolute, 100% evidence that Ultimate Gohan is the most powerful unfused character, there's no more evidence that anyone else is. Realistically, the only possible contenders are Ultimate Gohan, Super Buu (if we're counting that), Kid Buu and SS3 Goku. Really, it comes down to how you define their power: SS3 Goku, for example, is able to blow Kid Buu away, several times, and could beat him back a lot. However, due to Buus regenerative powers, it needs a blast powerful enough to truly obliterate him, and in a straight fight he would defeat SS3 Goku since the power drain would lead to Goku having to power down. In this way, Kid Buu seems the stronger of the two. Also, I'd have to agree with the above point about the Daizenshuu too: even if Toriyama himself didn't write it, it still counts as canon due to having his official approval. I would still say that Ultimate Gohan could defeat Super Buu with absolute ease, and while SS3 Goku might have been able to hold his own, he could not match such a performance. We also see SS3 Goku briefly combat Super Buu w/Gotenks, and while Ultimate Gohan was having trouble against this form, it seems Goku does a lot worse. It's a questionable issue, definitely, this is just my take on it all. Prophaniti 09:40, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for contributing to this discussion, but if the Daizenshuu isn't "absolute, 100% evidence that Ultimate Gohan is the most powerful unfused character", then I don't know what is. And I won't deny the existance of some facts in the Daizenshuu that are extremely questionable, but it is approved by Toriyama before publication, and I don't believe that something as major as the strongest single character in the series is one of these "questionable facts". And I also believe that the fight between SS3 Goku and Super Buu was anime exclusive, and it was not in the manga. There's also the fact that Toriyama stated that Gohan was his favorite character, this could truly explain why he said that Gohan was the strongest single character in the series --Majinvegeta 08:13, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, fair enough, that's all good. You do realise I'm not actually disagreeing with any of that, right? :S My point has always been that Ultimate Gohan -is- the most powerful unfused character. Prophaniti 15:27, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I see that. :) I apologize for coming off as a little aggressive, it's just that people keep changing it because of the inconsitencies that Toei creates in the filler eps and movies, while the Daizenshuu states this fact clear as day. Again, I apologize. --Majinvegeta 02:58, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

No worries :) No offence taken or anything, I just wanted to make sure there hadn't been any misunderstanding or anything like that. If the Daizenshuu says it directly, then yeah, I'd be inclined to say that's as definite as anyone's ever going to get. Possibly more reliably even than the manga or anime, since one person beating another in a fight could potentially be down to factors other than raw power or ability. The Daizenshuu potentially makes it a lot clearer. Prophaniti 16:14, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Editing the hidden power

An unnamed person keeps editing the hidden power section to say that both Goku and Vegeta surpassed Gohan when they fought Kid Buu, making Gohan the third strongest unfused Character in the series by the end of the Buu saga. Leave it alone please, it is offically stated in the Daizenshuus (official Dragonball Guides) that Gohan was the strongest unfused Character in the series. If you have official evidence to support your claim, (other then FUNimation's Dub which has no place in official and canonical reference) please present it. Majin Vegeta

In the Manga, Gohan is the strongest in the presentation of the characters is said: "Son Gohan probably the greatest martial artist on Earth, he owes his super strengh to the fact that he is a half human half saiyan". When Buu lose gotenks transformation inside him, Goku said: "Ha, feeling weaker? the kids fusion just whore off! Gohan can handle you now! as if Goku is saying that gohan is more powerful, also when the buu inside his own body confronts Goku and Vegeta, Goku said to Vegeta "we can not defeat him" and Buu tell them: "you gonna die", the confusion comes from the anime, another think also is that without Picollo, Gohan, Goten and Trunks, Buu is weakened, then they escape, thinking that Buu is going to revert to Fat Buu or the Skiny Buu, but instead he grow stronger(than the muscular Buu, but not than super Buu), still, Gohan could beat the kid Buu, but the plot took him out so Vegeta and Goku have to fight, but is also clear that 10 years later after that Goku has been training to face Ubb, and then going to train with him, so he probably surpass Gohan by that time (probably Vegeta too as they keep training).

Well first off I do agree with Majinvegeta but as it is said up top in the earlier section. That the manga is the one that makes the differents. It is not the anime as the anime follows the manga. In the manga someone said that Goku while inside of Buu said we can't beat him, Guy their are inside of Buu fighting Buu where inside of Buu he is basically a infinite fighter that keeps coming back like a undead person that can't die. That is why they could not beat Buu. Stop going off one simple saying and look bigger guy.

Also like you said Gohan was takin out of the picture so how do you know Gohan could beat Buu as Kid Buu? You don't, that is your opinion. And after Goku and Vegeta escaped it was said by Goku that his power was growing when they earlier said were weakening with was true but we got weaker to Buu's normal Super Buu form from Super (Gohan) Buu which is the strongest Buu so far. Now as it is thought the Mega Buu (muscular Buu) was consider stronger than normal Super Buu, and as Kid Buu is stronger than Mega Buu that put Kid Buu's powers up around Super (Gotenks) Buu. That puts Kid Buu in the second or third running of the strongest Buus in the manga.

As we know Goku was able to handle Kid Buu on an even level but as Goku's powers decrease as a SSJ3 Kid Buu's powers does not at all weaken, if anything it seemed it was slowly growing but that is my opinion on that part. So Gohan by Daizenshuu is the strongest unfused character but by manga standards Gohan and SSJ3 Goku (Not Goku in particular just that SSJ power) are somewhere on the same power level but with Goku's SSJ3 powers quickly draining his SSJ powers he gets weaker very fast. Gohan's Powers are his hidden powers that grew as he grew up with him are very normal to him. SSJ powers are a Saiyan's gene trait you have to unlock but Gohan's hidden powers have always been there in him, so when he was able to use them completely and fully under his control it was normal to him as SSJ3 is not normal even under SSJ standards. So Gohan and SSJ3 Goku are on a even level but if they fought, do to SSJ3 draining Goku's powers Goku would lose unless he may have went all out early in the fight so Gohan would win that fight making him stronger than Goku But do to the way DBZ ended many of the people want to see Goku as the strongest fighter.

Now does it now make sense why people think Goku is stronger than Gohan is because of Buu's powers and Goku in SSJ3 form evenly handling Buu and killing him. But with that explanation I gave I hope you see why Daizensuu may say why Gohan is the strongest and this why we use Daizenshuu to say that because it is the only official Book other than the manga itself that can give accuate and official sources.Heat P 12:32, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

You maybe right, but your explanation is confusing, lets see more about this discusion for the fans that are confuse, i am a big fan too, so here i go: Gohan is Stronger than "Super Buu".(fact)Goku and Vegeta have this conversation inside Buu(manga Shonen Jump):BUU: i wondered what was up... now i get it.., GOKU: How does this work! VEGETA:Buu inside his own body? BUU(in the manga Boo) i dont know why you weren´t absorbed..But you gonna paid for letting them go!!(Piccolo, Gohan,etc..) VEGETA: Now this look like it could be trouble... GOKU: I told you to keep the potara on!!! this would´ve been easy if we could combine!!..BUU: So... you can´t combine anymore.... GOKU: Urk?! VEGETA: Idiot!!you couldn´t keep your mouth shut?!!.. GOKU: Try it and i we´ll blow a hole in your body!!! BUU: Hehe... GOKU: That makes you laugh? You think i can´t do it?.. BUU: nope.. GOKU: Let´s see. BUU: That just feel like a prick.. like being bitten by a flea. GOKU: So we have to beat you first.. BUU: You can´t do it. you are gonna die. VEGETA: You think so?. I wonder what happens if i tear this one off BUU:!!!!!!!! VEGETA: Will you turn back to fat or Skinny Buu, either way you´ll be weaker. BUU: Stop, D-dont touch him!?!, let it go!! VEGETA: He he you´re even more scare than i expected.. BUU: Don´t cut him out of me!! i won´t be myself anymore!! GOKU: You won´t be yourself? VEGETA: How intriguing..Let´s see what that is like.. VEGETA: Move Kakarrot, grab them all and get out of here.. GOKU: Hey everything is going crazy!! VEGETA: He is transforming, either fat or thin!! ARRG Where is the exit?! GOKU: I see a light ... (Outside) DENDE: Everyone absorbed by Buu, they are alive!! GOKU: Vegeta, isn´t his chi(KI) getting BIGGER!...

Vegeta and Goku couldn´t defeat the muscular Buu, Gohan could, so in conclusion GOHAN was the strongest, the anime show buu atacking Goku and Vegeta inside, that never happend in the manga, majinVegeta is right, P/heat you are right too, if Gohan could beat kid Buu? i think yes, you are right, is my opinion, for everyone else, make your own conclusion. :)

The Bro Kamehameha

Only a question. Should the Bros Kamehameha move that Gohan (and Goten) uses in there normal Super Saiyan form on Budokai Tenkaichi 2 be put in the powers and ablitity list? I know it is a move that is only used in Movie 10 and the game and was only named for the game's usage. However it is a move used by Gohan none the less. I think it should but i don't want to edit or as some people say vandalize the article if you guys disagree. SSD4 08:46, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Super Saiyan Mirai Gohan

In the Transformation section of the article. It says it was never clear how Mirai(Future) Gohan became a Super Saiyan in the Mirai timeline, but it actually does. It was said by Gohan himself that he became a Super Saiyan after seeing Piccolo die. Whoever wrote that was close but didn't mentioned that fact. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 214.13.248.180 (talk) 12:17, 12 December 2006 (UTC).

If you're going to put down that statement, at least put in parentheses that that specific line was only mentioned in the History of Trunks movies special, and not in the official manga. - Tyro_Kith

Inconsistant article.

Well as it states, this article is a bit inconsistant in terminology. I edit the part mentioned Perfect Cell getting defeated by Super Sayain-Jin 2 Gohan but it referrs to him as an 'antroid.' Since I see a lot of sub-title jargon, I figured it would be in the best interest to not distinguish him dub mistake: considering that Perfect Cell is not an antroid, but a biological organism. Feel free to refute this, but then you must consider that you'll need to edit all terms regarding the Kais(in the article, it is noted that Supreme Kai is called 'kaioshins,'). User:Red13utterfly

Agree, but even though Cell is actually an organism, he is referred to as an android in both English and Japanese versions. A perfect example of this same thing happening is when referring to Androids 17 and 18, who are actually not androids at all, but cyborgs. Both 17 and 18 were originally humans, but were later fitted with cybornetics. This makes them unlike (eg) Android 16 or Android 8 who are purely mechanical. --Majinvegeta 00:41, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Android 8 is mechanical? I didn't know that--SUIT^-n-tie 07:55, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

I dont think it says but it is implied that he is fully mechanical.DBZROCKS 23:58, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Watch Path to Power. When Android 8 gets blown up, you see his insides are completely like Android 16. Also, spoiler. 4.252.213.21 17:36, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Past Tense? Present Tense?

Perhaps this question would be better asked on a more general page, but what tense is appropriate for recounting the events of the storyline? As it stands, the tense shifts from present to past (and past participle, whatever that is). I would like to edit it to make it consistent, but I'm not sure which tense to use. Paul Haymon 08:54, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

It's difficult to keep it consistent, I don't think it really matters. You are free to edit this page to past tense or present tense, I don't think that anyone really would have an issue with it. --Majinvegeta 03:12, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Hm, okay. Thanks. Paul Haymon 21:46, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

It actually matters a bit. If we ever want to make a Dragon Ball article a Good Article (which is going to take a while), we need them to be consistent--$UIT 23:30, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Okay, so which tense do you suggest? I was going to use present tense. Is that ok? Paul Haymon 00:27, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

You can use either tense as long as it's consistant is what I'm saying--$UIT 00:31, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

When writing about fiction, present tense must be used. Example: "In Episode 67 of Dragon Ball, Goku defeats the Red Ribbon Army." Not "Goku defeated the Red Ribbon Army." Read about it in WP:BETTER.--Nohansen 00:44, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Great, thank you. I'll edit when I get the chance. Paul Haymon 00:49, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Age again

This is to correct any questions about Gohan's age. I know that many people are using Funimation to count for Gohan's while others are using the manga and Japanese anime. However I will only give you four date to show you that Gohan's was only 10 years old when the Cell games started as well as 16 at the being of the Buu saga as stated in the actual manga. Using the timeline give to us via Daizenshuu, the Kanzenban Re-Release of Dragon Ball manga and the page Timeline of Dragon Ball.

757 A.D. May, Son Gohan was born (actual date is never show but is between the 16th and the 26th of May.

767 A.D. May 26th, the Cell games begins ( in the original DB manga it was the 17th of May)

774 A.D. April 7th, the beginning of the Buu saga (Gohan's first day of high school)

774 A.D. May 8th, the defeat of Majin Buu

Now math is not my best subject but 757 and 767, that is 10 years right? But for some reason people also use his time in the Room of Spirit and Time as part of his birthday making him 11 which can make some sense but in the real time only one day past. So yes Gohan body was a full year older but technically going by his birthday and the actual time that past outside of the room Gohan was only 9 when he emerged from the RoSaT (his actual age at the time he went in) and sometime in the 10 days before the Cell games his birthday passed and that makes him 10. The reason Gohan is 16 at the beginning of the Buu Saga is because on Gohan's first day at school with was the date is 774 A.D. April 7th, a full month and a half before his birthday, also his birthday still did not pass as on the day Goku defeated Buu was on 774 A.D. May 8th, a month and a day after the beginning of the saga but still almost a full two and a half weeks before Gohan's birthday which is between 16th and the 26th of May. So Gohan during the Cell games age is 10 with a body of a 11 year old and during the Buu saga he was 16 with a body of a 17 year old. Hope now you understand this. thank you for you time to read this. Heat P 20:49, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Gohan's ages (as I recall)

Raditz fight: 4 1/2 (Gohan said it when Bulma asked him)
Vegeta fight: 5 1/2 (Year had passed)
Freeza fight: 5 (almost six) (2.5 mo had passed between Vegeta fight and arrival on Namek, and then 2 mo. fighting Freeza)
Trunks arrival: 6 (One year had passed between the Freeza saga and Trunks' arrival)
Android fight: 9 (3 yrs spent training)
Cell Fight: 10 (count 1 yr in the RoSaT)
Buu fight: 17 (7 yrs had passed between Cell and Buu)
End of DBZ: 27 (10 yrs had passed between the Buu fight and the end of DBZ) --Majinvegeta 03:59, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

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