Talk:Somerset and Dorset Joint Railway

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[edit] Maps and diagrams

[edit] Distances

1 chain = almost exactly 20 metres. (The beauty was that it is about right for finding locations -- if someone told you there was a broken fishplate at 13m 56c you could go there, pacing out the chains (26 sleepers) from the quarter mile post, and you'd be there within a few yards. The LMR preferred miles + yards but (a) that gave big numbers -- 13m 1330y -- and it was spurious accuracy, coz the other person hadn't got a tape measure out to quote the location.) Afterbrunel 16:37, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Timings

I have found a timetable for Evercreech to Highbridge, and so have added the timings to the diagram. David Bailey 18:43, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Station names

While going over the timetables I found, I noticed that some of the stations in our diagram were listed as Halts in the timetables. What are the rules regarding station names, and do we change our diagram accordingly? (Midford, Wellow, Shoscombe, Masbury, Shapwick, Pylle, and Creekmore) David Bailey 18:50, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Well spotted. The diagram lists some Halts. I've looked in Butt: - Midford is listed as a station under S&D, but a Halt under GW; Wellow as a station; Shoscombe as a Halt; Masbury was a station then became a Halt; Shapwick a station; Pylle a station then renamed a Halt; Creekmore a Halt. Perhaps, with the exception of Wellow, they should be renamed.Pyrotec 19:05, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
It rather depends which date you think the diagram should pertain to. Five of the stations were only ever halts: Shoscombe & Single Hill, Stourpaine & Durweston, Charlton Marshall, Corfe Mullen and Creekmoor. Masbury was staffed until 1938, but after that appeared in timetables as a halt. Spetisbury was similarly reduced, but I'm not sure when: possibly when the new halts were opened on the southern section in 1928 – I certainly had early BR luggage labels to "Spetisbury Halt" in the mid 1960s, though LSWR ones were to Spetisbury (or Spettisbury, spelling not being a strong point in pre-grouping days). Pylle was unstaffed from 1957 and was called Pylle Halt in timetables thereafter. The others are all stations, though some of them (and others, such as Ashcott, West Pennard, Bason Bridge) were unstaffed after goods and parcel services were withdrawn in the early 1960s. The confusion over Midford is that Midford station was on the S&D; Midford Halt was on the unconnected and short-lived GWR Limpley Stoke to Camerton line, where virtually everything was a halt. I'm never quite sure what the definition of a halt is: Shoscombe, in my memory, had a small ticket office staffed by two delightful elderly ladies, though it was only open when they felt like it, and there was a waiting room which did not have the merit of being particularly close to the railway. But it was always referred to as a halt from the time it opened in 1929. Bawdrip, by the way, was also always a halt, and I think Cossington was unstaffed before closure. I don't know about Polsham, but can't imagine it was ever a thriving transport hub. Johnlp 19:51, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Polsham became a halt in July 1938. (Ref: Somerset Railway Stations, by Mike Oakley) Johnlp 22:15, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
The diagram shows the maximum extent of the line, and this should also apply to stations. If a station was previously manned full time, but them became an unmanned halt, we should refer to it as a station. The article on train stations notes that "In the United Kingdom most, if still in existence, have had the word halt removed from their title in recent years.". David Bailey 12:08, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Seems sensible. So the halts would be Shoscombe & Single Hill, Stourpaine & Durweston, Charlton Marshall, Corfe Mullen and Creekmoor on the mainline, and Bawdrip on the Bridgwater branch. Which is what we have! Johnlp 21:11, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Layout

I have widened the diagram by using the BS4 template, as it was getting a bit difficult to see the relationship between this line and other railways. I have also shortened it slightly by putting Shepton Mallet viaduct in sideways. David Bailey 16:03, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Writhlington colliery sidings

At present we have Writhlington colliery sidings identified as the same site as the former Foxcote signalbox where the 1876 accident took place. In the back of my brain I seem to recall that Foxcote was actually the signalbox for the former Braysdown colliery sidings, not the Writhlington ones. But I don't have a detailed enough local map and am geographically located too far away to confirm or refute this suspicion. Perhaps someone closer to these places might know? Johnlp 11:51, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

It's very difficult to work this out on the online versions of the OS maps from 1888. The 1904 1:2,500 map is a bit clearer, but I cannot make out the locations of the signal boxes on this stretch of the line. I think someone will have to dig out a paper copy of this map from their chest-of-drawers, or from their local library. David Bailey 13:29, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Templecombe notes and diagrams

It seems odd to me that there are so many diagrams of Templecombe station in this article, when there are none at all in the article on the station itself. My inclination would be to move them all to the station article and allow a description of the junction to suffice for the article on the railway. Again, though, I'll do nothing until others have had their say. Johnlp 23:14, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

I think this is a good idea. With all those diagrams and lengthy explanations, the S&D article is a little long winded. Moving the Templecombe stuff to the station article will improve the flow of this page without loosing its clarity. Those who want to know about the changes to the station can just go to the other article for the details they need. David Bailey 13:18, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Missing information

Does anyone have a timetable or distance marker information for the following:

  • Glastonbury and Street to Wells (Priory Road)
  • Edington Burtle to Bridgwater North
  • Highbridge Stations to Burnham-on-Sea
  • Broadstone to Wimborne

It would be nice to get these last little bits of missing information into our fabulous diagram. David Bailey 13:35, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

I have a reprint of a 1910 Bradshaw and will check this evening. Also, somewhere, an original 1948 Bradshaw. Johnlp 13:52, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for digging up the data Johnlp. I have done the conversions from miles to kilometres and added the figures to the diagram. There are still a few gaps in the numbers, but the principle stations are now all covered. David Bailey 16:45, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bridgwater: bridge or flat crossing?

After looking at old OS maps and aerial photos, I still cannot work out whether the S&D line went under/over the GWR line at Bridgwater, or if there was a flat crossing. Could someone with local knowledge give some insight, so that the diagram can be updated? map David Bailey 17:02, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Oakley (Somerset Railway Stations) and the Pre-Grouping Atlas both have the S&D crossing over the GWR by a bridge. The 19th century convention was that the later arrival went over the top and paid for the cost of the bridges: part of the reason why the Great Central was so expensive. Johnlp 20:10, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks Johnlp, I've corrected the diagram to reflect this. David Bailey 13:45, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Order of article

I'm inclined to think the article is somewhat the wrong way around, in that the 1960s stuff really shouldn't be the lead section. I am inclined to rearrange it along more standard historical lines. What do others think? Johnlp 11:51, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Still to do

  • Find some copyright free photos of S&D steam trains. Photo of Evening Star added.
  • Find some copyright free photos of the main line in action.
  • Ensure every station links to a live article about it. All station links now go to live articles.
  • The text list of stations at the end, and the line diagram, duplicate one another. Resolved.
  • The traction section is partly duplicated and needs some more detail.
  • Provide more details about some of the other accidents.

Add on other "things to do" when you think of them.

[edit] Masbury v Maesbury

In the lead this article mentions Masbury (ie Masbury railway station } as the highest point - this seems to be near Maesbury Castle - doe anyone know if this is the same place & which spelling is correct?— Rod talk 20:09, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Rod, Masbury is the correct name of Masbury station and Masbury Halt (it was renamed); and Maesbury is the correct name of the castle.Yes, they are near each other.Pyrotec 20:38, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone know, which side of Masbury was the line's summit? We should mark it on the diagram. David Bailey 21:28, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Between Binegar and Masbury, according to the Pre-Grouping Atlas. Johnlp 23:25, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks Johnlp. The summit has now been added to the diagram. David Bailey 10:34, 9 November 2007 (UTC)