Talk:Social stories

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[edit] copyright

You are concerned that the content violates copyright? We have taken the stub content from our site www.HealingThresholds.com. I am the CEO of www.HealingThresholds.com and I wanted to make sure that this important therapy for autism was covered in Wikipedia. Is there something more I should do??

PWSMom 21:40, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Carol Gray

Carol Gray is recognized as a pioneer in Social Stories. She is the director of The Gray Center for Social Learning and Understanding in Grand Rapids, Michigan. In 1991, Carol developed Social Stories. Social stories are used worldwide with children, adolescents, and adults on the autism spectrum. Carol Gray defines a social story as a short story that describes a situation in terms of relevant social cues and common responses, providing a student with accurate and specific information regarding what occurs in a situation, and why. Social stories help individuals deal with changes in routine as well as how to handle social interactions. [1]

Please establish notability for this vanity entry with multiple independent, secondary reliable sources calling her a recognized pioneer in the field. (We can't source her expertise to her own book, and we also can't advertise individual practioners and their books.) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:19, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] RE: Speedy deletion

I am in the middle of adding a substantial amount of information; specifically, adding research regarding the effectiveness of this as a strategy, etc.

I will also be asking for peer review once I have added the sections I am in the middle of writing.

If there are any other items I should be deleting specifically, I can do that.

Or, perhaps this belongs under a heading for Social intervention strategies, as a subset of autism therapies, either way, please do not delete it until there is a chance to get some feedback from my peers about what the best wording, and placement would be. Thanks.

--Svernon (talk) 18:17, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

You are misunderstanding the tags; the article is about a notable topic and is not a candidate for speedy deletion. The problem with the article is that it is over-relying on one source (Carol Gray) and making the article an advert for her work, her books, her website, rather than using independent, secondary, journal-published, peer-reviewed literature. Claims about her importance to the field can't be cited to her; the article needs to be independtly sourced, and it's not about Carol Gray, it's about social stories. Any mention of her would have to be cited to independent sources. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:23, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

I've removed the {{hangon}} template because there is no speedy deletion or prod tag on the page. Please see the categories at the bottom of the page; if it were a candidate for speedy deletion, that would be listed there. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:25, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Svernon, You're set - just keep adding more sources, and we'll be able to get this article up to snuff. Josh.Pritchard.DBA (talk) 20:00, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

I just lost a huge amount of cleanup to an edit conflict, so I'll try again later. Please review WP:MSH, WP:ITALICS, WP:MOSLINK, WP:MOSBOLD and understand the norms for capitalization on Wiki (WP:MOS). The article name shouldn't be repeated in section headings, italics are incorrectly used for a list, etc. Citation formatting is all over the place; please consider using the Diberri template filler for PMIDs in the user box on my userpage. If you get it right the first time, it's far less work later and I won't have to keep putting cleanup tags on all these articles. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:09, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

I fixed this once already; it's back again. Please have a look at WP:MOSNUM, WP:WTA and WP:AWW. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:07, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Also, WP:FN explains how to use the same souce more than once;[1] however, book sources need page numbers, so they can't be combined. All of the book sources used here so far are missing page numbers. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:09, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Hopefully the edit wasn't mine! Josh.Pritchard.DBA (talk) 21:10, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Nah :-) I just left Svernon a talk page message to inquire if s/he follows the talk page and the edit summaries, since I'm trying to save him/her some work further down the road. It's so much easier to get it right the first time :-) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:13, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

I worked on some ref cleanup, but I could only find four PMIDs; not sure if that means the other sources cited are not peer-reviewed journals, or if ya'll can find DOIs on them, but they don't seem to be indexed in PubMed. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:38, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

I can check -- I'm doing all my refs by hand -- do you have a better way?Josh.Pritchard.DBA (talk) 21:43, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes, use Diberri's template filler, and follow that format for all citations, so the formatting will be consistent. Go here, drop down to the PubMed menu, plug in a PMID number, and you get a citation. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:52, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
All of my journal articles were sourced using Scholars Portal Search engine, and then taken from the 'peer-reviewed journal article' results. One article, by Nichols (that I have yet to post), I sent away for from the author in order to get a hard copy. I looked up the footnote referencing and noticed how you changed some of them in the page, so I will continue to do this when I add more. What else do I need to add to the sources for them to be considered reliable?--Svernon (talk) 21:56, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
DOIs on journal articles will help, although I'm not well versed in how reputable any of these journals are. Eubulides (talk · contribs) could better inform you if these are good sources and if you're missing anything. Have you asked him to peek in here? Before you get too much farther along, that would be a good idea. You can see his work at autism (and all the daughter articles) and Asperger syndrome. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:01, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Much of this work is published in educational journals, which are not Pubmed indexed. That doesn't mean it's low-quality; it's just a different world, that's all. Eubulides (talk) 08:05, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sources

  • Baker, J (2003). Social Skills Training. Shanee Mission, KS: Autism Asperger Publishing. Autism Asperger Publishing is a vanity press, owned by (I forget her name's) husband. An independent, peer-reviewed source should be used to replace this one. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 04:26, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
I hate to contest over something so simple, but I used this source since Dr. Jed Baker has a great outline of the social impairments indidividuals with an ASD have. I could reference some website, and that may be fine in terms of a source, but wouldn't a well-known and versed doctor in the field have more clout?--Svernon (talk) 00:56, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Checking the article, it is used to source this:
  • The social impairment may include, but not limited to, the use of body language, play skills, understanding emotions, and social communication ability.[unreliable source?][7]
which is text that can be sourced to any number of reliable, peer-reviewed sources (check the autism article). We don't need to use a vanity press for something common. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:02, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Two more sources

This article's sources are much improved. Good job! Here are a couple of sources that it could use. The first one is particularly important.

  • A fairly recent high-quality review whose conclusions seem sound, and should affect the article somewhat: Reynhout G, Carter M (2006). "Social Stories for children with disabilities". J Autism Dev Disord 36 (4): 445–69. doi:10.1007/s10803-006-0086-1. PMID 16755384. 
  • A study that used blinded observer ratings: Sansosti FJ, Powell-Smith KA (2006). "Using social stories to improve the social behavior of children with Asperger syndrome". J Posit Behav Interv 8 (1): 43–57. doi:10.1177/10983007060080010601. 

Eubulides (talk) 08:00, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for all your feedback. I will modify the sources at the end of my day. Thanks again--Svernon (talk) 13:52, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Advert

Wiki is not for advertising; please establish by providing a direct quote from an independent source, information about her importance and relevance to the field, or remove references to her name, books, websites, etc. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:49, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

It's pretty clear from the other reliable sources (e.g., Reynhout & Carter 2006, PMID 16755384) that Gray originated and is still the primary source for social stories. That being said, there's no reason to mention Gray's name in the text; citing the seminal work should suffice. I did find a bunch of questionably-strong positive assessment of social stories, and made this edit to try to make the article more neutral. I don't detect any remaining signs of being an advertisement. Eubulides (talk) 09:08, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Nice work; the article is on better footing now. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:17, 27 February 2008 (UTC)