Talk:Soap opera

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[edit] Soap Opera or Not?

Is Gilmore Girls a soap opera?

Depends on who you ask =)

[edit] The new point form format

The new point form format is horrible. The changes seem to make the article much more US-centric as well. I am changing it back - the earlier format was much better. Asa01 06:03, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Please do change it back. Some of the changes with the points aren't even correct, and omit a lot of important information about how soaps started. Mike H. That's hot 06:06, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Yeah glad you agree. Lots of detail got omitted in that change. Also the point form format made it seem like all soaps have that particular list of attributes. Not the case at all. The poiht form info seemed to only describe US daytime dramas, not all the other types of soaps. Asa01 06:16, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

What? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 206.126.83.4 (talk) 13:52, 5 April 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Query about modern US shows

This article in Soaps for the evening too lists several shows that it described as "soap operas". I know that Melrose Place, the only one of these shows that I have watched more than a couple of episodes of, is indeed absolutely a soap opera. However I have seen three or four scattered episodes of Beverly Hills 90210 and it seemed to me that, though in general the character development occured episode-to-episode and eps definitely could not be screened out of sequence, really the stories were self-contained to the episode. Is this assumption correct? And what about Dawson's Creek, Sex and the City, Queer As Folk, The O.C. and Desperate Housewives? Self contained stories or on-going narratives? Asa01 20:35, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Sex and the City is not a soap opera, it's sitcom without a studio audience. Many US sitcoms have episodes that seem to connect later on in the run of the series (Friends for example).--Attitude2000 03:12, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Slab of deleted text

I have just deleted the text included below. Seems to be way too much detail on individual shows that should be put into the individual articles on those shows (if anywhere). It all seemed to swamp this article, which had previously been quite manageable and useful. Asa01 06:16, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Today, Desperate Housewives is a huge, successful primetime soap opera. Yet, there would not be a Desperate Housewives, if not for the popular Dallas. Dallas is the most famous soap opera of all time. The show reached its peak in the early 80s, as the 1981 season ended with a shot, "Who Shot J.R." The "Who Shot J.R." episodes were some of the most watched episodes in television history. Over 80 million people in the United States and 300 million around the world stuck glued to the television sets to find out "Who shot J.R." The episodes were so popular that even President Ford could not deal with the suspense. He tried to convince one of the actors of Dallas to tell him "Who shot J.R," while playing golf. On November 26, 1981, America discovered that it was Kristen Shephard, J.R's psychotic, sister-in-law that pulled the trigger. Ellie Ewing had three sons; J.R., the eldest, scheming villain of the show; Gary, the alcoholic; and Bobby, the sweet, heroic son. J.R. was married to Sue Ellen, who he cheated on with 81 other women. Bobby was married to Pamela, who was the daughter of the Ewings' rivals, the Barnes. Gary was the black sheep that was married to Valene, a country girl from the wrong side of the tracks. Lucy was the youngest of the clan. She was the product of Gary and Valene and raised by the Ewings after J.R. forced Valene out of Lucy's life. Each season, Dallas dealt with storylines of love, romance, scheming, backstabbing, affairs, intrigue, and shocking cliffhangers. Cliffhangers that kept fans on the edge of their seats included: Pamela's fall and miscarriage, Sue Ellen's car crash while pregnant with John Ross, J.R. getting shot, Bobby getting shot, Cliff's alcoholic overdose, and Pamela's fiery car crash. From 1978-1991, Dallas kept millions of fans on the edge of their seats. The show was so successful that it led to a popular spinoff, Knots Landing. Knots Landing was a spinoff of Dallas that took the recurring characters of Val and Gary Ewing from Dallas to Knots Landing, California. Val and Gary had enough of J.R.'s constant scheming against them, so Bobby built a cul-de-sac in Knots Landing and Miss Ellie bought a house for Gary and Val's wedding present. In Knot's Landing, Gary and Val faced new problems, such as multiple marriages, cheating, and alcoholism. Yet they found faithful friends in Karen and Sid, Ginger and Jeff, and Laura and Richard. Much like mother soap, Dallas, Knots Landing had its lead vixen in Abby. Donna Mill's Abby, the sister of Sid, joined the soap during its second season as she schemed, manipulated and stirred up tons of trouble in Knots. Abby's schemes included multiple illegal business transactions, stealing, lying, cheating, and stealing Gary from Valene and then stealing money from Gary. Abby's belief, "When it comes down to choosing between men and money...money always wins." For 14 seasons, Knots Landing took us through many love stories, triangles, shootings, adventure, murder mysteries, cheating, lying, deceit, social issues and lots more. Falcon Crest was Jane Wyman's baby. Falcon Crest starred Ronald Reagan's first wife, Jane Wyman. Oscar winner Jane Wyman played a power hungry vixen, Angela Gioberti Channing. Angela's family, the Giobertis ran a wine company, Falcon Crest in the Napa Valley of California. For seasons, Angela tried every trick in the book to hang on to complete control of Falcon Crest as it nearly fell into the hands of many of what she considered "outsiders," such as her nephew Chase, her son Richard and her feisty grand-daughter-in-law Melissa Aggretti Gioberti. Each season Falcon Crest would end in the top of the line season finales, including a fiery plane crash nearly killing the entire cast, an earthquake hitting the Napa Valley, Julia's attempts to kill her family, yet she killed her cousin's. Falcon Crest was one of the few primetime soaps that dealt with constant action, adventure and danger, especially the mob and underworld organizatons. For seven seasons, Falcon Crest utilized suspense to keep its large fan base on the edge of their seats every Friday night on CBS. Yet, in 1989, almost the entire cast had left the show. Almost all of the most popular characters had been killed off, such as Chase, Melissa and even Maggie. The show was not as highly rated as Dallas and Dynasty, yet there is still a fan base of Falcon Crest fans that will always remember, as Jane Wyman quoted, "To you Falcon Crest and long may you live." The only ABC hit soap opera of the 1980s was Dynasty, a soap opera that dealt with oil, money, power, glamour, and the rich. The soap was based in Denver, Colorado with the rich and powerful Carringtons. Blake and his wife Krystal struggled to survive a happy marriage with constant outside interferences from Blake's scheming and conniving ex-wife, Alexis. Dynasty distinguished itself by dealing with glamour. Dynasty was also one of two of the four popular soaps to utilized popular black characters. Knots Landing brought in black characters in the mid 80s. Dynasty created a role, Dominique Deveraux, played by Diahann Carroll and her husband played by Billy Dee Williams. Although Dynasty managed to hit the number one spot against rival, Dallas, on occasions, it did not last as long. In 1989, Falcon Crest did not go out alone, as Dynasty joined it in cancellation. Primetime soaps were the huge thing of the early and mid 80s, but the popularity faded in the late 80s as comedies became huge, such as NBC's Thursday night line up, the Cosbys, Golden Girls, and Roseanne.

[edit] Another slab of deleted text

I removed the long rambling slab of text. Some bits might be useful - though these sorts of descriptions might be better on entries for the individual shows. Even a quick skim through the first para reveals a duplication with discussion of Luke and Laura's exploits that have already been mentioned elsewhere on this page. It also contains POV stuff. Asa01 04:22, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

- In order to really understand how some of the most popular soap operas have survived for twenty, thirty, forty and in Guiding Light's case, fifty years, one must analyze some of the most popular daytime storylines. One popular storyline would be Billy Clyde burying his ex-prostitute and wife, Estelle alive on All My Children. One Life To Live went all the way with Todd Manning and Margaret Saybrooke, when Marty was brutally raped by Todd Manning and then he turns around and saves her life after a car accident. General Hospital took Luke and Laura on several adventures of being trapped in a mall all night, searching for statutes to bring down a mobster, saving the world from the evil Cassadines, bringing down Frank Smith in Puerto Rico and being on the run for almost twenty years. Days of Our Lives took us on several mysteries with Vivian Alamain buring her nephew's wife alive, stealing her nemesis' embroyo and implanting it into herself, and Marlena Evans becoming possess by the Devil. The Young and the Restless has taken us through character driven,plot devices such as Katherine's battle with alcoholism, Victor's plane crash, Dru learning to read, Sheila's rampage to destroy Lauren and the business wars between the Abbots and Newmans. As the World Turns did their best story with Barbara Ryan, the good girl that was always the victim of ex-husband James. Barbara quickly lost her good girl routine after being in a boat explosion and being nearly burned to death. After months of reconstructed body surgery, Barbara vowed revenge on everyone that ever done her wrong and went on a rampage to get revenge. - - Soap Villains and Psychos are the best. All My Children's most evil was Billy Clyde Tuggly. Billy Clyde was a pimp that prostituted Donna and Estelle. He tried to bury Estelle alive, killed her lover Benny Sago, kidnap Dixie, "killed Tad" in a bridge explosion, and caused his daughter to suffer a miscarriage after falling down a flight of stairs. All My Children's Ray Gardner raped and stalked sweet Ruth Martin, tried to blow up Ruth's family house, sexually abuse his daughter Jenny, through his son, Tad out of a moving car, abused his ex-wife Opal and tried to kill Estelle. - Ironically, villains can be heros at time. Billy Clyde proves this after saving Estelle from being killed by Ray. Yet some villains are never heros, such as Days of Our Lives' evil Stephano Dimera. This man has tortured everyone in Salem. He has kidnap almost every character in town. He has kidnapped Marlena several times, he's "died nine times," he's tried to kill Roman, John, Bo, and several others several times. He planted a brain chip in Hope Brady and John Black's head to make them into his mercenaries. He wiped out John's memory and implanted Roman Brady's memories in his head. He held Marlena and Roman on an island for years. He kidnap Carrie and Mickey. He has also turned all of his children, Peter, Kristen, Tony, and Lexie as evil as he was.

[edit] Deletion of The Flying Doctors

I have deleted reference to Australian series The Flying Doctors from this page because it was a drama series where each episode has a self-contained story and one-off guest stars, so not a soap opera. I moved the details from the deleted text into the new page I created for this series, then added lots more info. MinorEdit 21:36, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] renamed Soaps in Australia to Australian Soap Operas

I have renamed "Soaps in Australia" to "Australian Soap Operas" because the section is not really about what soaps are shown in Aust, what soaps are popular in Aust, and where in schedules they appear. The section mainly described Australian PRODUCED soap operas no matter where they are shown. It should be noted that we do get UK and US soaps here; the original section name would have been accurate only if the section described where, when and how those international soaps are shown in Aust, but it does not do that. MinorEdit 01:11, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "All My Children" picture

Is there any particular reason why the "All My Children" picture is continually being removed? I don't want to start an edit war or anything, so I thought it would be better to simply ask why it is being removed before I revert the picture. Cyclone49 08:39, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

I think the person who originally uploaded the pic is now deleting it from the soap opera page (though not actually deleting the pic itself from wikipedia) because someone complained about him/her uploading it, making some sort of reference to copyright violation. However I can't see what the problem is or how this pic is any different from the many other screen caps all over wikipedia. The soap opera page has several screen caps, and the Coronation Street page even more. If we can have the odd tiny screen cap from these show and others (like Big Brother Australia) I don't see why we can't have a single AMC pic. MinorEdit 10:42, July 24, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Neighbours Image

Why is neighbours the only UK soap with an image not to have the title screen as its image? I'm not complaining, but out of consistency, wouldn't it be better to have a title page for neighbours too? If people want to look at Lara barely clothed, they can do it on the Neighbours article. Timsheridan 20:46, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

There is a Neighbours title image on Neighbours, and it should be placed over here instead of the bra picture. Mike H (Talking is hot) 23:42, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Post Modern Soap Operas

Someone should include a listing of "post modern" soap operas that don't come on in the daytime; i.e. Beverly Hills, 90210, Melrose Place, Party of Five, The O.C., etc...

There's a whole section called "American soaps: for the evening, too." Mike H. That's hot 10:21, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] More radio history please

As this article deals almost exclusively with TV Soaps, perhaps a separate article is needed to discuss radio soaps, as they establised the form. What was the first radio soap opera? What was the first BIG radio soap opera? Which series established the conventions/cliches? And so on. "Blue Hills" from Australia deserves a mention. Design 05:21, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

I think some of the big early radio soap operas were Today's Children and Ma Perkins. The Guiding Light came later. I know that for certain things, such as what occupations were featured with characters, Irna Phillips' The Road of Life pioneered the use of a hospital as a setting and a doctor as a main character, which would be used later in radio and on many TV shows. Mike H. That's hot 01:48, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

I have added a section on the UK radio soap The Archers into the radio history section (first broadcast in 1951 and still going strong). It duplicates some of the info in the UK soaps section, but as the world's longest running radio soap it deserves an entry in the history section (which seems very US-biased) as well. Monique34 14:20, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion: Longevity

DELETED TEXT: "Something that sets US soaps apart from most of their UK and Australian counterparts is longevity. Of the nine soaps currently on the air, seven have been around for more than 35 years, four for more than 40 years, and two for more than 50."

REASON: I feel it is redundant to state this in these terms. The article lists show duration throughout. It is also like weighing apples with oranges as UK and Australian soaps (apart from a few shortlived examples in earlier decades) are all evening soaps, and so are not really comparable to US daytime soaps. As I have tried to explain in the article, Aust and UK soaps seem to occupy the middle-gound between US daytime and evening soaps. Not as cheap and studio bound and slow moving as daytime dramas, but still on video and not quite as slick or as fast moving as US evening soaps. And with this middle-ground theory indeed the program duration seems to fit into the middle-ground. Of the Aust and UK soaps (made for the evening) few have been around for as long as the US daytime serials, but many have longer runs than US evening soaps. Asa01 02:31, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Time Magazine image

A "deletion proposal" tag was placed on this page regarding the Time Magazine image back on February 25. The discussion has long since disappeared (the link goes nowhere). The image has obviously not been deleted so presumably the tag should be too. I don't know if it's proper to do so, yet. The Image page itself currently contains no reference to IFD. 23skidoo 21:10, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

The picture ended up meeting all the fair use requirements, and nobody contested keeping it. I removed the tag. Mike H. That's hot 21:12, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References

Please could someone cite where they got the info from ? It would be very useful. Cheers !

A lot of this is just from watching the soap operas themselves. Could you tell me what you find contentious? Mike H. That's hot 01:47, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

The citation mark surely doesn't need to go over the entire article. Anything contentious should be specifically marked with {{Fact}}. What are you saying, that "The Young and the Restless" hasn't been on since 1973, that it doesn't feature Victor Newman...? Most of the programs mentioned in this article have their own pages anyway. Asa01 19:55, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Demographics

I think there should be a point about how the key demographics for soap operas are women, yet other demographics watch as well. I'd type something up, but I don't want to just go all willy-nilly adding things that people may not agree with.--Attitude2000 03:18, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Definitely note teen demographics, which has kept Days of our Lives and Passions afloat, and originally held viewer interest for Dark Shadows and Love is a Many Splendored Thing (see article). Older demographics are mainstays of CBS soaps, and helped do in Another World. I don't know of many solid male demographics for soaps, except for The Edge of Night. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 03:32, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Needs Splitting

I don't know if this has been brought up before, but it just came to me: this article needs to be split up. You have American soaps, European Soaps, Austrailian Soaps, History, Primetime, Spoofs, and anything else I can't think of.--Attitude2000 18:22, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't really like splitting the articles into "American soap opera," "British soap opera," etc etc. If you can give a good argument as to why it should be split, maybe I would be persuaded. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 18:26, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

When I started to put on the template for "this page should be splitted," that put it over the suggested page size. --Attitude2000 20:52, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lost in the cleanup

I was doing a cleanup and thie following bit seemed like an orphan just stuck in an inappropriate place in the article. It was previously, and inappropriately, pasted at the end of the evolution of US soaps. Where can it go? Asa01 19:50, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

DELETED BIT: "The grand-daddy of supernatural soaps, however, is Dark Shadows (1966-1971) which featured the vampire Barnabas Collins, the witch Angelique and various other ghosts and goblins, friendly and malevolent. Dark Shadows has the distinction of being the only long-running soap to have every one of its episodes released for home video (including a reconstruction of the one episode of its 1,225 that is lost), first on VHS and currently in progress on DVD."

It needs to be reworded somewhat...possibly changed to note that soap operas before Dark Shadows weren't at all telling the stories they did. The "evolution" place seems to be right, though. Or near "Golden Age". Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 19:51, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

OK it has been reinstated into "The Golden Age of American television" which seems to fit given that section looks at the niches of classic soaps. Asa01 22:57, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] comic strip soaps

I've only skimmed the article, but I didn't see any discussion of the comic strip soaps (Apartment 3-G, Mary Worth, and so forth). Surely a section of some kind is in order? john k 12:01, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Comic Strip-ceratinly they can be looked upon as Soap OPera-with their sterotypical long winded storylines and implausable plot holes-two I can name are: {not suprisingly both were started by the same artist}
- Terry and the Pirates young westener goes to the mysterious Asia/Orient with treasure map left to him by deceased grandfather and on the way picks up a devoted servant who speaks barely passable English, a friendly US secret service spy and assorted rogues and villians. It even has the comic relief of a nearly 100 year old friend of Terry from the 7th U.S. Cavalry of General Custer day who is tramping around the Orient {interestingly he looks like comic actor Al St. John!!}
- Steve Canyon young/blond western US Air Force pilot goes through fantasy adventues with a devoted wife who suffers from amenisa and has fantastic adventures of her own without rembering them; a troubled stepson, the stepson's girlfriend with impossibly long hair who is last seen in a wheelchair with perment brain damage-and who was kidnapped by her stupid gambling brother to an unknown fate {the girlfrinds crooked brother who despite having a tire flare going off in his face somehow manages to kidnap his helpless sister again-nothwithstanding the fact he couldn't have kiddnapped her a second time since he would have been permenently blinded(!); a rich spoiled woman who wants Steve but never gets him; a daring woman pilot who secretly loves Steve Canyon but is trapped in a loveless marraige to a bullying owner of her airplane-until she "crowns" him with a heavy lamp after he tries to kill Steve Canyon sidekick {he is last seen being taken away in a comatose state-and probably dies that way since he is never seen again in the comic strip!}; another woman who's sweet on Steve {who doesn't know it!}-she has been in love with him since she was a seventeen year old teenager who first saw Steve in 1947! {She also appears as a stock charatcher whenever Canyon has one of his famous "dreams"; A new Air Force sidekick to Colonel Canyon; various villians-such as a evil twin of Steve's wife who always tries to kill Steve Canyon-but fails and is seen in a cliffhanger ending as "dying" {being blown up on a exploding gasoline barge or in a tunnel with only two exits-one leades to a bottomless pit and the other is an open vent when oil explodes} yet she always manages to impossibly survive to the next time she tries to kill Canyon; and yes-the Russians whose nefarious world plans to take over the world are ALWAYS RUINED by S. Canyon and company. {The LASt epsiode of this comic had Steve Canyon defeating world Terrorists on board an ocran liner!!}.

There's a ton of what are more or less serial strips, and have at least occasionally been described as soaps - Mary Worth, Apartment 3G, Judge Parker, Rex Morgan, M.D., Gil Thorp, For Better Or For Worse, Gasoline Alley, Funky Winkerbean, Brenda Starr, The Amazing Spider-Man, The Phantom, Dick Tracy, Prince Valiant... john k 19:59, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

And I oughtn't have forgotten Mark Trail... john k 20:02, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Comic strip serials already existed separate to soap operas; they are not a type of soap opera. Soap operas a radio and television serials with storylines and episodes and cliffhangers. This is like claiming that the old Buck Rogers serials are actually soap operas. They aren't. Or that the Doctor Who series is a soap opera. It isn't either. Just because something is presented in a serialised form that alone does not make it a soap opera. Asa01 22:15, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Strips like Mary Worth, Rex Morgan, Judge Parker, and Apartment 3G, at least, are frequently described as "soaps". Some of the others (particularly the superhero/adventure strips) perhaps don't qualify, but certainly those do. The Toonopedia frequently refers to such strips as "soap opera strips," for instance. Are you really saying that there's no such thing as a soap opera strip? Wikipedia's own articles often call them that! john k 22:23, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Note also that King Features, which syndicates many of aforementioned strips, specifically calls them "soap opera comic-strips"[1]. john k 22:25, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Well if you think it warrants it, add a section to this article and link to those comic strips. The term soap opera can of course be loosely applied at times: eg. a melodramatic feature film might be derisively called soap opera, because some of its story might seem resemblant of parts of a soap opera, but that does not mean that that film really is a soap opera. I suspect that might be partly coming in to play in describing these comics as soap operas. But like I said, add it in. Asa01 23:20, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

I have never heard a feature film described as a soap opera. These comic strips have similar subject matter to televised or radio soap operas, but also a similar form, in that they are serials. Obviously, no feature film can be a serial, and thus fails on the basis of that. And note that this is not a derisive description of these strips, but the actual description used by the organization which syndicates them. "Soap opera strip" is the conventional way to refer to strips like Apartment 3G. I'm not sure exactly where the borders are, but certainly the term is very commonly employed. If King Features itself calls them "soap opera strips," I'm rather puzzled at how we can say that they're not really soaps. john k 00:20, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I have already said you should go ahead and add the section, so I do not know why you are continuing to argue your point. Asa01 01:00, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, if you continue to make tendentious claims, I'm going to continue to argue about them. Especially as your approval seemed rather grudging. At any rate, a) I'm not sure where to put such a section; and b) I'm not sure I know enough to actually write a decent section on the subject. I know enough to know there should be a section, but not necessarily enough to write one. Perhaps a stub will do for now. john k 01:57, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Just look at Dick Tracy-at first crude; then a mixture of implasable stories/plot holes up to 1940's/1960's; {although occasianly in late 1930's epsiode such as the "Blank" and the 1940's -such as "P.S.Tone" there were interesting story lines}. And now-just compare the comic relief of B.O.Plenty and Gravel Gertie when they were first drawn-as to how they are drawn now--just not the same.
Funky Winkerbean-certainly a soap opera comic: {7/26/2007}
- Was Lisa Going to survive her cancer? {YES/NO/YES/NO....}
- Was Lisa adopted son Darin going to find out who his mother is? {YES/NO/YES/NO/YES...}
- Was Darin going to get a copy of his birth certificate?{YES/NO/YES/NO/YES...}
- Was Darin and Lisa finally meet before she dies? {As they say in the end...TUNE IN TOMORROW!!}
- Same old pattern-years ago-Funky had a sequence where a kitten nearly dies in a accident-will the kitty survive?(YES/NO/YES/No/YES...}{CAT survived}

[edit] New Site For External Links

Hello Fellow Soap Enthusiasts,

Today was my first day using Wikipedia and I found out that users are not supposed to post links to their own external sites. The moderator suggested I bring it up here so some of you could post the links instead if you like them.

There are two articles that are very relevant to people searching for soap opera information. They are:

Please check them out and I'm sure you will agree that they would be valuable additions to the Wikipedia.

Soap Operas: Silly Suds Or Social Conscience- Examines the Value of Soap Operas to Society

Sex On Soap Operas This article explores the quantity and quality of sex on soap operas and looks at how men and women perceive sex on soaps differently. (cites over 40 sources)

Thank you, Matthew

www.MatthewGrantOnline.com 00:03, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

I thought the Soaps and society page was interesting so I added it back. Hope it makes the cut! Anthonyd 02:44, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I have deleted these pages from wikipedia. They are clearly article spam pages. The author wrote 10 articles on a topic (soap operas) and added 3 boxes of google adwords to profit from it. If this is allowed then wikipedia will be irrelevant as there will be thousands of sites with 10 articles on every topic listed in external links of every page. beano33 12:46, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm not going to bother adding the links back in and getting into one of those cases where they appear and disappear every day. However, the record needs to be set straight. The content on my soap pages is not in any way "article spam." As is stated on the soap opera pages themselves, the material was produced as part of an academic thesis beginning in 1992 (long before anyone ever dreamed up the word "wikipedia" or dreamed of making money online) with an update in 2006.

Just because one adds advertising to content doesn't make the content spam. If that were the case, then the websites of every major newspaper in the country would have to be considered "article spam." They aren't and neither is my material.

www.MatthewGrantOnline.com 04:34, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] TV Series aka Soap Operas

The following TV series could be looked upon as "Soaps" depending on your point of view:

- Every sequel series of Star Trek {orginal series} {including MOVIES}
- The Sopranos-everyone's favortie gangster family.
- Any other canidates?

I AGREE ON TV SERIES AS SOAPS!!!

Another canidates would be the mini-series Centennial (novel) and any other mimi-series based on novels-or based on movies-such as MASH.

[edit] Horribly US Centric

This article is horribly US centric, especially considering the relative importance of soaps to UK audiences. They're huge in the UK, and not so popular in the US. Trip: The Light Fantastic 17:46, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Need for Current American daytime network television schedule?

I think that in the context of the subject "soap opera", it is helpful to have the well-constructed table that shows the usual US soap opera schedule, but the inclusion of just about every exception to the schedule in the paragraphs that follow seem excessive.

I suggest: move all the specific exceptions to the corresponding soap opera's article page, and then add a line here that says something to the tune of "local schedules may vary, for further information on the schedule of a particular soap opera, visit its corresponding article."

I think this info is valuable for the soap in question, but this level of detail slows down the "soap opera" article here. Any thoughts? Doc502 17:32, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree that the exceptions should be moved into the articles on the individual shows. I also thing that the table of Current American Writing, Producing, and Directing Team clogs up the page too much, and these elements should also be moved into the articles on each of these individual shows. This is a general article about the genre. We don't need the specific groupings of writers here. Format 01:52, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Just came across the article and agree that the table of writers etc is cumber some & info that should be on individual pages, would also suggest removing sheadule as it increases the US centric tone of the article. --Nate 13:29, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree and have removed it. It looks ridiculous in a general article, which needs only to define and illustrate the genre.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 12:43, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

I just moved the crew table off the page. Not appropriate for a general article about the genre - these crew lists should only appear on the individual pages for each of those shows. Format 19:28, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

I went ahead and combined the references. Other ways that this article could be improved:

Many of the items under "See also" should be deleted. See WP:SEEALSO
The "Parodies" section needs to be whittled down to only include notable parodies. As a rule of thumb, the parody should be something that's mentioned in the article that's being linked to. If it's not mentioned there, it's probably not notable enough to mention here.
Find a way to move some of the other items that are currently in "External links," up into actual references.

Thanks, El on ka 23:38, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Frame rates

Are current soap operas using a higher rate of capture than most syndicated TV shows? A marked difference I see is that that the movement in them always appears to be smoother than other shows.

Might be connected to the use of video (in the US 30fps but with two fields) rather than film (24 fps). UK serial Family Affairs for much of its run used a special technique that removed every other video frame in post production, giving the movement/action a film look. I have heard All My Children in the US does this too. Format 19:19, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

It's the difference between full video of 50 or 60 Hz verses progressive encoded video of 25 or 30 Hz.

Progressive encoding gives a steady freeze frame but sacrifices framerate to achieve it. This is not an issue for film conversions as they are only 24 Hz in the first place but for TV shows/music videos progressive encoding is generally detrimental to the experience.

Evanh (talk) 20:41, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Longest running actors?

I really don't think this list needs to be in the article at all, but considering like 60 or so actors have reached that 20-year threshold, I've decided to cut the list off for American soap actors at 35 years. That's a bit more special of a milestone than 20, which it seems a lot of people can get to these days. I'm personally in favor of just removing the lists completely, though, and I want opinions. Mike H. Celebrating three years of being hotter than Paris 09:29, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Howard's Way

What about the 1980's UK soap 'Howard's Way'? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.197.36 (talk) 09:25, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] English Tenures

I think we should only have people that have been with the show for over 29 years in the longest cast spot like America. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.87.115.121 (talk) 23:52, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] engrish

dunno about you, but there are certain words that exist just for the sake of it and few people actually use them in speaking... like the word "sentiments" which i uncovered skimming through this article :) why not just say feelings, emotions or whatevers? i hope nobody will oppose to the changing of these words with their more widely used counterparts —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.81.59.2 (talk) 18:26, 22 April 2008 (UTC)