Talk:Snipe hunt

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Contents 1 Navy jokes 2 Left-handed Knives 3 Don't these jokes undermine the joker's authority? 4 Merging with Fool's Errand 5 Variations 6 Phrase origin 7 OK, i'm an idiot 8 Is the Snipe a Snark? 9 Category:In-jokes 10 an endless list 10.1 Ordering and filtering 11 Baggage Trailer 12 Move to Fool's errand 13 Dropbear 14 Metric adjustable spanner 15 Unsourced list 16 Nine Inch Nails 17 Other Common Military errends missing 18 Move to Fool's errand 19 Sourcing? 20 Problems

[edit] Navy jokes

In the U.S. Navy, it is also common to ask new recruits to search for "Sound Powered Phone Batteries." Naturally, sound powered phones (used for communications between different parts of the ship) do not have batteries. Another trick is to issue the recruit a kapok jacket and binoculars and send him to stand for hours on the bow of the ship (preferably in foul weather), searching for the mail buoy. The other sailors explain that they are anxious for letters from home, and will be most unhappy if the mail buoy is missed.

Ah yes, I remember these "hunts" well. Also I would add several which are on the U.S. Navy slang page, as well as the search for the two ships tied together in the middle of the Pacific Ocean that are there to mark the International Date Line. Priceless.--Metron4 22:12, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Left-handed Knives

I have removed knives from the list of fictional left-handed items as left-handed knives actually exist. While most knives used in the west are center-cut and, as such, equally usable by both right- and left-handed people, most knives used in Japan and other eastern countries have bevels which are ground only one side and can be used effectively only by people of the specific handedness the knife was cut for. See Japanese kitchen knives.

I've also just removed left handed corkscrew (has a 'reverse' thread) & left handed can opener (mirrored working parts), both items very much exist, I have a lefty can opener for my partner, and have failed to open wine bottles with a lefty corkscrew before! --RedHillian 22:10, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I've reworded the second slightly because I read it as "(..., hammers, ...) or hammers ...", also changed achiral to ambidextrous because the prior word is not generally known and the only reference I can find using it in the sense used here is a page discussing this very topic, so I suspect common descent rather than true corroboration.Kevinpet (talk) 07:04, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Don't these jokes undermine the joker's authority?

Doesn't a superior issuing a snipe hunt to a subordinate begin to undermine their own authority, by placing the validity or rationallity of their orders under question? In an organization where orders are usually supposed to be followed without question, such as the military, it seems antithetical to their regular behavioural conditioning of being trained to follow orders even when you think the orders(or your CO) stupid.

I disagree. First, it's a sort of initiation, which is common in hierarchical organizations. It also teaches the newbie to think a little bit before he goes off. In these organizations (notably the military), there is no undermining of authority as authority is not based upon charisma. What you're also missing is the context--when the dupe realizes what's going on, he tends to understand it's not personal but a sort of rite of passage. At least, that was my experience. BenWilson 15:22, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Well, as far as I've experienced new Sailors are sent on snipe hunts by more experienced sailors, not the officers (the officers were in on it, though). --Joffeloff 04:41, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

As the article states, most snipe hunts are a peer group hazing ritual. I.e. it is not a case of authority as much as it is achieving acceptance in the group. As such, the positive side of the hazing is that it creates a common experience for all members of the community. They all have a tale to tell afterward, etc. Geogre 12:25, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merging with Fool's Errand

I have to say I think Fool's Errand should be redirected to Snipe Hunt, not the other way around. BenWilson 15:22, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

From the U.S. point of view, "snipe hunt" is a far more common term. Is "fools' errand" perhaps more common in Commonwealth countries? - DavidWBrooks 16:50, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

No responses, so I merged Fool's Errand to here. - DavidWBrooks 10:17, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

• "Fool's Errand" is a far, far, far more common term than "snipe hunt" in all English countries, but it is a non-specific term, and I'd never equate the two. A "fool's errand" is any vain occupation and is not generally a prank. The snipe hunt, on the other hand, is definitely a socializing prank. In other words, I'd never have the redirect. Anyone looking up "fool's errand" is probably wishing for a dictionary definition & is at the wrong project. Geogre 12:27, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Variations

Shouldn't the 'Variations' have their own separate Wikipedia entry? Also, a couple of variations are missing -- such as the Skyhook variation and the grinderspark variation. Then all the Wikipedia entries for all variations can redirect to the single Wikipedia entry. MDRejhon

[edit] Phrase origin

Does the American name of this particular practical joke stem from the legendary difficulty of hunting real snipe (the origin of the term "sniper" as well)? If so, that fact could well be placed after the sentence about snipes and their habitat in the intro. I'd do it, but I'm not certain of the etymology (however likely seeming) and haven't yet found a reference. - toh 22:48, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

In my experience, most of the people who use this term are too stupid to realize that there even is a bird called a snipe. Gene Nygaard (talk) 02:12, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] OK, i'm an idiot

"The chant goes something like "OWATTA AS SIAM" and is chanted louder and faster until it suddenly dawns on everyone what it is they are chanting, at which point the group usually cracks up in laughter."

I assume "OWATTA AS SIAM" is meant to run together to form some amusing phrase. I just can't work out what it's supposed to be. What is it they're meant to be saying? --86.135.179.53 03:33, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

"Oh, what an ass I am". Wicked funny, eh? - DavidWBrooks 14:00, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

However, it's no longer in the article - I removed this example because it's not a "snipe hunt", it's just a practical joke, and this article is way overloaded with examples as it is. - DavidWBrooks 14:02, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Is the Snipe a Snark?

Could there be a connection with the 'Hunting of the Snark' An Agony in Eight Fits by Lewis Carroll? At the end of the long hunt it is discovered that:

He had softly and suddenly vanished away-- For the Snark was a Boojum, you see.

20.133.0.14 10:42, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

I suppose there could; is there any evidence of it, such as some letter by Carroll mentioning "snipe hunt" perhaps? - DavidWBrooks 12:54, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Very clever! Thank you for the fun idea. Sadly, i was unable to come up with any supporting evidence of this. My 100%-unscientific theory is that it came from kids taking a victim into the woods to hunt the snipe bird and ditching the victim in the woods, and it mutated into more intricate pranks. If evidence comes up for the Carroll theory i would be delighted because i enjoyed Carroll's works. I'd say this is a big reason i love WP. --Kevin L'Huillier 02:54, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category:In-jokes

Shouldn't this page be added to Category:In-jokes? I can't find how to do this. 71.244.183.104 15:46, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Great suggestion. I have added it. To see how it is done, edit the page, then look very near the bottom for the links to Category: pages. Thank you; your suggestion helped! --Kevin L'Huillier 02:46, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] an endless list

The list of examples is getting absurdly long. Nobody's going to read through all that; it's a waste that serves no reader. But I can't figure out how to cut it down - they're all equally good and/or equally bad, depending on your point of view; what possible filter could be used to trim the list? Any thoughts? - DavidWBrooks 21:40, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

definitely, WAAAAAY too many examples. Someone more in touch with the article than I should chop some of those out, like David I don't know which ones to remove. Oreo man 19:11, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree, but it looks to me like it isn't an excess of examples. I'm chopping it up, and there aren't that many. It's poorly-organized, and at least three items have been duplicated so far (blinker fluid, left-handed tools, and prop wash). Also, some explanations are far longer than necessary.

Also, since most of these are fetching a non-existent item, i am turning it into a list, organized into categories where appropriate. Hopefully it turns out good. --Kevin L'Huillier 23:08, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like an excellent approach. - DavidWBrooks 11:56, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ordering and filtering

I have the list of fake items broken up. I am not sure how to best organize them. So far there are common ones (such as a left-handed hammer) and military ones. Military ones have common, aviation/airborne, and naval. After sorting these, removing duplicates, and pairing some up (such as "a bucket of vacuum, steam, sparks, etc"), the list does appear to be long with 50-some items.

I'll try to clean up what i have a bit more. Right now it is rather unsightly. The best place to post this would be a subpage in my user talk page, correct? I'm looking here and that seems to be the recommendation.

I'll put the new list up after i get time to finish up and we can decide what to trim. --Kevin L'Huillier 20:28, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Unless you're really unsure whether you system is screwy, I'd go ahead and edit your changes right into the article. My experience with subpages is that nobody ever gets around to looking at them.

I'm not sure this would work, but maybe it could be broken first into impossible tasks vs. nonexistent objects; then under each of those two categories there could be a heading for an organization (Air Force, Boy Scouts, construction sites, miscellaneous, etc.), and under each of those headings a list of tasks or objects. Doing it in list form like that gets rid of most verbs/nouns/sentence structure and makes it easier to scan through. - DavidWBrooks 21:56, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Okay, the impossible task has been added, but there were no examples that i noticed. Perhaps i missed one. Your suggestion for categorization was similar to what i was thinking. I feel yours was better organized so i used your system.

Hopefully it looks good to you. It looks far better to me so far, but it could possibly use some revision.

One thing that i was thinking is that fool's errand is not really close enough to a snipe hunt to warrant these errands being placed in Snipe Hunt's article. A snipe hunt may often be a fool's errand, but i would hardly call looking for a bucket of steam a snipe hunt. It may just be dialect and interpretation of the phrasing.

I noticed you covered this discussion earlier, but after making these edits the distinction has become a bit more clear. Perhaps we should reopen the merge/split discussion?

Please comment on this revision, and be kind. I have made many edits, but this was my first major one. And thank you for the advice, David. --Kevin L'Huillier 02:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I really like the categorization, but this really seems to make it more clear there is a good case for changing the title of the article to Fools errand or Wild goose chase. Snipe hunt should really just be a variation of those as there is so much here that isn't a snipe hunt. In other words every snipe hunt is a wild goose chase but not every wild goose chase is a snipe hunt. It should still be one merged page, just not by this name. Nowimnthing 20:33, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

What's an example of a wild-goose chase that wouldn't be a snipe hunt? Nothing comes to mind at the moment. - DavidWBrooks 20:54, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

You're right, maybe I should have said not every fool's errand is a snipe hunt. When you send someone to find something that is nonexistent it is a snipe hunt/wild goose chase. When you give someone an impossible task (which obtaining nonexistent item would be a subset of) it is a fool's errand. So I guess the page title should be Fool's errand. Nowimnthing 18:59, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Good sir/madam i must agree with you completely. It was something that came to mind while rewriting the article, and i am glad someone else brought it up. Snipe hunts are a type of fool's errand and should fall under that article. I will add a talk section and if there are no objections, i feel it should be moved and Snipe Hunt should redirect. --Kevin L'Huillier 03:13, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Baggage Trailer

The HBO Television series Carnivale claims that carnival workers use a nonexistent baggage trailer for this kind of joke. I'm not adding it to the page since I don't have independent confirmation, but if anyone does, I suggest adding it. See HBO's guide to the episode in question. I grant that the entry is example-heavy, but many people are fascinated by carny culture. Eggsyntax 22:50, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Move to Fool's errand

There is discussion of moving Snipe hunt to Fool's errand. The original commentary was here:

Talk:Snipe hunt#Ordering and filtering

--Kevin L'Huillier 03:16, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dropbear

Just letting everyone know I altered the section on Dropbears a little bit, mostly because they are an actual urban legend around here, instead of just a character made for an advertisement for a Beer company. Kokiri kid 01:10, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Metric adjustable spanner

The metric adjustable wrench isn't as far-fetched as some people think; In my part of the world (Europe), adjustable spanners often have a (metric) scale on its jaws, thereby enabling the user to roughly measure the size of the nut/bolt encountered... Therefore, i am inclined to think it should be removed from this list. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.63.38.171 (talk • contribs) 20:09, 3 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Unsourced list

I propose that the unsourced list of "snipe hunts" be removed. It adds virtually nothing to the article. The Jade Knight 00:18, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nine Inch Nails

Er, these do indeed exist and are used in house carpentry.

Most people don't know this, and will assume you mean the band. KillTheToy (talk) 23:04, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

I heard nine inch nails are used in building coffins, to prevent them from popping open as the wood warps in reaction to underground moisture... Foxpoet (talk) 04:28, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Other Common Military errends missing

These are from USMC (about 20 years ago) but I am sure they exist in all branches of US military services, however they also fall into the catagory of a practical joke.

Long Stand / Long Weight (ie: send a person to a supply warehouse, admin, tool room, etc. and ask for a "long weight" and after about 5 minutes the person will be told they "waited" long enough)

Sending a woman for "a screw": (WARNING - This one would probably get you in trouble for sexual harassment if tried in todays "politically correct" world - even in the Military !!!)

[edit] Move to Fool's errand

This has been discussed before, but I think it needs to be addressed again. I think this page should be moved to Fool's errand because that is the more generic and common term. As described above, it is also more encompassing, since Fool's errands include all impossible tasks, not just fruitless searches like snipe hunts. Dhaluza (talk) 20:31, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree that something should be done. I came here after clicking on a link to "wild goose chase", and do not think that "Snipe hunt" (which I may have heard of before, but if so can't really recall it) has much at all to do with "wild goose chase". Both "fool's errand" and "wild goose chase" are much more common expressions in my opinion. --RenniePet (talk) 03:54, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

I disagree, because they refer to very different things. A "snipe hunt" is specifically a prank perpetrated upon the gullible or inexperienced. A "wild goose chase" is any impossible search, even a self-initiated one, or an impossible search imposed by someone who doesn't know it's impossible. A "fool's errand" is any impossible task, whether a search or any other task. The key is how the task is initiated: Did a person initiate the task knowing it was impossible? "Wild goose chase" is a subset of "fool's errand," but "snipe hunt" is in a different class. I got here by searching for "snipe hunt," and got exactly the page I wanted. Foxpoet (talk) 04:37, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I have NEVER heard the use of the term "Snipe Hunt" in the generic fashion that it's represented as here. A snipe hunt has always been a specific adventure hunting for an imaginary animal on a camping trip. From my experience a "Fool's Errand" is the more generic term. Running around an airport trying to find a bucket of propwash and a 100 feet of flightline is a fool's errand, not a snipe hunt. Dictionary.com puts the specific "snipe hunt" first, the generic definition second. Fool's errand has only the generic definition. I'd like to see seperate articles or Snipe Hunt as a subsection of Fool's Errand rather than vice versa. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.70.6.236 (talk) 22:02, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sourcing?

Hate to point this out, but there is a huge sourcing problem here, with a big side of excess trivia. Absent of reliable sources, pretty much everything listed is "something I heard of..." No doubt the list has been compiled in good faith, but that doesn't circumvent WP:NOT, WP:V and other policies. Deiz talk 10:32, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Cleaned up according to policy. Please ensure future additions are reliably sourced. Deiz talk 17:37, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

No, you didn't clean up, you just indiscriminately deleted everything. For example, you didn't go through the regional subsection; the links point to sourced articles. Actually a fork to a separate "list of" article would be better than just delete everything. --Vuo (talk) 19:07, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Lists still require sourcing and context, whether they are separate or within a parent article. Items require their own sources in this article, regardless of being sourced in other articles. Despite requests for sourcing on this discussion page and tagging the article, nothing was apparently done to bring this article in line with policy, hence the cleanup. Please don't add unsourced information to articles, as you did when reverting my policy-mandated removal of unsourced trivia. Deiz talk 06:40, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

You still did delete the sourced regional section, but left the "in popular culture" section alone. Which is more "trivia" and "unsourced"? And you also removed the references. It looks like you didn't even read what you did, you just reverted. I'm restoring the article and then we can pare it individually section-by-section. --Vuo (talk) 14:15, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

On a second though, there's too much of work to do at one instant. I deleted the trivia sections but tried to explain the snipe hunts such that it's not just deleting everything. The pointless "in popular culture" section is found everywhere, I removed it because it does not add encyclopedia content to the article. --Vuo (talk) 14:43, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

I think you're catching my drift.. I highly recommend against restoring everything and "paring it section by section" - the only way to make this work is to remove the mass of unsourced / trivial / WP:NFT items, find sources for the information that can be reliably sourced and restore them as and when with appropriate citations. I personally think a short list, such as the one in the current article, is absolutely sufficient for the encyclopedia. I noted the possible consequences of simply readding the unsourced content on your talk page, I'm sure that's a route neither of us want to go down. As far as the regional section goes, I see what you mean by "sources", aka bluelinks to other articles. You're right, it's a good section and I was wrong to remove it. Being a Scottish ex-pat, I get plenty of mileage out of telling students about the fearsome wild haggis in the Highlands... Pop culture references are useful in establishing the notability of a subject - 3 solid references to major films / shows / etc is a good rule of thumb. Given that the pop culture refs were also unsourced, I can't object to their removal, but I'm not against a short, appropriate list of that kind. I get plenty of grief for pruning such lists, but I rarely delete them entirely. Deiz talk 15:48, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Please read WP:IAR, you have gone against something which following the rules, this could be construed as vandalism in some form could it not? Klichka (talk) 23:28, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Absolutely not. IAR does not excuse Wikipedia from being an encyclopedia, or allow it to become a dumping ground for useless trivia. What, specifically, are you concerned about? Deiz talk 00:04, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Where can we put these facts then? It's useful information that must be preserved and this article is weak because the area is relatively undocumented. What do you propose we do with an undocumented area? Wikipedia should go places that no other encyclopedia has dare gone in its quest to become the first and final stop for information. (It's also late here so I'll be better able to discuss this later) Klichka (talk) 08:02, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

You're on a philosophical tangent that needs to be discussed on a bigger page than this, the WP:V discussion page for example. I can't overstate the simplicity of this fact - information on Wikipedia must be reliably sourced. Hence, as far as Snipe Hunt goes, please source anything you wish to add per WP:V. Thanks, Deiz talk 06:38, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Problems

This page has an immense number of problems. First, there's a problem with scope of this writeup. There definitely needs to be some disambiguation here. "Snipe hunt" can mean three different things. It can mean an expedition for the harvesting of snipe, an actual game bird similar to a sandpiper. It can mean a specific prank from the midwest USA, involving some variation of putting a mark in an isolated place (usually at night, and with a bag) and telling them to "wait for the snipe" that you'll be herding in their direction. Third, it can mean a class of pranks, generally described below.

Second, there's no organization. There's just random lists of jokes that have been played on people, with no sources, no explanations, and no logical structure.

Finally, why does "Fool's Errand" redirect here? There's only one definition of "fool's errand" (except maybe some artwork titles) and this isn't a dictionary. It certainly isn't noteworthy or deserving of being in an encyclopedia. And even if it was, "fool's errand" is certainly a better expression/usage/whatever than "snipe hunt". "Fool's errand" has a much closer meaning to the actual content here than "snipe hunt", as the primary definition of "fool's errand" is "a fruitless mission" while the primary definition of "snipe hunt" is a "practical joke involving sending a mark to wait in the dark for snipe". 165.134.208.120 (talk)

In discussion pages, please add new sections at the bottom, using the "+" button. —Tamfang (talk) 18:30, 3 April 2008 (UTC)