Talk:Smilodon

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To-do list for Smilodon: edit · history · watch · refresh
  • Add section on discovery.
  • Info on the debate on how Smilodon killed it's prey.
  • More info on Smilodon's social behavior, habitat, and anatomy.
  • Cite sources on extinction.

Bobisbob (talk) 04:35, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Priority 4  

Contents

[edit] Categories

I'm not really understanding why my category additions which listed this animal as a pleistocene mammal, which it was, were removed. It would seem to me that a more precise placement of an extinct animal in the geologic time scale would be beneficial to readers, particularly since most readers are, assumingly, unaware of the time frames in which animals lived. This category, I argue, offers some perspective on the pleistocene era and the contemporary mammals of this epoch. There seems to me to be no good reason why it would have been removed. However, in the interest of considering the opinions of the user who reverted the edit, I am open to public comment on the issue. Thank you,

--aremisasling 02:57, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

  • No conspiracy here: it was just an error. All reverted now. – ClockworkSoul 03:00, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
    • Fair enough. I apologize for my terseness. I've become accustomed to the occasional revision or deletion of my contributions for less understandable reasons. It's a touch frustrating. I'm relieved it was just a simple error. No harm done. I appreciate your quick response. --216.228.28.177 04:04, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
    • No problem: just remember, always try to asume good faith (as difficult as it may be sometimes). The few wars I've found myself in only happened because one party or another forgot that keystone policy. – ClockworkSoul 19:39, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Contradiction

"A fully-grown Smilodon weighed approximately 200 kilograms (450 pounds) and had a short tail, powerful legs and a large head. About the size of a lion smilodon was extremely powerful and about twice as heavy. Its jaws could open 95 degrees. Its fangs were about 17 cm (7 inches) long."

A contradiction in the same paragraph: "Smilodon weighed approximately 200 kg" and "About the size of a lion smilodon was ... about twice as heavy" 72.129.170.249 19:53, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Size and Weight can be different, I think the size here is referring to length and height MelicansMatkin 23:01, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Large prey

I've heard numerous times that their teeth would break if used to grip large prey, from people who ought to be credible but usually in the popular media and never with the details of the calculation or a link to where the calculation was published. It would be nice if someone could actually find the information. dsws 21:34, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

All I can say is that I've seen demonstrations where the demonstrator showed that the long teeth were used to deliver the typical cat "kill bite" that cats still use today to break their prey's neck. Lord Sephiroth03:17, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "saber-toothed tiger" redirects

Saber-toothed tiger and various similar names redirect here to Smilodon. However, checking a few dictionaries, they all say something like "any of various..."

  • any of several extinct members of the cat family Felidae from the Oligocene to Pleistocene Epochs, having greatly elongated, saberlike upper canine teeth.[1]
  • Any of various extinct cats of the Oligocene to the Pleistocene Epoch, especially one of the larger members of the genus Smilodon, characterized by long upper canine teeth.[2]

So since this is a wide, generic term that applies to more than just Smilodon, I'm going to redirect saber-toothed tiger and similar names over to the more generic saber-toothed cat. — coelacan talk — 21:02, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Grammar cleanup

I'm not sure what this line is supposed to be saying, but it needs to be fixed:

The summer and winter both became more extreme and North America began to dry out or begin beging covered in which would snow food sources for the Mammoth and in turn Smilodon.

If someone who's researched the subject could clean up the article a bit that'd be helpful.James A. Stewart 19:21, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Extinction because "did not evolve". No.

"Another theory is that the large cats did not evolve with the times like other big cats to catch their prey." -- Vague/tautological/meaningless pop cultural (mis)understanding of evolution/extinction. Of course it's true to say that if a species became extinct, then it didn't "evolve"/adapt to conditions. It's also meaningless. It's like the old saw that one can always say that a person died "because his/her heart ceased to beat." Yes, but why? -- Writtenonsand (talk) 17:40, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Quite right. Almost all modern species were contemporaneous with Smilodon, and have not changed much if at all since it became extinct only 10,000 years ago – a blink of an eye. The survivors did not survive by "evolving", but on the whole by being lucky for one reason or another. Likewise it is incorrect to contrast Smilodon with "modern" cats, as if these came along after it went extinct. Cats just like those that we still have lived alongside Smilodon for millions of years, and they were no more similar to it then than they are now. If Smilodon hadn't been so unfortunate, it would be "modern" too. --Richard New Forest (talk) 22:02, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Relationships to other subfamilies of Felidae

I changed this sentence because it is not accurate without reference to the Machairodontinae being a sister clade to the extant subfamilies. Also "modern" should be accompanied by a date of evolution (branching) comparison with the Machairodontinae and isn't the correct term. The statement was to imprecise. --Amaltheus (talk) 23:42, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Help with expansion

This article is too short and less detailed for an article about a well known animal. There are whole documentaries that discuss how Smilodon hunted and lived. I would expand more but I can't do it alone. Anybody intersted? Bobisbob (talk) 02:10, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

It is short with poorly developed sections. There are articles about the various species. I assume the Smilodon fatalis is where writers put their efforts. What kind of help do you think you need? I don't really have the time, but I'll watch the page and copy-edit your text if that will help. --Amaltheus (talk) 03:36, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Can you find me detailed articles on Smilodon? Bobisbob (talk) 15:49, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Too many Smilodon articles

  • Shouldn't they all be concentrated here instead of having a separate article for every single species? Funkynusayri (talk) 20:30, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
I just asked this at WikiProject Mammals (Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Mammals#Merge_articles_on_Pacas.3F), and Aranae replied "every species warrants its own page."
I don't know whether this is the general opinion at that Project or not. -- Writtenonsand (talk) 22:03, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Ah, well, ok, I'm just more used to the guidelines at the Dino project, where only genera have pages. Funkynusayri (talk) 22:08, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
I believe if there is enough evidence to warrant a large article, then a page for that species is warranted. But in general articles on extinct species are to the genus level and modern extinct and extant species to the species and even sub-species level. Enlil Ninlil (talk) 12:01, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
I agree. In this case Smilodon fatalis adds no more detailed info, in fact Smilodon gives more info about all the species. I'd support a merge. Philcha (talk) 03:13, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
  • -- On 3 April 2008 User:Kevmin added the merge template to this rticle with the note "It has been suggested that Smilodon fatalis, Smilodon gracilis and Smilodon populator be merged into this article or section." -- Writtenonsand (talk) 02:18, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
I think that this is a situation where we should be following WP:Dinosaurs more then WP Mammals. While Smilodon is a popular preditor most of the extinct mammals are not well known to the public, and even the species of Smilodon are not well known. As they are now Smilodon gracilis is a two sentences stub which repetes what is already said in theSmilodon article. Smilodon populator while a larger article, again repeats a large amount and has no citations for the remaining material. Looking at the other Genera in the Machairodontinae, three of the nine genera do not have an article at all and of the other six Smilodon is by far the largest an the only one which has species articles. Machairodus has 19 species listed, none with articles, and the genus article itself is 4 sentences long. For the state of extinct mammals in general look at Brontotheriidae and the Nine! extinct families of Perissodactyls, with no articals. The vast majority of prehistoric mammals are not going to have enough information for an article for every species, there just isnt enough known from the fossils.--Kevmin (talk) 15:11, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
Although on the other hand (complicating efforts to arrive at a general policy on this) we have cases like Mammuthus, with nine species listed (eight with existing articles); possibility of more to be added (I think); and differences great enough to make lumping say, M. imperator, M. lamarmorae, and M. primigenius together in the same article to seem an inappropriate choice. -- Writtenonsand (talk) 02:05, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
-- FYI all: General discussion of this issue proceeding now at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Mammals. -- Writtenonsand (talk) 02:10, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Metric AND English

Please add English units along with the Metric units. 7 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Diet and hunting": "citation needed" tag

Someone's put a "citation needed" tag at the end of the final para of section "Diet and hunting". As far as I can see the citation already provided with that para covers the ground. If no explanation for the "citation needed" tag is provided within a couple of weeks I'll remove the tag. Philcha (talk) 10:22, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

I notice someone has placed an HTML comment (invisible) after the "citation" tag, saying that's not what the research actually showed. It would have been helpful if the person who wrote the comment had provided the full ref - DOI is no use to non-specialist readers. I found the ref and added it. Philcha (talk) 02:45, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Smilodon

I always figured it was called "smilodon" because of its toothy grin. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 18:02, 18 April 2008 (UTC)