Talk:smart (automobile)

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[edit] Duplicate Page

This article is duplicated at Smart Fortwo ... these pages should be merged...

[edit] Total Mess

Much of the information in this article is outdated or completely wrong.

---FoxMajik 19:21, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Distribution in US

I took out a lot of the stuff about Zap moters because it sounded like a corporate shill. For other people's reference, Zap says on their web site that they have "forged an exclusive technology licensing agreement with Smart-Automobile LLC allowing the certification of the Smart Car". Smart-Automobile LLC is _not_ affiliated with Daimler-Chrysler. Zap is not the only importer and may not even have been the first. I also took out the part about "[the smart-car is not sold in the US] owing to a fear of possible market positioning confusion, Mercedes-Benz wishing to maintain an aura of high priced luxury that enables it to keep profit margins high. That aura is also used to cancel its B-Class program for the American market in light of escalating fuel prices." because it strikes me as unlikely and as conjecture. If someone has a citation they can put it back in. Jerdwyer 04:25, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

We should at least mention them, since they are one of only a few distributors. --WhiteDragon 15:58, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Capitalization

I don't like the way this page is titled. I originally called it "Smart (automobile)".

The company calls itself "smart" (lowercase), but I tend to favour capitalization of all trademarks despite brand managers often wanting everyone to mimic the typography logos.

The thing "Smart" is a car, not a company. At least, this is the most sensible way of adding (type) information. If we use (company), then just about every manufactured product - guns, planes, etc. - get lumped in to being a (company) - not useful. The page does not define an individual vehicle of course, but the word "automobile" is quite acceptable to describe an automobile type as well as an actual vehicle. It's fine to describe the company history in an (automobile) page of course.

MCC changed its name to Smart GmbH in September 2002. --Pc13 08:12, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Perhaps (car) would be better still, although I've started to use (automobile) elsewhere - for Bristol etc. -- Hotlorp

(car) is better than (automobile). (automobile) is North American usage whereas (car) is used globally. Apart from a global word being better anyway, as a European product, I think the style guide suggests (car) over (automobile). On the subject of capitalisation, if "Smart" is going to be used generally, there should be a reference to the car being marketed as "smart". GavinTillman 14:13, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

I support your recommendations. Please make the necessary changes; or, ask me to help :-) --Ed Poor

I'm ok with redirects, but how do you remove a page entirely? Is this something only sysops can do? I've noticed several weird titles (with titles that look like typos) still around, but as redirects. Do you like car or automobile? -- Hotlorp

I don't think you or I can remove pages entirely. Just delete all their text, and write "please delete" in the summary box before you click the "Save page" button.
Please list any titles with typos, at my talk page, and I will fix them.
I don't care much whether it's Beetle (car) or Beetle (automobile), as long as we're consistent. --Ed Poor

Returning to the issue of lowercase or other special capitalization when companies seem to request it for their trademarks -- smart, quattro, BAE SYSTEMS -- we need to be careful. The typographic convention that trademarks should have an initial capital is very old, and very useful. Since we can all publish, we are all typographers now, many of us inexperienced. For matters like capitalization some people (including magazine editors) are too easily swayed by "authority" to use the capitalization that an organization uses in its publications, or in its logo. It's important to realize that use of a trademark outside of an organization is a different thing to usage by its members. The word exists outside of the logo, and will outlive its managers in Wiki and related places; the fact that it's a trademark -- and thus not to be found in most dictinonaries -- is a useful fact that is succinctly recorded in its capitalization.

If organizations start to exert control over this aspect of referring to them, there's no telling where it might end... Insistence on use of a special symbol (Prince)? Insistence that all mentions of "smart" are hyperlinked?

Perhaps it's wrong to characterize the problem as typographic - more useful might be a distinction between spelling (which excludes capitalization) and orthography (which includes it).

Stand up for a great typographic tradition!

-- Hotlorp

I agree that one cannot use lower case in a proper noun in English. If I wrote my name "david", would anyone else write it that way. At most not often. Certainly companies should not have more rights than private individuals. In addition, there is the practice of using Capitals for the first letters of the titles of Wikipedia articles and heading. The logo is shown, so anyone can see that they write in in lower case. A logo need not use proper English but an encyclopedia must. David R. Ingham 00:49, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Also, notice that there is a Smart car (smart car) page, about cars with artificial inteligence. David R. Ingham 03:36, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

I changed the capitalization here and everywhere I found the names. Some links to model names must not have worked until I changed the other pages to agree with changes here. david 00:21, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

It is sort of funny using lower case to name a mini- or micro-car, like submissives on Internet chat. David R. Ingham 01:14, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

The reason one cannot write an encyclopedia with lower case proper nouns is like the reason one cannot write a complicated computer program in simple Basic with all its line numbers and GOTOs. It is not readable locally. In the case of Basic, the problem is that one can't ever fix or change anything without looking at the rest of the program to see if control is transferred there from somewhere else in a way that causes a new bug with the change. Programs in that computer language, therefore, become "worn out" faster than programs (well) written in languages like C++ and Ada. So if we keep doing things like using lower case proper nouns, the encyclopedia may eventually get worn out, in the sense that no-one can read it or change it because the articles are too long to read all of, and the individual paragraphs don't make sense by themselves because they appear to do things like using adjectives as proper nouns.

People such as James Joyce and E. E. Cummings can write that way, though it limits the potential readership, because a novel, unlike an encyclopedia, is intended to be read from cover to cover. David R. Ingham 16:46, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Goodness, Mervyn, you found one I missed. Maybe it is good after-all that I am not working on software anymore. David R. Ingham 07:44, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

On the other hand, it was in quotes. David R. Ingham 07:47, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Added the lowercase tag. Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(technical_restrictions)#Lower_case_first_letter April 5th, 2006. Seems to be the proper procedure in such cases as these.

No I don't think the title of this article should be in lower case. "Smart" is here a proper noun. The manufacturer is free to use lower case but that can't be carried into an encyclopedia. David R. Ingham 21:53, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

As I understand it, the result of this discussion is to name the page "Smart", not "smart". Which is done... for the talk page, but not for the article. Since when do these two get different names? Why is the page not renamed according to consensus? --87.189.71.126 (talk)

[edit] Hambach

Hambach is in France (Lorraine), not Germany as someone just changed it to. It probably was in Germany some years ago...

Sorry! I looked up Hambach on Google and all the results came up in German, so I jumped to the wrong conclusion. -- Heron

Sources:

Alsace and Lorraine are natively German speaking but now part of France. They were annexed by Germany after the Franco-Prussian War and taken back by France after WW I. So the earliest Bugattis were German. Most early Bugattis were 1500 cc and probably lighter than the Smart. David R. Ingham 01:14, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually the creator of Bugatti cars was Italian. It just happened his factory was first in German territory and now what is French territory. The cars are really no more French than they are German..

Well as the Brand Bugatti was bought by Volkswagen they are indeed German ;) (now) As well as Rolls Royce and Bentley who were bought by BMW and Volkswagen.

History should include EPA approval date.

I was hoping wikipedia would tell more about engine/drive layouts, suspension, transmission etc. Smart certainly doesn't seem to want to hand out much info.

Why has this page been moved? Smart (car) is the sensible page name. Please also justify using the lowercase 's', as we're not in the context of marketing the car. Hotlorp 00:27, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

I support a move back or we should move Mercedes-Benz to DaimlerChrysler Mercedes-Benz ? Ericd 20:19, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

  • Ditto. Otherwise we should have DaimlerChrysler Mercedes-Benz, DaimlerChrysler Maybach, DaimlerChrysler Chrysler, etc...83.204.89.235 01:54, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
    • General Motors Chevrolet & General Motors Cadillac ? Ericd 22:38, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
      • Absolutely. You couldn't remember "General Motors Hummer H2 American Red Cross Emergency Response Vehicle"? I mean, come on. I'd love a "Ford Motor Company Land Rover Range Rover Sport TDV6". By the way, if you don't find the sarcasm, look harder or realize that I think it's a dumb idea to add "DaimlerChrysler" in front of the name of every asset of one automotive manufacturer. No one sells a Lexus SC400 as a Toyota Motor Corporation Lexus SC400. If anything, it's a "Lexus Supra". Zchris87v 00:09, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Brand names

Doesn't "Forfour" infringe on Morgan's 4/4? David R. Ingham 02:57, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Superflous information

A lot of the information about Smart outside of Europe seems focused on the forTwo... this information is in the forTwo article, so shouldn't it be trimmed down a bit?

[edit] Copyright violation

I've tagged the section on distribution in the United States as copyright violation, since most of it is directly copied and pasted from an article available on the Daimler-Chrysler website. --benwildeboer D(talk - contribs) 18:43, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pop Culture section also in Smart Fortwo article

When I started the Smart vehicles in popular culture section, I was unaware that another existed here [1]. Since then both sections have grown, but while I wouldn't want to see them both disappear, it does seem superfluous for them to both list the same thing. Should one of the sections be deleted, should they be left alone, should there be a seperate article (a bit much at this point given how brief the list is), should one section direct to the other, or what?

[edit] External links

I tried to integrate some of the external links into footnotes where relevant, and I took out some really silly ones. Should more be done? I'm wondering about the smart car modification site and the MOMA expo, to be specific. Rkaufman13 15:34, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] URL format for linking to this page

This does not form a proper URL and is impossible to link to with the _(automobile) in the URL. The page needs to be moved to a page with a standard name! 142.165.246.30 (talk) 15:55, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_(automobile)

[edit] Drive

As the engine is rear-mounted, I question whether this vehicle is rear wheel, front-wheel or all-wheel drive. I can't see it mentioned anywhere.

trezjr (talk) 04:20, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

The page for the ForTwo says it's RR, rear engine/wheel drive. John Nevard (talk) 05:32, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] To add to article

  • What is the layout of the engine and transmission of this car??
  • What is the weight of the different varieties of this car?
  • Can it legally be driven on the highway in Europe or North America (because it is so tiny)?
  • What is the top speed of the non-electric Smart car being sold in the U.S.?

Badagnani (talk) 21:48, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

The smart can reach motorway speeds without any difficulty, and its legal status is no different from that of any other car on the road. I see them on the 401 and other major roads regularly, and that's the older version, which didn't have as good acceleration. I don't know the precise top speed, but certainly it's higher than any speed limit you're likely to encounter. David Arthur (talk) 22:22, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I'd asked about the weight because it looks so small that two big guys could carry one off. Badagnani (talk) 05:56, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

I found a brochure that gives its weight as 820 kg for the convertible, and 840 kg for the regular model. David Arthur (talk) 18:55, 24 May 2008 (UTC)