Talk:Slum

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Contents 1 Attempting some small improvements 2 Is a slum architecture? 3 Neoliberalism is the problem? 4 Crime and (in) the slums 5 Irrelevent 6 Cleanup 7 Irrelevant 8 Too Malaysian 9 Too Polarized+Malaysian 10 More objective view needed 11 Income disparity 12 No data available for the northern hemisphere? 13 Message by Rhino209

[edit] Attempting some small improvements

A big problem with this page appears to be that what is called a slum varies substantially from country to country, so the sweeping statements here need to be qualified. I've tried to do this by altering the language and introducing a very broad definition of a slum from UN-Habitat. I hope the page can briefly introduce the reader to the debate about what constitutes a slum but not get bogged down in it. To make a start I added criteria used to identify slums stated by a UN Expert Group and also refer to a slightly different set of criteria used by a research team in Bangladesh.

Under Growth and countermeasures - I've left some quite big generalisations in because it seemed to me they are more or less true internationally, although some more specific examples and references would definitely help. The income disparity section is totally irrelevant as it stands. It would be useful to have such a section, though, if it could be focused on the relations between income disparity and slums, internationally.

Under ghetto vs. slum I've removed the definition of slum which just repeats what is said elsewhere on the page.--81.179.87.128 23:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

A good way forward would be to add sections "Slums in history" and "Slums in developing countries" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.178.91.75 (talk • contribs)

[edit] Is a slum architecture?

I do not understand why slum is part of architecture. To me a slum is a mixture of planning, psychology and politics, but not a part of architecture. If the world of slum dwellers is to improve, Wikipedia should move slum from architecture to poverty where it can be properly dealt with. Wikipedia says: "Poverty is an economic condition of lacking both money and basic necessities needed to successfully live."

On another tack, for some years now I have been recording slum demolition around the world. I would like to start doing putting this on the internet on Wikipedia as I feel it is an important topic and one that lends itself to collaboration. My idea is to start a topic called 'Slum demolition' and then start listing demolitions by country and century. Is this a good idea? Who should I ask? I am new to Wikipedia.

you don't need to ask anybody. if you want to make changes to an article, make them, be bold. that sounds like a good idea for a section to me. --Cwhalvor 04:11, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Forum for SLUM

[edit] Neoliberalism is the problem?

Why is Neoliberalism the cause of war corruption and poverty in the third world countries?? It's povish setence.

According to Rasna Wara in "The Challenge of Slums: Global Report on Human Settlements 2003" - "Although the common perception is that slums are breeding grounds for crime, the report shows that slum dwellers, in fact, are more often victims than perpetrators of crime." Assertion in the wiki article is both factually wrong and bigoted.

[edit] Crime and (in) the slums

Discussing crime and its relations with the shanty towns is a complex effort. If, in fact, crimes such as robbery or drug dealing are the 'way of life' of a few people in the slums, since these crimes are closely related with massive poverty in the third world, we shall not forget that slum inhabitants are the most frequent victims of those crimes, given the lack of security in there, and, at the same time, defenseless victims of white collar crimes perpetrated by government's or corporations' 'big fishes'.

[edit] Irrelevent

I disagree that etymology is irrelevant. The OED indicates that the word slum first appeared shortly after the turn of the 17th century, about the time people in the first industrializing capitalizing countries were being hedged off their land and absorbed by the new phenomenon of factories. There seem to be connotations of poverty, slacker, and mild cheating attached to the word. It may be etymologically descended from slime. --User:Muriel

In carnival slang, slum is the term for the cheap trinkets that people win at the games of chance. The stuffed toys are called plush. I removed this sentence because it is irrelevent to this article.--Esmason 06:01, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

In many slums, especially in poor countries, people live in very narrow alleys that do not allow vehicles (like ambulances and fire trucks) to pass. Why is this relevent to the article? If you are going to put this in explain why this is a problem, don't just leave it hanging.--Esmason 06:01, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

I didn't write the sentence, but isn't it obvious that if ambulances and fire trucks can't pass then people will die in emergencies? Geffb 19:35, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

What i meant is like there should be a reference and it should be expanded...i guess the whole article needs an overhaul--Esmason 00:36, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

I have recently done some cleanup on this article. Just thought everyone should know! huntersquid 17:22, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Irrelevant

Wide streets exist in the "super-slum" where I live. People employ those wide streets to bring trash, garbage, and contraband (i. e., drugs) into the "super-slum" where I live. Many clean cities of Europe and Asia feature narrow streets, ergo, narrow streets do not indicate the presence of a slum. Wide streets, freeways, highways, expressways, and railways have been constructed in the Great Superslum. Superslum 10:50, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Too Malaysian

Could someone either take down some of the Malaysia pictures and/or replace with some from other places? All of the pictures toward the end of the page were taken in Kuala Lumpur. The article needs more about non-Malaysian slums and less emphasis on the growing slum population in Malaysia, although that goes along with the previous expansion request. Cwilli201 03:24, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Okay I agree. futurebird 21:27, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Agreed as well. We could use some pictures of US slum neighborhoods, such as those in Baltimore or Detroit, for example. --Kukini 02:30, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I think baltimore and Detroit would lack the crowded aspect that's a part of what makes a slum a slum. These areas are acutely underpopulated. New york on the lower east side in the five points era would be ideal.

Due to automobiles and lots of inexpensive gas not even city slums are crowded by global standards. There are regions poverty and bombed out regions of once proud cities.

I do have some photos of american urban decay-- but it's mostly abandon places. Do you think that would work?

I think a 1950s era american trailer park could also work. What do you think?

I put in an image request for this page, I hope that helps.

futurebird 03:57, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree that the pictures should be taken down. They also contradict the article as the malaysian houses are temporary shack-type buildings, whilst the article states slums are comprised of permanent housing.

[edit] Too Polarized+Malaysian

It's not just a matter of having too many Malaysian pictures. Much of the article discusses slums in Malaysia, which serves to:

1) Make Malaysia seem more desolate than it is. For example, it is stated that Malaysia has more income disparity than other Southeast Asian countries. But this neglects to disclose that Southeast Asia has dramatically lower income disparity rates in comparison to South Asia, East Asia, Northern and Sub-Saharan Africa, West Asia, AND Latin America (perhaps there are more)! As a recent visitor of Malaysia (was there less than 10 days ago!), I can say that though Malaysia currently does not have developed status, it ranks highly among other developing countries, and certainly should not be the showcase example of dilapidated living conditions!

2) Push the focus away from more desolate areas.

3) Reinforce the idea that Asian nations are behind

4) Take the focus away from the fact that developed nations with positive economic images also have major slum presences (New Orleans!)

[edit] More objective view needed

This article reflects an inbalanced view of slums, portraying them in a very negative light instead of an objective one. The reference to them being places of despair (and crime as another editor pointed out) undermines the resourcefullness and motivation of many inhabitants of slums around the world.

This article also states that a slum is different froma favela - this is incorrect - 'favela' is simply the Portuguese word for slum.

If a more accurate portrayel is sought the New Internationalist back issue Jan/Feb 2006 - issue 386 is a good place to start. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.125.93.52 (talk) 14:10, 20 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Income disparity

I'd suggest nuking the whole income disparity bit. The article and its references don't clarify the connection between this and slums, and the snatch theft article seems completely irrelevant. Jpatokal 07:20, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] No data available for the northern hemisphere?

The image "Urban population living in slums.png" seems odd to me. There is no data available for the US, Canada and whole Europe, except Greenland! Where apparently up to 10% of the people live in slums...strange. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.176.82.54 (talk) 06:33, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Message by Rhino209

This text does not represent a good summary or synthesis of what we know about 'slums' - as can be seen by the very limited references. My personal view is also that neither of the main references given are good sources of information about this topic. There is also a growing documentation of 'slums' by their inhabitants and their own organizations and federations (see www.sdinet.org) that this article misses. Rhino209 (talk) 07:23, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Hello and thank you for your message. Please feel free to improve the article, the source you quote seems to be very interesting, in order to complement sources from UN-Habitat or other "official" evaluations. I am working on the French version of this articles and it will be useful for me. I'm afraid I can't help on the English version, I wouldn't write anything good. Cheers, le Korrigan →bla 16:19, 30 December 2007 (UTC)