Talk:Skopje Airport

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[edit] NEW NAME

Has the name "actually" been approved by IATA?

Philhellenism 00:37, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

No, but our friends are very very very hurry! I don't even know if the picture is real, since there is nothing official from their govnerment, on the press or anywhere else, just only the willing to change the name, nothing more or nothing less! I believe for the reliability of wikipedia everything should change as they were before!

There is no Alexander the Great Airport (Skopje) nor Alexander the Great Airport (Kavala), but Skopje Airport (Petrovec) and Kavala International Airport (Megas Alexandros), Megas Alexandros = Alexander the Great in English...

so the ultra nationalists from both sides, stop the stupidities and revert everything as they were!!! --xvvx 09:20, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The name has changed and the signs are real

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070113/ids_photos_wl/r2805831339.jpg

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/13012007/46/photo/traffic-sign-skopje-s-airport-renamed-alexsandar-veliki-alexander-great.html

You are kidding me right? The image you uploaded is official from where? Even if the image exists, that doesn't mean that the IATA/ICAO accepted that name... there is nothing official! And for the image that you uploaded, you deleted all the infos, that of course show that you have no real clue about the image license http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Image%3AL2308511.jpg&diff=100749199&oldid=100742507 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Image:L2308511.jpg&oldid=100742507 is that the official source Somewebsite/no license?
Even if there is a possibility that to change in the future, the official article name should be "Airport Aleksandar Veliki (Skopje)" and not "Alexander the Great Airport (Skopje)". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sakis79 (talk • contribs) 01:55, 16 January 2007 (UTC).
This article is in English not Macedonian so the name should be Alexander the Great.

Another picture showing "Alexander the Great" http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20070116/i/r4067697907.jpg —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.165.16.53 (talk) 21:59, 16 January 2007 (UTC).

No that's not correct! Wait first to see the name in IATA/ICAO and then we'll see the correct official name! See for example the Kavala International Airport "Megas Alexandros" ("Megas Alexandros"="Alexander the Great"), is the official name with latin characters http://worldaerodata.com/wad.cgi?id=GR83147&sch=LGKV . When (and if) the change will happen, then the article name should be "Skopje Airport Aleksandar Veliki" (or something like that), just like the Kavala "Megas Alexandros" airport http://worldaerodata.com/wad.cgi?id=GR83147&sch=LGKV . Then inside the article you can write what "Aleksandar Veliki" means. You must write the name in the official IATA/ICAO international form with latin characters, but if the official name will be "Aleksandar Veliki", then that's how the article must be named. Till now the name from IATA/ICAO is "Skopje Airport", if these organizations accept the name to change, then we can use that name! Till then, nothing must change! --xvvx 23:29, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Apparently this talk page (and the above comment) is taken seriously, with the sign in question being correspondingly updated to show the English and French versions of the name as well :-) Apcbg 11:26, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Even if they write it in Chinese :-p the point is one... the name that will be used for the article name will be the official accepted name from IATA/ICAO (nothing has changed yet!), till then, they can expand the languages in the sign every time they read the wikipedia article :-) --xvvx 12:33, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
You think you're kidding, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did ... Next by extension, 'Thessaloniki' and 'Athens' (parts of that same guy's possessions) would seem like names that could be put to 'commercial' usage too :-) Apcbg 12:47, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

...or, more illustratively:

(like now Skopje Airport is/has being/been renamed to International Airport "Alexander the Great" <-mouseover that one)

That would be the best cultural exchange for 'commercial usage'! To quote the (apparently uneducated) MFA of Skopje Mr. Antonio Milososki "the historic military leader was an international figure and not the property of one country"<1> (despite all this and that), something that the UN mediator Mathew Nimetz himself said that "affected [the mediation attempt] and not in a positive way"...<2> NikoSilver 15:24, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Move warring

To all parties involved: The amount of move-warring observed here within the last two weeks, in relation to the ridiculous low volume and quality of debate here on talk, is disgusting. I've move-protected the article again. Please note that move-warring is even more damaging to the encyclopedia than simple revert warring, and any further occurrences (after this protection will have been lifted) will not be tolerated.

Discuss it, work it out here on talk, and then do a proper requested move when you're agreed. Until then, the page stays where it is. And, in the meantime, would those people who created the mess please clean up the double redirects? Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:03, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name

I really don't know how airpors are supposed to be named in WP, but I guess we can easily find examples. For now, we got 3 sources:

  • The label photo
  • Makfax titled: Skopje's airport to be named "Alexander of Macedonia" (Skopje /26/12/ 18:25)
  • Kathimerini saying: The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM) yesterday approved the renaming of the Skopje airport after Alexander the Great in a move Greece said will harm the country’s ties with its neighbors. (December 29, 2006)

I saw Sakis79 argue in an edit summary that a link from IATA or smthng is needed. I have no particular personal preference in the name of the article and wouldn't care if it were move-protected on any "wrong version" as long as the facts are stated. I don't find this article being the ideal place for including details of the dispute, apart from just mentioning the dispute, and the confusion with Kavala -ie. what is more-or-less already mentioned (In December 2006 the government of the Republic of Macedonia announced plans to rename the airport after Alexander the Great, sparking a renewed diplomatic spat with Greece, which considers Alexander the Great part of its own heritage (see Macedonia naming dispute). The new name is argued to create confusion with the already existing Kavala International Airport, "Megas Alexandros", which lies in the neighboring Greek region of Macedonia.)

I would appreciate if users would start writing detals about the airport itself; rather than about the name. I'd also like to know why tf I have to spend like 6 hours back and forth to go from Athens to Skopje while Greece has 50something% of the investments in the country. (0,5h drive to Athens Airport + 1h wait for flight + 1h flight to Salonika + 1.5h drive to Gevgeli + 1.5h drive to Skopje and same backwards). There used to be a flight by our Olympic Airways which was packed. Now there isn't. Does anybody with a brain to write something more than ALEXANDAR MAKEDONSKI or STRIKE ALEXANDAR MAKEDONSKI have an idea about it? NikoSilver 22:35, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Good point. All these naming debates aer typical examples quarreling over the color of the bikeshed anyway. :-) Fut.Perf. ☼ 00:37, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

To tell you the truth, I actually prefer it to be renamed! The more they expose themselves with such apparent appropriation attempts, the less they become convincing regarding the "self-identification" argument being the only reason for the name choice. (not to lose track of the bikeshed comment) :-D NikoSilver 00:54, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Niko you have a few options. I'll list them from most to least probable:
  1. Buy a private jet.
  2. Get your friends and colleagues to call Olympic and say they want to travel to Skopje.
  3. Invent the teleport.
  4. Convince your deputy to vote for a bill in the parliament which will subsidize a flight to Skopje.

  /FunkyFly.talk_  02:39, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

You got me! My message was simply "for throwing dust in the eyes" (as the Greek saying goes). I actually don't need any of the above, since it is publicly known that we Epsilonists can FLY!! NikoSilver 11:09, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] MORE RENAMING

Meanwhile, Balkan Insight has learned that the authorities are considering a broader campaign to rename sites and streets after classical heroes, whether or not this angers Greece.

http://www.birn.eu.com/en/66/10/2105/ (11th paragraph)

Philhellenism 06:52, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

The Bulgarian President, Foreign Minister and high ranking Bulgarian diplomats have recently warned the Government of the Republic of Macedonia (RoM) that the time of automatic Bulgarian support for Skopje — in particular for their Atlantic and European integration — is over. Any future support (without which RoM could join neither NATO nor the European Union) will be conditional, depending on Skopje's adherence to the normal European standards of good neighbourship behaviour; Skopje's departure from their aggressive policies towards the Bulgarian history and culture; and Skopje's progress in abiding to the 1999 bilateral Agreement stipulating in particular that the RoM Government refrains from and discourages malicious propaganda against Bulgaria. The present renaming campaign is hardly the right step towards good neighbourship policies indeed. Apcbg 10:25, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Unbelievable, it is a fact, everyone knows that the name has changed, it is allready changed my friends, and still you are being so difficult on this. It's clear to see that Wikipedia is under 100% Greek Regime, it's sad, but true. As for IATA, IATA has nothing to do with this, they only control Airlines, no airports, Skopje can rename it's airport whatever they want it to rename and IATA has nothing to say there.

Stop being so childish, lift the ban on this article and accept the fact that Skopje airport is now "Alexander the Great airport Skopje" Makedonia 11:33, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I have no problem in renaming this article on the following conditions:
  • non-conflicting sources are provided. Up to now, we have one source that says it will be renamed, and another that says it has been. Interestingly the source that claims it has been is Greek, and the one that says it will be is Macedonian Slavic. Street signs etc should not be considered definite sources IMO.
  • I've no idea about IATA, and its role. I'd like that explained and cited.
  • Creation of dab page in Alexander the Great Airport (and related pages) for Kavala International Airport and this one.
  • addition of:
    • {for|the unrelated airport of Kavala in the Greek periphery of Macedonia|Kavala International Airport} on top of this article, and
    • {for|the unrelated airport of Skopje|X name we choose for here} on top of the Kavala Airport article (no "RoM" in Greek related articles per Gdansk/Danzig precedent please).
NikoSilver 11:54, 30 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] NO GREEK REGIME HERE

Government(s) can change it to what ever they want, but when airlines land at Skopje Airport, they will be saying that.... "Skopje Airport", unless IATA has approved/recognised it.

Philhellenism 01:04, 2 February 2007 (UTC)


Just to add a small part from an article from BBC NEWS...

The name change needs to be approved by international air traffic authorities before it can be enforced.

Dispute over 'Alexander airport' (Friday, 29 December 2006)

So the name cannot be changed until we have the approval and see of course what the final accepted name will be. Then we can change the article name ;-) --xvvx 21:20, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh how bogus is this dude?
However, Macedonia's Foreign Minister Antonio Milososki said the decision was a "goodwill" gesture, "with which we wanted to pay our respects to this historic person who brings peoples and countries together. We didn't have any intention to monopolise the name," he added.
Was he even able to say that with a straight face? "Goodwill gesture" my foot. ;-p --YXY 7 February 2007