Talk:Skadi (rowing club)
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[edit] Contested move request
The following request to move a page has been added to Wikipedia:Requested moves as an uncontroversial move, but this has been contested by one or more people. Any discussion on the issue should continue here. If a full request is not lodged within five days, the request will be removed from WP:RM. —Stemonitis 22:33, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
- Algemene Rotterdamse Studenten Roeivereniging → A.R.S.R. "Skadi" — It was moved in the opposite direction without discussion and to an incorrect name for the club. The official name used in correspondence is A.R.S.R. "Skadi",[1] which coincidentally was the original name to where I ask it be returned. — Nomen NescioGnothi seauton 19:46, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
- Contested I don't necessarily know what the name for the article should be, but it shouldn't be something with a run-together acronym and quotes. If you wanted it to be named A. R. S. R. Skadi, I wouldn't care. -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 19:58, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
- In other words, since you disagree we cannot use the official designation the club itself has chosen?[2]Name and address right handside of page Nomen NescioGnothi seauton 20:05, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
- Also, the current name is Dutch for Comprehensive student rowing club, clearly no club will name itself rowing club. That is plain silly. Nomen NescioGnothi seauton 21:23, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
- Unless of course, they were a rowing club, in which case a name ending in "rowing club" would make perfect sense. 81.104.175.145 21:37, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
- That is of course why they are called: A.R.S.R. "Skadi", or Algemene Rotterdamse Studenten Roeivereniging "Skadi"; or in english Comprehensive Student Rowing Club "Skadi". Please undo this disruptive edit since you clearly fail to understand no club will call itself simply Rowing club afct the unsupported rename has just done. Nomen NescioGnothi seauton 09:41, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
- Maybe wherever you're from it's usually the case to call them something else, but here on Earth a rowing club will tend to call itself a "rowing club". Can you please explain how the name "Rotterdam Comprehensive Student Rowing Club" for a rowing club for students in Rotterdam is a silly name? 81.104.175.145 14:08, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
- Not sure what your point is. The club refers to itself as a student rowing club, hence the name Algemene Studenten (student) Roeivereniging (rowing club) "Skadi." So, what exactly is the argument against using the name the club itself uses as article title? Nomen NescioGnothi seauton 07:15, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
- Maybe wherever you're from it's usually the case to call them something else, but here on Earth a rowing club will tend to call itself a "rowing club". Can you please explain how the name "Rotterdam Comprehensive Student Rowing Club" for a rowing club for students in Rotterdam is a silly name? 81.104.175.145 14:08, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
- That is of course why they are called: A.R.S.R. "Skadi", or Algemene Rotterdamse Studenten Roeivereniging "Skadi"; or in english Comprehensive Student Rowing Club "Skadi". Please undo this disruptive edit since you clearly fail to understand no club will call itself simply Rowing club afct the unsupported rename has just done. Nomen NescioGnothi seauton 09:41, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
- Unless of course, they were a rowing club, in which case a name ending in "rowing club" would make perfect sense. 81.104.175.145 21:37, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
- Also, the current name is Dutch for Comprehensive student rowing club, clearly no club will name itself rowing club. That is plain silly. Nomen NescioGnothi seauton 21:23, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
- In other words, since you disagree we cannot use the official designation the club itself has chosen?[2]Name and address right handside of page Nomen NescioGnothi seauton 20:05, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
Awaiting return to the official name I have corrected the inherently flawed name, an uninvolved editor chose without any discussion, into one that at least uses the name "Skadi." Nomen NescioGnothi seauton 14:21, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
- Nesco, for future reference... you could have reverted the move if you hadn't 'corrected' that. Revert wars are to be avoided, but if someone is WP:BOLD and does something you find controversal without discussing it first, it's fine to revert it once and tell them to discuss it on talk. The problem is that you can move articles back over the redirects created in a move, but you can't do it if that redirect has been edited. By editing the redirect at A.R.S.R. "Skadi" you made it impossible to revert without admin assistance. Just pointing that out, anyway... I don't have an opinion on where the article should be. --Aquillion 18:53, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose moving it back. When I looked at the article just now, I found it at Skadi (rowing club) which seems like a perfectly good title, and follows conventions I have seen used elsewhere on Wikipedia. I also observed there was a redirect at A.R.S.R. "Skadi" that takes you to the article. The original mover was probably trying to avoid the unexplained single-spaced initials and the double quotes within the name. The name Skadi (rowing club) avoids all these problems. The initials "A. R. S. R." may be meaningful to members of the club, but we are trying to write a general encyclopedia. See WP:NAME for some of the style advice. EdJohnston 00:03, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
- Whether or not the original article title has some unexplained things in it is irrelevant. The question is not is the current article up to your standards but why can't we use the official name of the club? For some reason nobody is willing to answer that. Or, in other words, why is the article on the President of the US not call Bush, or The Decider, et cetera? For the same reason this article should be moverd back, George W. Bush is the official designation. Despite numerous alternatives that are equally valid we settle for the official name. Nomen NescioGnothi seauton 07:15, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
- There is a tendency for WP to use fully-spelled-out names as article titles, and to make widely-used abbreviations be redirects to the article. Our articles are designed to be helpful to people who have never heard of the abbreviation. For example EPA and USEPA are redirects to Environmental Protection Agency. The fact that the rowing club prefers to refer to itself only by the abbreviation would not be a decisive argument, in a case like this. The person who originally moved the article was probably attempting to follow this style rule. EdJohnston 17:10, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
- Your comment seems to be that Algemene Rotterdamse Studenten Roeivereniging "Skadi" is a far better name and policy does not prohibit using it. Exactly my point, and why I requested moving it there. Nomen NescioGnothi seauton 18:40, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
- There is a tendency for WP to use fully-spelled-out names as article titles, and to make widely-used abbreviations be redirects to the article. Our articles are designed to be helpful to people who have never heard of the abbreviation. For example EPA and USEPA are redirects to Environmental Protection Agency. The fact that the rowing club prefers to refer to itself only by the abbreviation would not be a decisive argument, in a case like this. The person who originally moved the article was probably attempting to follow this style rule. EdJohnston 17:10, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
- Whether or not the original article title has some unexplained things in it is irrelevant. The question is not is the current article up to your standards but why can't we use the official name of the club? For some reason nobody is willing to answer that. Or, in other words, why is the article on the President of the US not call Bush, or The Decider, et cetera? For the same reason this article should be moverd back, George W. Bush is the official designation. Despite numerous alternatives that are equally valid we settle for the official name. Nomen NescioGnothi seauton 07:15, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose moving it back. When I looked at the article just now, I found it at Skadi (rowing club) which seems like a perfectly good title, and follows conventions I have seen used elsewhere on Wikipedia. I also observed there was a redirect at A.R.S.R. "Skadi" that takes you to the article. The original mover was probably trying to avoid the unexplained single-spaced initials and the double quotes within the name. The name Skadi (rowing club) avoids all these problems. The initials "A. R. S. R." may be meaningful to members of the club, but we are trying to write a general encyclopedia. See WP:NAME for some of the style advice. EdJohnston 00:03, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
- WP:NC(CN) - use common names of things (i.e. not necessarily official names). --Stemonitis 14:59, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
- WP:NC(CN) seems null unless there are sources to indicate it's referred to as 'Skadi (rowing club)' which is unlikely, I'd say use the full name have the others as redirects One thing mentioned is how likely an external search engine is to hit on it, & Algemene Rotterdamse Studenten Roeivereniging Skadi is probably the best option for that. --Nate1481( t/c) 11:47, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
- Status of move request. Note the comment by User:Stemonitis at the head of this discussion, If a full request is not lodged within five days, the request will be removed from WP:RM. I notice that the move has disappeared from WP:RM, so I guess that implies a lack of consensus. Respond here if you believe that the situation needs any further action. EdJohnston 18:14, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
- It means I refiled the request and it was removed by User:Stemonitis . Not sure what to do next I left it. However, there is still the need for discussion, but apparently not at WP:RM. Nomen NescioGnothi seauton 09:49, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
