Talk:Sirindhorn

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Contents 1 Rumours 2 moves 3 Royal succession 4 Extremely popular princess 5 Opening Paragraph

[edit] Rumours

Rumours have no place in wikipedia entries. I have removed the reference to her being lesbian (based on Paul Handley's publication of Thai rumour mills). -Salapao Salapao 19:04, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

A rumor is when the source has no obvious access to the information provided, or when there are several steps between the immediate source and someone who might actually know. ("My pork satay girl found out from her hairdressor, who has a cousin who clean floors at the palace...") Handley sourced this information to "palace insiders." That's no different from The New York Times citing "a White House source" or "a source close the secretary of state." I think what you really mean is that it could be libel. In that case, Phra Thep should sue Handley. That she prefers women is the logical explanation of why she never got married. It is also possible that doesn't want to compete for the throne with her brother, who is said to be quite violent, or that she just never found Mr. Right. But her statement to Thai television suggests that her martial status is her own free choice. Kauffner 15:48, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] moves

Please consult Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (Thailand-related articles)#Cast votes

Arrigo please do not remove renaming tags if the voting has not been over. Also please stop moving pages unilaterally if the naming is controversial and wait for the end of the discussion. What you are doing is in clear violation of Wikipedia rules and Wikiquette, please abide and participate in discussion properly. Gryffindor 14:35, August 26, 2005 (UTC)

• per Wikipedia´s rules of naming royalty [1], this article needs to be renamed. no mention of her royal title is disrespectful. Antares911 12:05, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• Oppose. That's sycophantic. No less than can be expected from Antares. 217.140.193.123 21:23, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Readers may be interested in to know that User:Antares911 above is the former username of User:Gryffindor (also above). 217.140.193.123 20:42, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

• Oppose, keep at simple name, same as for western royals where titles are only added for disambiguation. andy 21:32, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

• Oppose. For surety, I hereby confim my opposition to this move proposal. Arrigo 23:52, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. violet/riga (t) 10:12, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

The notorious Antares911/Gryffindor had requested that Maha Chakri Sirindhorn be moved to either Princess Maha Chakri Sirindhorn of Thailand, Maha Chakri Sirindhorn, Princess of Thailand, Maha Chakri, Princess of Thailand or Princess Maha Chakri Sirindhorn. I among others oppose such moves. As can be read above, the requests received opposition and the poll went stale. Requests denied. Arrigo 12:27, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Royal succession

Some recent debate in the King Bhumibol article showed that there is quite a bit of confusion about the rules behind the royal succession. It is thus suggested that the following note be added to this article: "Princess Sirindhorn's only brother, Prince Vajiralongkorn, was given the title "Somdej Phra Boroma Orasadhiraj Chao Fah Maha Vajiralongkorn Sayam Makutrajakuman" on 28th December 1972, making him the Crown Prince and Heir Apparent to the throne. In 1977, Princess Sirindhorn was given an equivalent title, "Sayam Makutrajakumari". The constitution was later ammended to allow for a "daughter of the king" to succeed to the throne, but only in the absence of a male heir apparent. Although this effectively signalled Princess Sirindhorn as unofficially second in line to the throne., it did not give her equal status in terms of royal succession to the Prince." Patiwat 10:13, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Giving the titles only creates confusion, since they have nothing to do with succession. The 1974 to 1997 constitutions allowed for female succession, which suggests that Sirindhorn was second in line to the throne at that time. The Interim (2006) constitution doesn't say anything about succession, so legally the issue is up in air until a permanent constitution is drafted. As a practical matter, the Privy Council will come up with a name when a vacancy arises. Sometimes you read about rivalry between crown prince and Sirindhorn, but I think the order of succession is settled at this point: Vajiralongkorn is heir apparent, his son Dipangkorn is second in line, and Sirindhorn is third. Kauffner 14:10, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Extremely popular princess

The article says that she is an "extremely popular princess." I agree that she is. However, saying that without a reference could leave the door open to anyone saying it looks POV. Actually, although I agree with the statement, it does look a bit like POV. Any suggeestion on how to fix that? Anagnorisis 19:44, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

How do you get reliable "sources" about the Thai Royal Family when almost no-one in Thailand talks openly about the Royal Family and would never print anything negative about them? "I've heard it whispered on the street" is as good a source since in many cases it's the only source available. How does Wikipedia deal with this. I've heard it whispered on the street that if HM the King only could make Phra Thep his heir, he would have abdicated years ago... but you'll never find it in print. This is an important insight into HRH's relationship with Thai hearts and minds, but how can Wikipedia make it known since there is no source?

Write an article, publish it or put it up on the Web somewhere, and than that can sourced here.

The kind of rumors you refer are certainly an indication of Sirindhorn's popularity, but I don't think they are at all plausible. The king could certainly make Sirindhorn his heir if that's what he wanted to do. The army is writing a new constitution now, so it could revise the succession rule any way the king wanted. When the Crown Prince had his most recent son in 2005, the king accepted it as legitimate, unlike the Crown Prince's previous children. If Sirindhorn wanted to be queen, she would have gotten married a long time ago. Her son would be an adult by now, able to defend her if the Crown Prince tried to point his gun at her again. But she's appearently happy where she is, with no desire to play palace politics. Kauffner 15:12, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Opening Paragraph

Isn't there any better way to discuss the princess' popularity than this convolutedly safe handling seen in the opening paragraph? The fingerprints of editing debate are too obvious in the way it appears. Perhaps any mention of her popularity should be left out of the opening to take place later in the article, rather than kicking off the article with a criticism of lese majeste. At very least i'm removing the word "stifling", as it would be just as difficult to gauge whether many thai's believe this to be so as it would to realistic assess a royal's popularity. All the qualifiers come off as POV even while trying to avoid doing so. Hope we can come up with something better!

okay, any objections to the current wording? (i still feel this should come later however; perhaps it's own section) - from peter.