Talk:Sinn Sisamouth
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[edit] Help improve!
After creating this article then improving it into a comprehensive article that is ranked number 1 on Google. I still can't believe no one has edited this article to improve it... Squash 00:34, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)
[edit] List of Songs
Don't know how many people check out this article...doesn't seem to get edited a lot. Just wondering how far to go with the list of songs. I got hundreds of them (literally), this list could get HUGE.--WilliamThweatt 03:40, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
- Hi William, a good estimate of mine would be roughly 1200 more songs. Squash 11:27, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
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- Hi Squash, good to meet you. Happy New Year, by the way. 1200 is about what I was thinking also. Between my CDs, MP3s and Cassettes, I currently have about 800 including many of the duets. My question was, should we include the entire list or just the most popular/well known ones?
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- Also, about the transliteration of the Khmer into English, what's with the hostility? We're all trying to make this the best WP article it can be so let's try to keep this civil. Here are a few suggestions:
- First of all, there is no officially "proper" way to transliterate Khmer words using the English alphabet. What is important is that we are both consistent (ideally accross all of WP, but especially within an individual article) and systematic (each sound in Khmer is given an equivilent in English which is used consistently for that sound where ever it occurs). There are many systems that are currently in use by different organizations.
- The most common system in use, and arguably the most accurate, is the one that I was using which is based on the IPA combined with standard, simple American English sounds developed by Huffman and Proum to describe Khmer in linguistic articles. This system is also used by the US government in transcribing Khmer immigrants names into English letters.
- The system the previous editor used was an exact, one-for-one, transliteration based on letters not sounds. For example in their system, a Khmer word like "chan" (moon) would be written "jantr" because in Khmer it is written with the "cheurng toa" and "cheurng roa" consonants at the end to reflect that it is an borrowing from Sanskrit/Pali. However, this does not provide accurate information on how to pronounce the word because the "t" and "r" are not pronounced. (Thai has the same problem, which is why, even though this is the official Thai government policy of Romanization, it is not used in the West)
- I'm not sure what system (if any) you used. For example you transcribed the word "oun", ("darling, honey") as "aun". This seems based on nothing other than your preference. It is not based on transliteration of the Khmer letters, nor is it based transcription of the sounds involved. "Aun" pronounced in English would sound like the Khmer word "to duck down" as in "daə aun".
- I could give other examples but the point is we were actually "using our brains", as you so diplomatically put it, and applying consistent accepted standards in our transliteration. Were you? I am temtped to revert, but, as I mentioned above there was more than one system in use. I will go through and convert everything to the same system. In the meantime, go out, eat some "num ansawm" and enjoy New Year--WilliamThweatt 16:32, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
- Also, about the transliteration of the Khmer into English, what's with the hostility? We're all trying to make this the best WP article it can be so let's try to keep this civil. Here are a few suggestions:
- Thanks you William, I did not know it was you who edited this article as an anonymous user. I think we may need to reconsider the list, and change it to "Notable", since the list of Sinn Samouth's songs is huge
- The names I have provided are the ones that used popularly from song websites, they in that form as Khmers are used to that Khmer romanization.
- I have heard this system, but it surely it would not be a pain to get the list of songs as comprehensive as possible then change the spelling
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- I didn't write oun as "aun" that was the work of an anonymous user, I always write (darling, honey) as "oun" to.
- As for now I will revert my edits, and concentrate on the song list. Thank you for your time to deal this problem with me, it is much appreciated. Squash 03:45, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
- I would prefer to see all that information on an external link website. The discography is un-encyclopedic because one, it does not come from a reliable source such as a published book or scholarly journal and perhaps there never will be, and two, the names of the songs utilizes so many different ad-hoc romanization styles so the sorting order is very messed up. For instance, one of the songs starts with 'gonya' I assume this is more commonly romanized as 'kanya' and can be listed under K instead. --Dara 18:53, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] GoKhmer.net reference
The main reference for this article is from a now-defunct website called GoKhmer.net. The referenced article was retrieved via Archive.org. However, at 04:14, 25 December 2006, User:Bvsamnang (Talk | contribs) inserted the entire text of the article just before the discography section. The article itself is sourced from "CAM-NEWS (Cambodian Newspaper), "Roam-lerkpee sdach chamroeang Khmer Sin Sisamouth" Issue No. 79 p.26 &33 (2/12/96-2/25/96), Issue No. 80 p.26 &33, (2/26/96-3/10/96), Issue No. 81 p.26 &33 (3/1 1/96- 3/24/96)." — WiseKwai 07:57, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
Hi readers, Khmerster (newbie) here. i've posted on Samouth anonymously before. Look forward to read from other contributors. (16 June 2007)
[edit] Rename article?
Should this article be renamed to reflect better romanization? There is no commonly accepted romanization of his name yet in third party publications (at least to my knowledge). So this isn't like renaming an article of another more well documented Cambodian person or places, for example changing Khieu Samphan to Khiev Samphanor Phnom Penh to Phnum Penh (in accordance to some romanization tables), in these situations it would be wrong because they have long established use.
Use of the digraph th is incorrect here because that is not pronounced like the letter Greek Theta neither is it an aspirate T. The "ou" in Sisamouth can be a little ambiguous to some people. In the name Norodom Sihanouk or Oudong, it represents a "short u." In Japanese romanization, 'ou' represents a "long o". That part of his name is suppose to sound like a "short o." And is there a need for two Ns in Sinn?
If you ask me, I would like to see it changed to Sin Sisamot (using the UNGEGN romanization but leaving out the diacritics) since it is more 'neutral' if you get my drift. Romanization should be considered for all languages that use any form of the Latin script (French, German, Italian, Dutch, etc), not just for English speakers. By actually romanizing (and not a whack form of romanization), his name can be more consistently written in all those languages' Wikipedia and at the same time be close to the actual pronunciation of his name in the eyes of all those readers. --Dara 14:33, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
My 2-cents worth: with regard to reworking Samouth's name in the title - i'm a bit uneasy simply because a lot of people out there know him as Samouth etc.. rather than by another spelling. They will also find it hard when doing internet searches. i guess it pays to stick to what has in the past accepted. Anyway the man himself would have objected to see his name changed. A case in point is how some foreigners have started to use the word "Khmai" instead of "Khmer". (a) Good luck to them and (b) i find it rather patronizing when they tell us how we should spell our names. Khmerster.
