Talk:Single malt Scotch
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Single malt Scotch is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed. | ||||||||||||||||||||
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This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on May 26, 2004. | ||||||||||||||||||||
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Single malt Scotch is within the scope of WikiProject Scotland, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Scotland and Scotland-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page. | ||
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See also: Wikipedia:WikiProject Malt Whisky, a form that can be used to review tasting notes.
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[edit] older entries
Came here because of the Featured Articles nomination. A technical question presents itself: Just when does the bulk of the starch get broken down? I suppose that kilning would denature the enzyme; so all the sugar production would take place in the Malting step; is this right? Then the Mashing section says that the hot water dissolves all the sugar and starch; but starch isn't soluble in water. Does some more starch get broken down here by the enzymes, or is this just a misprint, and should it just say that the sugar is dissolved?
Nice article; after some minor copy editing, I'll vote for its inclusion. Dandrake 07:33, Mar 16, 2004 (UTC)
More tehcnicalities: is it actually phenol, C6H5OH, that is contributed by the smoke? Or is it a complex mix of phenols (various similar compounds)? I'd suspect the latter, since the flavors are so variable that more than one compound would probably be involved. Dandrake 07:41, Mar 16, 2004 (UTC)
There's nothing here about the mystique of the water used in making whisky. (Falls on granite, trickles through peat, or it's not good enough for whisky.) Has this gone out of fashion? I know that many years ago when Inverness was considering fluoridaton of the water supply, obections were raised that it might interfere with the making of whisky (mainly or entirely mere grain whisky in this case). How serious that was, I don't know, but it did appear in the papers. And the magical water was one of the popular explanations for why no one could quite duplicate Scotch whisky. Dandrake 07:55, Mar 16, 2004 (UTC)
- About the conversion from starch to sugar. If the malting process were to continue untill all the starch was converted to maltose the barley would be at full sprout, the cotyledon would be producing chlorophyl, and the resulting whisky would be very bitter. The kilning temperature is controlled so that the malt is never at a temp that would denature the enzymes needed to breakdown the starch. It takes several hours to dry the malt, up to 24 hours. Every refrence I have available to me suggests that the enzyme breaks down the starch during the mashing process, but you're right, the starch is broken down by enzymes and then disolves, not the other way around. I'll go fix that now.
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- I've made beer, and it starts out starchy and winds up sweet. The temperature of mashing is critical in the nature of the beer - the malting produces alpha and beta amylases - alpha nibbles a single glucose off the end of a starch, while beta takes bigger bites. More alpha amylase activity gives beer more fermentable sugar, but beta makes malto-dextrins for "mouth feel". How, exactly, that plays out in whisky is not obvious to me.
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- I've also lived with a distillery in town - they have a unique smell, not particularly pleasant to most people. Henry Troup 00:11, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- I think you're right, it's more than one phenol. I, as a biochemist, should have realized that such complex flavors could not come from one chemical, but I got caught up in the refrences always refering to phenol level, not phenols. I could go run an analysis on some Scotch to make sure, but why waste the Scotch? There must be literature out there somewhere in a peer reviewed journal describing such a test. Hmmm, more research, yippie. Fortunatly, that's another easy fix to make. Thanks for the input, and the copyedits. Gentgeen 08:07, 16 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- I put in a section on water, including the water source being the main consideration for placing the new Arran Distillery, which I hope covers "mystique" regarding water. As I don't fully understand it myself, (I'd use distilled or deionized water for production, so I could get consistent results, but that's why I'm a scientist, not a distiller) I must have left it out subconciously. Gentgeen 08:23, 16 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Oh I did have one question. Does mashing involve mashing (like potatoes) or is it being used like in N England where you "mash the tea", which similarly involves hot water rather than beating/squashing. fabiform | talk 15:35, 16 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- It's mashing as is done for beer production, hot water is used to get the desired compounds out of the grist, so "mash the tea" is probibly the right idea. The grist is about the same texture as cracked wheat, not creamy like mashed potatoes. Gentgeen
And it might be a good idea to take the link to the wikiproject out of the article, it leads to a template with items such as "another fake link" etc, which I don't suppose was intedted to be seen by readers. fabiform | talk 00:01, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- I don't know. By clicking that link, readers and taken to a page that asks them to become editors. They are encourgaed to add tasting notes to the various whisky pages. Because of that link I went from doing copyedits to adding pages back when I was a newbie. Gentgeen
Regarding the lack of photos - despite my being in at least four different distilleries in the last year, I seem to have neglected to take a single photo (as such thinks are surely only for the touristas). I've emailed my companions to see if they have anything decent they're willing to GFDL/PD. Also, I think I can get a decent product shot tomorrow (sun), assuming it's sunny enough. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 23:58, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- I got decent shot of Royal Brackla in the bottle today, will upload it tomorrow. Gentgeen 02:11, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Title of the article
This might sound pernickity, but shouldn't the title of this article be 'Single malt whisky'? The word "scotch" is an Americanism - I know it's widely understood, but the as the originators of the drink, the Scottish themselves, would not call it "scotch", shouldn't the Wikipedia follow their usage? If people agree, I'd be happy to rename the page and make the appropriate choices in all the links.Katherine Shaw 15:31, Aug 24, 2004 (UTC)
- Scotch Whisky is correct. Plenty of Scots call it Scotch. See http://www.scotch-whisky.org.uk/ . If you call a Scotman "Scotch" though, then you're asking for trouble. You can get single malt Irish Whiskey (note the 'e') and I think an article about that would be better of being called Single malt Irish whiskey than Single malt Irish whiskey, so maybe there is an argument to move the page to Single malt Scotch Whisky, but I don't think it's necessary. Mintguy (T)
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- I've just come across this article. I too was surprised to see it under "Single malt Scotch". I always refer to it as "Single malt whisky", and would never ask for it as a scotch. (Also, the S in scotch should not be capitalised anyway, jguk 21:11, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
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- Given that single malt whisky clearly states that there are other single malts, obviously the move is a bad idea. Even if I was surprised to find that there are other single malts - WP is there to educate people, not pander to their prejudices and uninformedness. -- AlexR 23:12, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
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- Well, it shouldn't stay at a name which is hardly, if ever, used. What about "Scottish single malt whisky" (though really, I'd prefer just merging the bits on single malt whiskey into an article located at single malt whisky, jguk 23:19, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
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- There are many single malt whiskeys that are not scotch, so i believe the two articles need to be seperate, and at their current names. The ever-popular Google test agrees—there are 139,000 hits for "single malt scotch", and only 94,700 for "single malt whisky" and "single malt whiskey" combined.
Foobaz·o<23:32, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Perhaps it makes sense to move some of the general material about production, etc., to fill out the article on Single malt whisky. Single malt Scotch could remain to highlight the unique Scottish whisky characteristics, traditions, and individual distilleries. —Michael Z. 2005-03-20 23:44 Z
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- I'm not really a fan of cutting up a featured article into several articles, but if it can be done well, maintaining the quality of this article, I'd be ok with that. Gentgeen 07:04, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
All scotch is whiskey but not all whiskey is scotch. The article is heavily influened on scotch and I think it should remain that way. If anything, move the non-scotch specifics to another article (single malt whiskey perhaps). Cburnett 07:53, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- What are you on about, no scotch is whiskey! jguk 21:16, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- No, what are you going on about? All scotch is whiskey. Scotch *IS* whiskey made in Scotland. The converse is not true; only some whiskey is made in Scotland so not all whiskey is scotch. Perhaps you've been drinking too much scotch today. Cburnett 22:36, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Oppose the requested move for the same reason as Cburnett. Single Malt Scotch and Single Malt Whiskey are two separate things (one a specific, one a category)...any drunk can tell you that...and I'm a drunk. —ExplorerCDT 14:33, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
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- Therein lies the rub, I'm a connoisseur, jguk 06:46, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Oppose Philip Baird Shearer 17:08, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved. Not really a move candidate at the moment - perhaps a vote should be made as to whether it should be merged into single malt whisky (which I think it should). violet/riga (t) 22:09, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Support The coverage of whisky, and particularly single malt whisky is too Balkanised at the moment. There are literally hundreds of single malts available from various parts Europe, Japan and North America which are not Scotch but within the Scotch tradition. A number of these malts have beaten the big Scotch single malts at major tastings. And yet the most detailed description of single malt on Wikipedia is exclusively under "Scottish single malt". Its like describing all of football under the English football heading because they invented it. I don`t know what Wikipedia does in these cases. In the meantime, as suggested above, I have expanded the stub that was the general single malt page mostly using the generalizable information from this one (which is most of it). Personally, I think such duplication is undesirable. There is no need to Balkanise an international drink category in this way. It would be better to move the general information into the single malt section, and either have a short "Scottish single malt page" on the specific scotch single malt stuff or consolidate it in the main Scotch article. This would make things clearer and less misleading for readers.Buyo 14:02, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
I would like to point out that the term Scotch is zealously guarded by the malt whisky producers of Scotland themselves. (And incidentally, also the term glen, judging by their recent lawsuit against Glenora distillery of Nova Scotia.) —Michael Z. 2005-03-27 04:17 Z
From the article:
- "When complete, the liquid has an alcohol content of 5 to 7 per cent by volume, and is now known as either wash or weak beer"
5-7% sounds like bloody strong beer to me. Is "weak beer" a technical term, and if so perhaps the wording can be explained? WikianJim 30 June 2005 17:44 (UTC)
[edit] Robert Stein link
The link to Robert Stein in "History" seems to go to a totally different character. Also Laphroiag is an incorrect spelling in the picture caption where the casks are shown.
[edit] History Update
Diageo (Johnnie Walker, Guinness, Smirnoff) has owned UD and others for at least a few years, bringing something over half the distilaries now under their control.
It's also interesting to note that new ownership of a distillery doesn't always include product.
Examples: What is now Diageo once owned, mothballed and retired Bladnoch. It was then purchased, and reopened with a provision of limited production - but as that was recent, nearly anything bottled is still from Diageo warehouses. Ardbeg (on Islay) which was mothballed by what is now Diageo, then purchased by Glenmorangie, revamped and was put back into production - but up until they started selling the Very Young Ardbeg (aged 4-5yrs) they had to buy stock from Diageo for sales. In both these cases the distilleries have changed enough to suggest a potential change in the future taste.
[edit] Failed GA
Inadequate references. An article like this would benefit from inline citations. Four generic sources in the references is far too little. Good work otherwise. savidan(talk) (e@) 04:11, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] External Links
[edit] Map
Hi All, I give up. I have removed maps made by "Brian Gotts" numerous times. He keeps putting them back. They are wrong. 1. The islands is not a region. 2. His Speyside isn't even in the right place 3. He originally didn't even have Islay on the map 4. This is an article on "Scotch" and he shows Irish Whiskeys I will suggest that someone replace his map with a correct one form any of a dozen sources - including the SWA.
No wonder these entries are a shambles. --ScotchGuy 05:24, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
- Someone has been adding the text "Click for an accurate map of Whisky producing regions in Scotland" and an external link alongside the map. This is surely unacceptable. If the map can be agreed to be wrong, let's fix it. I observe that the map quotes three sources. Are you saying all three sources are wrong, or that the map inaccurately reflects the sources (I asked this in another talk page a month ago)? Notinasnaid 18:19, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
- Parallel discussion: Talk:Scotch whisky#Map Notinasnaid 21:11, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Cobweb urban legend
I was interested to see this, as breweries often encourage cobwebs to catch malt flies. Since part of a distillery's function is to act as a brewery it would make sense they'd do the same, so a reference for this particular UL might be interesting. - Ian Malone
[edit] Change of Name
Why was the change allowed. How was it done. SINGLE MALT SCOTCH is a protected term...and wahat people will serach for. NOT Scottish Single Malt. Can someone change this back?
- By using the page history, I can see that a logged in user with a small number of edits chose to move the article back in March. Moving pages to another title is a simple task for any user who is logged in, and is one reason you might choose to create an account. However, as the exact same move was discussed earlier on this talk page, and no consensus was reached, the move should not have been completed without another discussion. I'll go ahead and move it back. Gentgeen 22:15, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Maintaining the link with the wider single malt world
I feel it is important for any changes to this article, and there have been a few recently that have harmed here, to maintain a link to the wider world of single malts, which now encompass many other countries than just Scotland. Please don't obscure this knowledge for readers. The aim here is to inform and I believe it is basic knowledge for anybody reading this page in any of its forms to know that Single malt Scotch is a type of single malt whisky. I have tried to do that in as unobtrusive a way as possible.Buyo 11:38, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] On the cask
Anybody know just how big the ones used are? Mention it? Trekphiler 04:40, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Definition and Purpose of Malting and Mashing
The article seems to suggest that malting converts starches to sugars, when in reality it does no such thing. The true purpose of malting is to develop the enzymes (most notably α and β amylase) that will break the long starch chains down into the smaller glucose, maltose and maltriose bits during the mashing process. Basically, the article attributes many of the elements of the mashing phase to the malting phase. I am not a regular editor, but as someone quite familiar with the process, I thought I should bring this to the attention of the community. Look to wikipedia's malt page for sources, etc. 71.208.112.157 (talk) 06:19, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
