Talk:Singing bowl

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Musical Instruments, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Musical Instruments articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
Start This article has been rated as Start-class on the quality scale.
Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.
This article is part of WikiProject Percussion, a group of Wikipedians interested in systematically organizing all the information in Wikipedia related to percussion. This project's focus is to centralize the efforts of many Wikipedians to make Wikipedia the best free resource when it comes to information about the subject.
If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.


 WikiProject Religion
Religion Portal
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Wikipedia's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.
Start This article has been rated as Start on the Project's quality scale.
(If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)
This article has been marked as needing immediate attention.
WikiProject Buddhism This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Buddhism, an attempt to promote better coordination, content distribution, and cross-referencing between pages dealing with Buddhism. Please participate by editing the article Singing bowl, or visit the project page for more details on the projects.
Start This article has been rated as start-class on the quality scale.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.

Article Grading:
The article has been rated for quality and/or importance but has no comments yet. If appropriate, please review the article and then leave comments here to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article and what work it will need.

Contents

[edit] Pseudo-science

I was going to delete this:

"Crystal singing bowls Crystal singing bowls are one of the most powerful, beautiful and easy to utilize healing tools available today. These bowls are specially made for it's healing effect. They are made from 99% silica sand (quartz) and are literally spun into being in a centrifugal mould which is heated to 4000 degrees and an electric arc in the centre fuses the individual grains into one whole. This is why the inside of the bowls is smooth and the outside granular and sparkly like tiny quartz grains. When they come out of the mould they are then tuned. This is done through a process similar to sanding down the bowl on the outside or by trimming the bowls height until the required note is found. The outside rim of the bowl is then played by pulling a suede mallet or a beater with a large rubber ball on the end around it which causes a friction and the sound is then produced. Think of how a sound is produced when a wine glass is rimmed with a wet finger. They may also be lightly taped to create a more bell like ‘dong’.

Crystal singing bowls were originally a by product from the computer industry, quartz can be heated to high temperatures so quartz ‘crucibles’ were use to grow computer chips and other components within them. Crystal Singing bowls first came into being as healing tools in 1990. Tibetan ‘7’ metal bowls which work in a similar way have been in use for centuries. More recently the quartz bowls have been infused with other gemstones such as Ruby and Rose Quartz as well as precious metals such as gold and silver. Crystal bowls are so powerful as they combine several healing modalities; sound healing, crystal healing and healing through light and colour. These properties can be further enhanced by the power of focused intention. Sound healing works on the principle that everything in our universe is energy which has a vibration. Everything in existence within the universe is in a vibrational state. The frequency at which we normally vibrate is called resonance. Certain sounds therefore will resonate with different organs and parts of the body. Sound has been scientifically proven to have an effect on our autonomic, immune & endocrine systems as well as the neuropeptide transmitters in our brain. Sound healing practitioners’ look at their clients from this perspective and seek to balance their clients ‘dis-ease’ through correction of vibrational imbalances in their energetic system i.e. their aura or electromagnetic blueprint. When an organ in the body is not functioning at its optimum its sound pattern will be off, yet by re introducing the correct sound pattern this will help it to heal and return to health through the law of resonance. This law states that when one energetic system encounters another, similar system, their vibrations must come into a state of resonance or harmonic vibration. It has also been documented how sound can effect matter. 80% of our bodies are water and the effect that sound has on water has been photographically demonstrated in Dr Masaru Emoto’s book `The Hidden Messages in Water’. Different sounds produced different types of geometric shapes within frozen water. Playing ‘Mozart’ produced beautiful symmetrical snowflake like crystals whilst discordant sound had no clear structure. You can imagine then the power of sound on the Water within our bodies! Dr Hans Jenny demonstrated how matter responds to sound using Cymatics. Cymatics is the use of ‘Pure Tone’ or ‘sine waves’ within the audible spectrum to produce physical patterns on a medium such as liquid or sand. A good example of this is how the ‘Shri Yantra’ pattern is produced by the ‘Aum’ sound. Crystal bowls are unique in sound healing as they produce ‘pure tones’ when played. When we produce a sound with our voices or other instruments the note waivers and varies. With crystal singing bowls the note does not waiver. This produces a wave of energy known as a ‘sine’ wave that spreads out for a kilometre from the bowl in all directions and lasts for several minutes. Sine waves appear in nature in ocean waves and light waves. At higher frequencies sound converts into colour which is within the spectrum of light. Sine waves have the same energetic pattern that occurs in our brain in alpha state. In the alpha brain wave state the brainwaves run at about 8 to 12 cycles per seconds or hertz. This is a calm meditative state where the person is still alert and the is more receptive to learning, focusing and suggestion.

Crystal healing also works with vibration. Scientifically Quartz crystals have been shown to have high piezoelectric & pyroelectric properties. The piezoelectric effect is produced when a quartz crystal is compressed, which causes it to release a voltage of electricity and sometimes light. With Crystal bowls this compression of the crystalline structure occurs when the bowl is played. Pyroelectricy is caused by variation in temperature of the crystal and causes the energy within the crystal to expand when heated and contract upon cooling. This cooling would then store the energy within the crystalline structure. In my experience the crystal bowl ‘warms up’ when played. Even very small changes in temperature have been shown to produce this pyroelectric effect. Quartz crystals have the ability to take in energy, store it, redirect it and amplify it. Quartz absorbs white light and therefore has every colour frequency within it. Our bodies also contain silica and some of our glands are said to oscillate like crystals. Glands like the pineal gland are even crystalline in shape and structure as are cells right down to the molecular level. So quartz crystals will resonate with these structures. The bowls that have other gemstones fused with them will also have the metaphysical properties of that stone. Colour plays a part in this as does the individual mineral content of the stone. For example the gemstone turquoise is good for helping with joint pain and problems such as arthritis. Turquoise is a mineral rich in copper; copper bracelets have been used for centuries to bring sufferers relief from these ailments, so the stone will thus have a similar effect.

Crystal bowls work as a synergy between all of the above mentioned modalities. As quartz has the ability to take in energy and vibration and as our thoughts are waves of energy or vibration the bowls will absorb these ‘thought vibrations’ and amplify them. Carlos Castaneda said there's an immeasurable, indescribable force which shamans called "intent" and absolutely everything that exists in the entire cosmos is connected to it. When we focus our thoughts with laser like clarity and precision we are connecting to the vibration of that which we seek to manifest. Quartz bowls will hone our thoughts and make them clearer. Through the law of attraction these clear thoughts then magnetize those things to us. The film ‘The Secret’ clearly documents how and why positive, clear thought brings those things that we focus on into being. It also demonstrates how we create our reality by our thoughts and the vibration that they and we as individuals hold. Positive thought has been shown to produce positive changes in out physiology. Therefore the more we ‘intend’ and believe the crystal singing bowls will effect those and others the more they will."

Because it is not fact and doesn't belong on Wikipedia. I'm only posting it here because I see now that there is some debate about the worthiness of this information. If anyone sees anything in here that belongs in the article, feel free to put it back in. Hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes here, I just don't see anything of value in the above text. Conical Johnson (talk) 02:23, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Difficulty

I've removed, "It is reportedly very difficult to master; if done incorrectly the bowl will produce no sound". This gives the impression that producing the sound is a difficult thing. This is not so, or at least, not for all bowls: I lived with a guy who had one last year, and it was very easy for me and other housemates to get it to produce the sound. — Matt Crypto 08:10, 18 February 2006 (UTC)


If it's a high quality bowl, you're right - they sing very easily.


[edit] Vandalism

I think i was just accused of vandalism on 1 December 2006! This is b9 hummingbird hovering here. I do NOT vandalise. I am not on my pc atm...but my edits are reputable and honourable. Respectfully.

Boris Allen (user): don't undo my edits (eg Singing bowl and Singing bowls without due investigation. If you have a challenge please add it to [[1]] so we may resolve. Respectfully Beauford

[edit] Multiphonic trance induction

I would very much like this paragraph to be investigated, sourced and referenced and included! I do not have my notes currently but I will in the not too distant future. :-D

Neuroanthropology and cognitive neuroscience are conducting research into the trance induction of altered states of consciousness (possibly engendering higher consciousness} resulting from neuron firing entrainment with these polyharmonics and multiphonics. Related research has been conducted into neural entraining with percussive polyrhythms. The timbre of traditional singing bowls and their polyrhythms and multiphonics are considered meditative and calminative and the harmony inducing effects of this potentially consciousness alterning tool are being explored by scientists, medical professionals and therapists.

Cool, please do, but don't forget Wikipedia:Reliable sources and WP:NPOV -- I'm pretty sure that this stuff is not mainstream. — Matt Crypto 14:55, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

NB: "pretty sure"... ;~P *heheheheheh*

"Understatement is a staple of British humor." — Matt Crypto 15:00, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References

[edit] trance induction, etc.

Singing bowls are bells and wonderful instruments for personal wellbeing. There is no evidence of any traditional use in trance induction. Today, the vast majority use singing bowls for meditation and the peaceful feeling they help foster. It is a tiny minority that will ever be interested in trance induction, altered states, etc. Drums and eloctronic music are much more suitable for trance than singing bowls. Let's not scare people away from these sublime and gentle instruments by getting into the heavy shamonic stuff here on Wikipedia!

[edit] Singing bowl differences of perception and opinion

Singing bowls come from a shamanic tradition! The Himalayan tradition is fundamentally animistic and shamanic! Give this a read http://www.thameshudson.co.uk/books/Shamanism_and_Tantra_in_the_Himalayas/9780500511084.mxs/34/0/ (accessed: 3 December 2006).

There is a fundamental misunderstanding here...meditative states are a form of trance... sleeping is also a form of trance. Even conscious awareness in Beta is a trance. Trance involves filtering of information and brain functioning. It is a matter of functionality and efficiency. There is published evidence. Have you looked? Do u know of the Oracle in the Himalayan tradition? Are you a Buddhist practitioner? Do you regularly sound a singing bowl? I am a Bonpo Dzogchenpa in a traditional lineage. I employ singing bowls amongst other shamanic technologies. Throat singing induce similar brain states or trance states. In the Japanese tradition the Shakahatchi is used similarly for trance induction and meditation. Your understanding is cursory. I would like this issue to be put forward for a peer review. Why are trances 'scary'? Your ill informed and irrational fear born of ignorance is what is terrifying. I take offence at your misinformed value judgement of me and referring to me as "insane". I am also disappointed that you are Wiki-kin. Inform yourself. Conduct a current literature review of publications and peer review literature before making rash and unfounded determinations. Your understanding of "trance" is limited and your assertions false. Read the literature. I appreciate your views on the trance induction and I will ensure in the future that when i reintroduce the information about trance induction that it is referenced immediately. Your ignorance on traditional fountain bowls shows how cursory your understanding of the subject matter is. B9 hummingbird hovering 06:22, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Singing bowl as vehicle for multiphonic trance induction

Convergent disciplies of neuroanthropology, ethnomusicology, electroencephalography, neurotheology and cognitive neuroscience are conducting research into the trance induction of altered states of consciousness (possibly engendering higher consciousness} resulting from neuron firing entrainment with these polyharmonics and multiphonics. Related research has been conducted into neural entraining from percussive polyrhythms. The timbre of traditional singing bowls and their polyrhythms and multiphonics are considered meditative and calminative and the harmony inducing effects of this potentially consciousness alterning tool are being explored by scientists, medical professionals and therapists.

[edit] Information for later inclusion in singing bowl trance induction section

<removed -- sorry, we can't duplicate copyright material without permission, even on talk pages. — Matt Crypto 21:09, 10 December 2006 (UTC)> Source: http://www.soul-guidance.com/sbbook/sb06.htm (accessed: 3 December 2006) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by B9 hummingbird hovering (talk • contribs) 07:47, 3 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Structure of article

It is important to have separate sections for new singing bowls and traditional ones. Their fabrication is different which also results in significant resonance differences. Fountain bowls as a subset of traditional bowls are a documented fact. This is not conjecture and is documented in the literature I have cited. Whomever keeps on reverting the changes I have implemented I invite discussion and dialogue on differences to mutually resolve issues. I have not as yet reinstated a section about trance induction but I will gather further information. I have seen it in the past in one of the Journal of Consciousness(?) articles in the The University of Melbourne Baillieu Library and comparable information in The State Library of Victoria. I appreciate that the Brain Wave and Singing Bowl article that I pasted above is not well referenced nor well written but that does not negate that there is a body of reputable research published in peer review literature. Please make edits to this new structure of the article but do not merge traditional bowls with new bowls nor delete the sentences on fountain bowls (this should be a subsection of traditional bowls in the future), nor the references. What is the justification for deleting references? B9 hummingbird hovering 00:07, 5 December 2006 (UTC)


[edit] B9 Hummingbird - stop the nonsense!

Hey B9Hummingbird - please stop posting all of this weird esoteric information. Most people don't think of singing bowls in those terms and you are forcing your fringe, esoteric, conjectural and, in my opinion, misguided beliefs on this encyclopedia project. Most people think of singing bowls as nice sounding bells - humble instruments for meditation - not shamanic tools for trance induction. By the way - there is absolutely no real evidence that singing bowls were historically used for such purposes. There is a fringe community that uses them in the way you describe. Most people don't think of them like that at all. If you want to voice your esoteric and highly theoretical ideas, start your own website! This page is to explain simply what a singing bowl is - it's a place to introduce novices to the reality that they exist and to tell them simply what they are. Your ramblings will scare most people away, so please stop! This is not the place for you to mouth off about trance states. Give us all a break!

[edit] Retort

Whomever you are, you have another agenda. The trance item was three lines if that. But you reverted, deleting reputable and well researched and referenced resources as well as a format that clearly distinguishes between traditional singing bowls and new singing bowls. Inclusion, rather than exclusion is the key. This is not esoteric. That is factual and referenced in the edit that you revert without acknowledgement. You have also deleted conversation from here: the justification being? To promote ignorance. There is a lot of reputable research that has been published and there is quite a well referenced body of related articles on Wikipedia. Have you read meditation? I invite you to dialogue to resolve differences on the version which I have reinstated. Work with that. Lets dialogue to include information in ways that are mutually acceptable rather than delete differences. Differences in research and opinion should be included in the article. The singing bowl or cup gong is evident in many cultures. Maybe a section on cultural usage would also be appropriate. In Vajrayana and Bon trance is endemic and institutionalised. In current research 'trance' is the key term and auspice for which, meditation, and other altered states of consciousness are included. I repeat inclusion not exclusion is key. If you revert it is clear you have another agenda which is not reputable. How about logging in for transparency? B9 hummingbird hovering

[edit] innappropriate content

Hummingbird - your content is innapropriate for this entry. If you wish to pass on your esoteric ideas, you should start your own website.

This post is for a simple definition of a singing bowl - it is the place to introduce people who want to learn the basic facts. This is an encyclopedia entry - not your personal soapbox.

You write paragraph after paragraph of highly dubious "facts." The books you site are conjectural and your ideas do not represent any reasonable consensus. If you want to spread these ideas, find a more appropriate forum or create a separate entry for "singing bowl trance" or whatever.

[edit] Retort to innappropriate content

Hummingbird - have you been to Nepal? Have you been to Tibet? All of your statements are regurgitated nonsense. I found no less than 15 completely false statements in your post. In case you don't know, the books about singing bowls are full of holes and very innacurate information. These are not reputable sources. Your "knowledge" is a collection of pseudo-mystical ideas that have little relation to reality. You have read some books and think you know the cultures. Well, I've been there many times and have spent years learning about the reality. I'm telling you that what you have written is very innacurate, conjectural, biased and has a distinctly western new-age bent. You are buying into western ideas about Asian culture. It's not factual - just a lot of theoretical mumbo jumbo. Until you write something factual, I will continue to replace your content.

[edit] Protection

I have temporarily protected this page to stop the edit war which has been going on for the last, um, month or so. Please discuss the issues here. Please respect the civility and no personal attacks policies; focus on arguments, not attacking the other person. Further, I would ask that people sign their comments on this page using four tildes: <tt>~~~~</tt>. — Matt Crypto 21:09, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] thank you for protecting 'singing bowl'

Thank you for protecting this post. The version that you chose to protect is the long standing text that was composed by leading experts on the subject and revised for several months before B9 Hummingbird began his assault on rationality. This individual has chosen to replace a straightforward and factual description about the object with his own highly subjective and conjectural theoretical ideas about the use of the object. I maintain that the usefullness of this post is to introduce people to the object with simple and factual statements, ie "a singing bowl is a type of bell" rather than B9's more controvertial approach of making claims like "a singing bowl is a tool for trance induction." Well, I've been working with singing bowls for years and I don't see them as a tool for trance or any other mystical mumbo jumbo. Let's keep it clear and simple. Let's inform people without scaring them away with high-brow new-age theory. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.2.161.89 (talk) 23:39, 10 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Singing bowl protection

I thank you for locking 'singing bowl' and acknowledge the page locked is not an endorsement of the version therein. Something needed to happen to progress this stonewall. What does this undisclosed editor think the feeling of wellbeing they experience when resonating the singing bowl is? What is the mechanism that initiates this state? Answers to these questions do have a place within this article. It is a form of meditative trance. Regardless, I have cited references and requested dialogue with this editor. The other editor has not endeavoured to enter into dialogue and has provided no references to support their assertions and consistency refuses to create a login for probity. The other editor also resorts to offensive assertions and mud-slinging in an effort to slander me and the content which is disrespectful and inappropriate. They are railroading and I assert that they are endeavouring to commercially profit from perpetuating ignorance. I would assert that a regular user of singing bowls would be more harmonious and inclusive in their relationships and would appreciate the value of difference and the importance of different voices in scholarship. At minimum, I would like a clear distinction between 'new singing bowls' and 'traditional' ones and the inclusion of the sentence on fountain bowls. The references cited should be included as they are reputable and no others have as yet been entered. Let the other editor provide additional references that support their claims or counter what has been stated. This difference adds to the interest of the article and is demonstrably inclusive of different perspectives which is true to the voice of neutrality that is of the guiding ethos of Wikipedia. The editor should be encouraged to create an account so true dialogue can be entertained. I have clearly stated that I am willing to work together to find a mutually agreeable resolution. May I ask how this situation is now to be progressed? B9 hummingbird hovering 02:51, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] what do you think about this powerb?

en-esed phonetics and word by word translation:

"dzban woden nosiw pooki uho penkwo" 
"vessel water cary until ear brake-down"

its usualy used in pl old tales. it mean "the pitcher hold up waters until the handle (ear shaped) was 'out of order'" ~ "until the time things was ok and afer not" is there any simmilar poverb or words usage ? Nasz 00:47, 15 February 2007 (UTC) the word dzban is simmilar to dzvon and the b<>v, o<>a are wel known sound change. Do the Singing bowl have any sense with connection with water eg to calibrate sound ?

[edit] Sharp division between old and new bowls

I'm reading this article for the first time, and learning about singing bowls for the first time, but my impression is that the article distinguishes perhaps a little too sharply between new and antique bowls, as if it were only antique bowls which produced warm harmonic overtones, and that new bowls were devoid of this quality. I want to say, "surely there is a difference between higher and lower quality new bowls" in which case, I would hope to hear more about what goes into a higher quality new bowl and how I might distinguish between the two. —Antireconciler ◊ talk 17:06, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

So would I, but u think a reputable source is available?
B9 hummingbird hovering (talk • contribs) 15:07, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ad

This article currently sounds like an advertisement for antique bowls. There's no reason high-quality modern bowls would be musically inferior.

the fabrication method and usage of a suite of metals in alloy result in a sound quality that modern singing bowls do not have. It isn't just the antique factor it is their fabrication.

B9 hummingbird hovering (talk • contribs) 15:05, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Overtones only produceed by antique instruments??

It is my understanding that any bell with sufficient elasticity will produce a number of modes of standing vibration, all of which may occur simultaneously in varying amplitudes. I would like to see a definitive citation that refutes the claim that modern cast bowl are incapable of thus vibrating in multiple modes simultaneously. Certainly suspended bells that have been cast are capable of this multi-modal vibration (cf. http://www.ausbell.com/Polytone/polytone.html ). While I do not dispute that careful craftsmanship in the hammering process can have a profound effect on the vibrational modes that will occur, I am just not convinced that it was lost to the ancients. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.123.47.32 (talk) 19:34, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Antiques Overtones, and References

The Feinstein article cited in the references is clearly the work of a vendor who has no grasp of the physics of bells. While it is conceivable that a bell may have damping features applied to it's design that will allow only one mode of vibration, normally this is not the case as it requires highly specialized construction. Thus, assuming that the metal out of which the bell is made is sufficiently elastic, it will vibrate in several modes. The alloy components may shape the elasticity properties of a given bell, but they are not in and of themselves responsible for specific overtones. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.123.47.32 (talk) 20:08, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Antiques Overtones, and References

The Feinstein article cited in the references is clearly the work of a vendor who has no grasp of the physics of bells. While it is conceivable that a bell may have damping features applied to it's design that will allow only one mode of vibration, normally this is not the case as it requires highly specialized construction. Thus, assuming that the metal out of which the bell is made is sufficiently elastic, it will vibrate in several modes. The alloy components may shape the elasticity properties of a given bell, but they are not in and of themselves responsible for specific overtones. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.123.47.32 (talk) 20:10, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Use in the Himalayas

I have always doubted whether there ever were singing bowls in the Himalayan regions. I think the excuse that the texts have yet to be discovered by Westerners is a bit of an exaggeration, seeing as we have so many "secret" texts out in the open, having been translated and published that if there were to be any such text on singing bowls, it would have been wide spread by now. I have never seen the use of a singing bowl in any Tibetan Buddhist center, rather, what I have seen is the reverse, that these instruments are used because they are provided, simply to mark the begining and ending of meditation sessions. It is quite clear to me that claims of these bowls in images are rather a reference to the begging bowls which are part of a monk's possesions. Jmlee369 (talk) 08:50, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Crystal singing bowls chapter

There are many interesting ideas in this one but no references cited! There are also many parts written in first person form. I might not disagree with things said in this chapter but this is no way of writing an encyclopedia. Ahabvihrea (talk) 21:22, 2 May 2008 (UTC)