Talk:Sinclair ZX81

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[edit] A few thoughts...

As a former ZX81 owner, I think this is a pretty good article overall, but a couple of things did come to mind:

  • I'm wary of appearing insular with this one, but there does seem to be a bit of an American slant in places, which seems odd as the ZX81 was primarily a British machine. Firstly, I think it would be much better if the main photo was of an actual ZX81 rather than a TS1000 (though the latter could certainly be retained to illustrate this variant), since although the outward differences are small they are there (brand name, "DELETE" key instead of the ZX81's "RUBOUT"). Secondly several peripheral prices are given in USD only, also odd for an article about a British machine.
  • You're right! A real ZX81 image is quite better, and I just happened to find one on Commons for once. I think the Timex image is better fit in the actuall Timex Sinclair 1000 article, so Im going to fix that soon. --AndersL 19:32, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
  • There's a bit of confusion about RAM packs. Quite early in the article there's a reference to a Memopak (made by Memotech), yet there's no attempt to explain what a Memopak is, which might lead readers to assume that it was a brand name for the RAM pack pictured (Sinclair's own effort), which is in fact of a completely different appearance. (I always found Memopaks to be less "wobbly" than Sinclair ones in any case.) Finally, a few other companies - DK'tronics was one, IIRC - sold RAM packs too.

I also wonder whether at least one of the authors has been reading The Explorers Guide to the ZX81, since quite a number of the things mentioned here are also mentioned there! :) Loganberry (Talk) 15:06, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

The ZX81 was marketed in the U.S. Why do you say it is a "British machine"? Mirror Vax 23:04, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
For exactly the same reason I consider the VIC-20, which was widely marketed in the UK, to be an American machine. After all, you can buy Jaguars in America, and the company is owned by Ford, but that doesn't stop a Jaguar being a British car. Besides, I don't have a problem with US prices being quoted for peripherals - but since this is an international encyclopedia, not a US one, I do have a problem with only US prices being quoted, and I was hoping someone would know the sterling prices and include them in this article. Loganberry (Talk) 15:52, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
The machine was designed in Britain by a British company started by a particularly famous British entrepreneur. I think that makes it pretty British :-) Richard W.M. Jones 19:21, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] A call to ZX81 tape owners

Does anybody have a tape cover of the 3D Monster Maze game, preferrably the original (J.K.Greye Software as opposed to the New Generation Software republishing)? It would look great for the infobox there. You're welcome to improve the article in any other way you can think of, too. TIA, BACbKA 22:08, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

P.S. Just got a helping hand from the c.s.sinclair group, will upload the scan myself now. BACbKA 22:37, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Images at Sinclair ZX81

I have followed the 16KB RAM expansion pack image link, and it looks like the file suffered as follows:

  1. somebody posted it as a public-domain work to the English wikipedia
  2. subsequently it was moved over to commons
  3. thereafter the original en: upload was removed (since it was not a GFDL image, noone cared about the history)
  4. then the PD tag became obsolete, and an explicit reference to whoever uploaded it originally and why it had been public domain back then (own photo? another PD source?) is needed by the commons

Bottom line: this fine image is being threatened by the local copyright police any moment now :-) will the original uploader please step forward ASAP? Thanks, --BACbKA 12:01, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

  • I have updated the copyright - I thought I'd been through all my images, obviously missed this one because someone moved it. -- Jbattersby 12:57, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Thank you very much! --BACbKA 14:31, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge proposal

I have proposed a merge of Timex Sinclair 1000 into this article because IMHO they are fundamentally the same machine; the Timex model has more RAM, a different modulator, more shielding and some minor cosmetic differences, but for all that they are essentially the same.

It's not that the TS1000 is not important enough to warrant its own article; rather that I feel that the two machines would benefit from being placed in context instead of being artificially separated. Fourohfour 12:49, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Sounds very sensible to me. Cheers --Pak21 13:05, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

What about TS1500? --BACbKA 18:10, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Merge that in as well :-) Cheers --Pak21 18:47, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

All right, since both the TS articles cited above are stubs essentially (yes, I know the TS1000 isn't marked as such), I agree with the merge proposal. If the relevant sections in here grow too much, it'll be always possible to split them off again. --BACbKA 22:53, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Kialari 15:08, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I think that TS1000 should remain a seperate article. In the US, the TS1000 was the one that was famous and widely sold, not the ZX81. If people want to find out about the ZX81 and the differences, they can always click on the link to it. Vivaldi 06:40, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm undecided about this. Clearly the TS1000 is a variant of the ZX81 rather than vice versa, so if there is a merged article it should go here - with, of course, a redirect from Timex Sinclair 1000. Having said that, the Dragon 32/64 is very similar to the Tandy Color Computer, yet has a full article of its own. And Pentagon (computer) has a separate stub article, despite being a Spectrum clone.

I think that if TS1000 is merged into ZX81, for consistency's sake the Pentagon (and other clones) should be merged into ZX Spectrum... but the Spectrum article is 30K long already, which is a good argument for keeping the clones on separate pages. And if we do that, then consistency would demand that TS1000 is not merged with ZX81! Loganberry (Talk) 13:13, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I think the difference there is that the Pentagon article could say a lot more about the machine than it already does, whereas there's not really anything else that can be added to the TS1000 article than is already there. Cheers --Pak21 13:29, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
The Dragon 32 was not entirely compatible with the Tandy, although there were very major similarities. It was also marketed by an entirely separate company with its own history.
By contrast, the differences between the ZX81 and TS1000 were secondary or peripheral; shielding, more memory, NTSC output. They by a company closely involved with the ZX81 already and had Sinclair's name on them.
Timex Sinclair warrants its own article, but this computer? In all honesty, I agree that there is little more to say that would not belong in the main article.
I see what you're (Loganberry) saying about consistency, but splitting due to length is a perfectly valid thing to do for practical reasons (both editing *and* reading). Consistency demands that either the Spectrum article grows to a horrible length or that all computers marketed differently get their own article....
Should Laser 200 be split into separate articles for "Texet TX8000" and "Dick Smith VZ200" simply for this reason? In all honesty, I think that would be a very counterproductive thing to do.
Fourohfour 18:26, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
I disagree. They're different machines,
I should point out this is a circular argument; we're basically discussing whether or not they're different machines, so you can't assert that they're different machines and use that for support. :)
made in different countries
Many computers, consoles, cars, etc. belonging to the same range have been manufactured in several different countries; e.g. the ZX Spectrum was originally manufactured in Scotland and (IIRC) later made in China. More significantly, many of the "same" version of many products have been manufactured in different places, often simultaneously.
by different companies,
Well, the ZX81 was (mainly IIRC) made by Timex, so that point's debatable.
sold under different names in different packaging.
Different packaging? Well, that's true; not sure if it's that big a deal.
Yes, they differed mainly only in specification (e.g. amount of RAM as standard, type of TV modulator and case design)
It should be noted that other machines (e.g. the Atari 800) came in NTSC/PAL variants, and with varying amounts of RAM. Even the case design issue is only internal and relates to the shielding. Variations of such (or greater) significance have occurred over the lifetime of other computers such as the Commodore 64.
but the same is true of myriads of PC-compatibles, but they are not all lumped together. They're different - but closely-related - machines. Keep 'em separated. And I'm not just saying this because (AFAICR) I'm the author of the TS1000, TS1500 & Laser 200 articles! Liam Proven 12:04, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
The *vast* majority of PC compatibles do not warrant (and have not got) separate articles.
My main concern is that I cannot see any great benefit to having two separate articles; a lot of the information is going to be pointlessly duplicated, and if it isn't it will end up being a stubby article which refers to the 'main' ZX81 article. In which case, why have it separate at all when it would be better placed in the more encompassing and illuminating context of a single article? Fourohfour 19:36, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

I disagree with the merge proposal. Both articles are good at present. To combine them only gives the possibility of confusion between the two very similar iterations. In addition both are very clearly linked to each other early on in the text. The situation seems perfectly good as it is.HappyVR 19:46, 14 May 2006 (UTC) If only for the sake of clarity, please do not merge these two articles.HappyVR 19:49, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

I also disagree with the merge proposal. The US 'Syntax' magazine published programs for the prototype BASIC in Dec 1980 and a considerable number of ZX81s were sold in America prior to the production of the TS-1000. The TS-1500 came at the end of 1984 at the same time as the TS-2068. Timex were aware that they had goofed with the ROMs and managed to keep the lid on this for over 20 years. I became suspicious after reading a TS-1500 review in 'Syntax' and imported a machine to the UK in order to confirm that Timex had implemented the Logan/O'Hara division correction without testing it. A lot of books were pulped. This would be out of place in a ZX81/TS-1000 article.

The TS-1500 comes with its own skeletons which should not be allowed to impinge on the status of two Classics.

Popiy Popiy 01:21, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

In response to HappyVR; you said "the possibility of confusion between the two very similar iterations".... in other words, they *are* similar!
Popiy; I don't mean to be rude, but why does the fact that the original ZX81 was sold in North America prior to the TS-1000 justify separate articles? To clear up confusion? On the contrary, separate articles means either (a) inevitable duplication since the two machines are fundamentally the same, or (b) the minor article will end up constantly referring back to the parent article, making it hard to read.
There is no reason that having a separate article (as opposed to "merely" a distinct section) would make this clearer. It comes down to the quality of the writing.
The minor differences in the ROMs are just that; this happens with lots of computers and computer-based products. For example, the Atari 800XL came with at least two slightly different BASIC ROMs, but no-one would dream of using that as justification for separate articles.
Fourohfour 13:08, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
I had not realized that the same discussion served both merger proposals. To me it seems fine to merge the ZX81 and TS-1000 articles as they are essentially the same machine. The TS-1500 article is less important as the machine was launched as Timex pulled out in January 1984. The recently discovered facts about the machine are only important due to the lack of any previous coverage. For instance, the various ROMS of the ZX81 received coverage at the time but not the TS-1500 ROM. A single sentence for the TS-1500 would suffice if it was merged with the ZX81.
--Popiy 18:11, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm against any merger that would dilute the prominence of the ZX81 in this article - after all it' an importrant part of British cultural history. I suspect a certain amount of geographical bias may be at play here. Artw 00:42, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Given that the merged article would be titled "Sinclair ZX81", I don't think that's very likely. BTW, I live in Britain. Fourohfour 11:10, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A few factual errors

There are a number of factual errors in this article.

1. The ZX81/TS1000 clock speed is 3.25MHz, not 3.5MHz as stated in the article (It uses a nominal 6.5MHz ceramic resonator, divided by 2).

2. The article states that the ZX81 contained a single 4118 (1k*8bit) RAM Chip. Actually, a large proportion of the ZX81s made used a pair of 2114 (1k*4bit)RAM chips instead. The PCB was designed so either could be mounted.

3. Further into the article, it states that in SLOW mode, user programs are only executed during the time the electron beam moves from the bottom to the top of the screen (The vertical retrace). This is incorrect. On the ZX81, in SLOW mode, user programs execute in the white top and bottom borders, not the vertical retrace.

4. In the section titled "Integrated Circuits", it "A15 is used for display purposes (see below), and the upper 32K memory area is therefore unusable for code execution, it can still be used to store data (such as BASIC programs) however." It does not state though, that in the default configuration (i.e. without a RAM Pack >16k), the upper 32k contains a shadow of the lower 32k. Hence, the previous sentence refering to 16/8 shadows is not strictly correct.

--MikeWynne 23:44, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Then edit and fix them! Edrigu 20:26, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ZX printer - well built and safe to use...

Wondereing if this is worth mentioning - if you touched the metallised paper whilst the zx printer was operating - under certain conditions (no rubber boots) - you got electricuted - I remember - it happened to me...HappyVR 12:29, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Ha ha.... I've never heard that one before, but it's pretty interesting. Still, unless there's a reputable online source confirming it, it counts as original research and shouldn't go in. Sorry :-( Fourohfour 12:22, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge resolution

As this page is one of the last on Merge since March 2006, I'm making a command decision. Sinclair 1500 was merged into Sinclair 1000, but since Sinclair 1000 now has a good bit of material, I'm NOT merging it to ZX81. If someone disagrees they can re-post the merge. Alba 19:41, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

It seems okay to me now. The only objection I would have would be if more material were added and it ended up duplicating the ZX81 article (in other words, unique non-overlapping material is what counts). Anyway, that's not the case at present. Fourohfour 12:19, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Size and weight?

What are the physical dimentions of the computer? // Liftarn (talk)

[edit] How slow?

In the fast and slow section, it says that a 1-1000 for loop takes 19 seconds to execute, but it is unclear whether this is measured in fast or slow mode. Given the speed of contemporary Basics I'd guess it is slow mode. Can someone who knows please clarify the main article? Drhex (talk) 12:05, 29 April 2008 (UTC)