User talk:Siegele Roland

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[edit] Welcome

[edit] Rename of Part-Dieu railway station

Hi, is there a reason that the Gare de Lyon-Part-Dieu article needs to be called "Part-Dieu railway station"? There's an existing convention among nearly all French rail stations on the English Wikipedia to refer to them in French. Otherwise, I'm not sure this article should be treated differently. Please see the Manual of Style for French rail stations for the convention. Jkatzen (talk) 18:30, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Hello, yes there are several reasons: In EN.wikipedia it is common practice, that railway stations are named like "XXX railway station" (except stations where the word "station" is already included, like Hauptbahnhof). You can find this at Austrian, German, Finnish, Luxembourgean, Turkish, Irish, Italian, British, ... railway stations - so why French stations should be handled different?.

This is not only common in English:

• DE: Bahnhof Roma Termini
• EN: Roma Termini railway station
• ES: Estación de Roma Termini
• FR: Gare de Roma Termini
• IT: Stazione di Roma Termini
• SV: Roma Termini järnvägsstation
• ...

This is because the words Gare de are not really part of the stations name. They're just the translated form of railway station.

An other example: Charles de Gaulle International Airport. The French name is Aéroport Roissy-Charles-de-Gaulle but no one would even think of calling the English title Aéroport.

I hope this arguments are ok for you but we can discuss it further more if you want to. Best regards, Siegele Roland (talk) 14:00, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I'm not necessarily opposed to the change. But you certainly went around making a change to an extraordinary number of articles without even asking around first to see what others thought. As there was already a general community guideline on the issue for French stations, I think it at least warranted a discussion. As for why using gare might be better, I don't know of anyone who refers to the Gare de Lyon in Paris, for instance, using anything other than its full French form. I've never heard even American tourists calling it the "Paris Lyon railway station" (which is confusing on its face for listing two city names without any punctuation or setoffs). I don't speak any languages other than English or French, so I can't comment on how English speakers refer to railway stations in countries other than France. Jkatzen (talk) 14:11, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

You are right, that it may was a bit rude of me: changing without asking before. To be honest, i didn't notice that there is a guideline for the French stations before you told me. But i think this guideline has to be reworked anyway. It is no problem if people refer to Gare de Lyon - therefore we have the redirects. And it is also possible (and even suggestive) to mention the original name in the article.

You don't need to know the other languages. Just look the different categories (railway stations by country) up and you will see. Also the French do it the other way round: fr:Gare de Dublin Connolly for example. So even when it is common by now, why should we except the French from the standard? Cheerio, Siegele Roland (talk) 14:39, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Right, but you can selectively imply "standards" or "anomalies" either way by merely choosing carefully. See the French Wikipedia's reference to Pennsylvania Station and Grand Central Terminal (not Gare Pennsylvania or Gare Grand Central). As for the Gare de Lyon, with the exception of Dutch, every other Wikipedia refers to it as the Gare de Lyon. I think the issue is more one of notability. Very well known landmarks are generally written in the most well-known (typically local) form. While there might (perhaps?) be an argument for referring to the local railway station in Montluçon as merely the "Montluçon railway station", the Gare de Lyon, Gare de la Part-Dieu, Gare de Lyon - Perrache", etc. are such notable landmarks that I think they should be given their common name. (For another country, see München Hauptbahnhof. Also, note that, for instance, the Barcelona Sants railway station was only in this past autumn changed into an Anglicised form. So there's really no consensus.) Jkatzen (talk) 14:53, 2 April 2008 (UTC)