Talk:Sienna Miller

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Contents

[edit] Get, Rid, Of, The, Commas

[edit] Neutrality

This article is not neutral, and never will be. 150.204.49.17 13:51, Aug 19, 2005 (UTC)

This troll put NPOV tags on several, apparently randomly selected articles. To make an NPOV dispute you have to say what it is. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 16:00, August 19, 2005 (UTC)

What's the deal with comparisson to Kate Moss in several occassions?! The article is actually slamming down Sienna Miller. Wikipedia is supposed to be neutral and not judge what people do with their lifes. Please!! Let's keep Wikipedia credible.

[edit] American?

I really don't think its fair to call her "an American actress and model". She was raised in Britain, has a British accent, and considers herself British. The fact that she was born in American, and (presumbly) carries American citizen ship does not make her American.

She was born in America so there is no questions that she an American citizen. Her parents are American and South African. I could find no proof that she holds British citizenship. Her only claim to Britain is that she has lived there a long time. There is proof that she is American and none that she is British, so it would be not be consistent with the facts to call her British. Maybe 'British raised American' would be an appropriate tittle.—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:--63.224.218.206 00:51, 5 August 2006 (UTC)|--63.224.218.206 00:51, 5 August 2006 (UTC)]] ([[User talk:--63.224.218.206 00:51, 5 August 2006 (UTC)|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/--63.224.218.206 00:51, 5 August 2006 (UTC)|contribs]])
Instead of going over this, yet again, as this has been discussed below, why not just contact PFD, which is her agency and ask? There website is www.pfd.co.uk. I don't have time to make the necessary enquiries, but until someone can prove she's not English (again, distinguishing from British, which is a nationality) the point remains that she's an 'American-born English' actress and model. Cheerio, Roche-Kerr 10:57, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

look here:[1] she has both american and british passports and has lived in england from the age of 1 years old i think its very hard to say shes american even though shes lived here nearly all her life "ameican born-english actrees" sound rightVeggiegirl (talk) 13:09, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Controversial

This article is controversial. --Anilocra II 10:27, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

  • This user is vandalizing WP and putting tags on articles at random, usually with no comments on talks. Qaz (talk) 10:44, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Nationality/ethnicity

Does she have an English citizenship? If not, despite whatever she considers herself to be, she isn't English. For now, I'm putting her under the American categories because we know for sure she has American citizenship. Also, is her mother of English/South African descent or something like that? JackO'Lantern 07:35, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

If she was born in the US she would have US citizenship. She would then have British citizenship through her father, and SA citizenship through her mother. She almost certainly owns a British passport as her "main" one, but probably, as she travels/works in the US has one of those too (even tho the US tell you can't have one of theirs plus another passport, even if you hold multiple citizenship). Just go find sme candids of her in an airport and see what she's clutching. And, if you're going to categorise her as american, i'd move the quote where she asserts her Britishness into the main article. Amo 15:28, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I put in "she considers her nationality English" under Early life. Why would she have British citizenship under her father? Is he British? I thought he was an American banker? Anyway, until we see a good source that she has British citizenship we can't really call her "British" (I.e. I don't think they even call Madonna British, and she must have British citizenship). JackO'Lantern 16:27, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Wow, there's me not paying attention; i just assumed her dad was English. I guess we'll just have to assume she's american/South african or naturalised british. But she's a bit of a different case to Madonna, as Miller moved here so young. I mean, Madonna is eligable to live and work here through her marriage to an english man, but i doubt she's dropped her US citizenship. Amo 19:57, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I guess we'll find out eventually if she has any other citizenship than American... JackO'Lantern 19:58, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

There is no such thing as 'English Citizen', she can be a British Citizen and a US Citizen, but she can also be English, as it's a national idenity, not a citizenship. There is a reason our passports say 'British Citizen' (or whichever citizenship the British national may hold) while we refer to 'England' or 'Scotland' or 'Wales' as our home. Thus, 'American-born English actress' is more appropriate, as she considers herself English, regardless of citizenship, which seems to be a US way of defining someone, rather than their cultural orientation. Nick Kerr 11:16, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, 'American-born English actress' is a very good was of phrasing it. Although it should be noted that a passport never (in my experience of being a dual US/UK citizen) records any other citizenship than the one is represents.
Another thing that occurred was the question of her parents marrige at the time of her birth? Were they? I think America grants citizenship to anyone born there, but that's not the case in every country if your mother is foriegn. I'll check that one out.Amo 12:44, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
Well again, are you saying that anyone who considers themselves "English" and calls themselves "English" is automatically English? "English" is a nationality. If you're saying she's "an American-born English actress", you're saying she was born in the US but she is of English nationality - and nationality is attained only through citizenship - i.e. being an official member of a country. The fact that her cultural orientation is English is relevant - and is noted under "Early life" (i.e. "she considers her nationality English"), but we're reporting what she factually "is" - and although it's possible she has an English citizenship/passport, it certainly isn't a certainty and I haven't seen anything to that fact, although I am looking. She may have South African citizenship because of her mother, but that's about it. JackO'Lantern 17:44, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, i think it's fair to call her English if that's how she wishes to be identified. Perhaps "British" would be better (although i personally think that turn of phrase binds it more to a citizenship issue. I mean, i would never say "i am an English citizen". i think that's more about identity)...If you really have a problem with it, how about "an American-born actress currently based in the UK"?Amo 18:09, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

But she's not just UK-based, she's English. She may have a US passport, or a British passport, or what not, but if she culturally identifies herself as English that's what she is. If someone identifies themself as a New Englander or a Californian, they are simply stating cultural identity, not their passport's colour. And that is what matters, I am not trying to take away from her US-birth, simply that she is English (maybe British, that needs to be shown). Nick Kerr 18:24, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Well I admit this is a complicated issue - maybe more than I thought. I guess I'll just go on the assumption that she has English citizenship for now. JackO'Lantern 22:27, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
As I said, she doesn't have to have British citizenship to be English, and there is no such thing as an 'English citizen'. She simply can be an 'American-born English actress' =) Nick Kerr 22:45, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I changed it to the "ethnically" comment, because i think your ethnicity more a matter of opinion. "nationally" is more a matter of fact, and we just don't know the facts in this case. How about "culturally", or "despite her birth, she considers herself English"?Amo 20:13, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Well "ethnicity" usually means someone's ethnic makeup. i.e. half Polish and half Italian, or something like that. I mean, for all we know, she isn't English at all by ethnicity. "Culturally" definitely works, though. JackO'Lantern 20:22, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
I'd have to agree. Why not just 'she considers herself English', removing the issue of nationality or ethnicity. Cheers, Nick Kerr 22:05, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

My only quibble with simple using the phrase "she considers herself English" is that it's quite conspicuously blunt. It rather sticks out, especially as it's under her "early life" and it's not really/only a facet of that.Amo 22:27, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

  • Maybe more relevant under Personal life, then? JackO'Lantern 23:23, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
That could work Nick Kerr 09:24, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

The identification as English, rather than British, should stay, especially as it keeps being reverted to something that is cumbersome and does not serve any real point. If Miss Miller considers herself English, and the English consider her English, and she lives in England, then it would follow that she's English. Her identity is thus not particularly disputable. While the issue of national identity has more prominence in the UK (and BOTs), and is not as easily defined by foreign conventions (though most Europeans understand the system), it should be respected as it is. By my understanding, and everyone I know, she would be considered English, though the matter of British is a question of the greater concept of 'Britain' and her passport status. As she further believes herself to be English, and lives here, I fail to see any points of contention. I was also born in the States, have lived in England for less time than she has, but I've only ever known the Americans to consider this to be important, and to have ever considered me American, while Europeans, other Britons (I only have a British passport, so this can't be disuputed), and Commonwealth citizens would think me English. Thus, beyond ignorance, why is this constantly being reverted? Roche-Kerr 18:13, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

It should say what reliable sources say, i.e. WP:V. So if the majority of sources say she is English (I think they do, right?) that's what we should say. If there's also a significant majority of reliable sources that says "American", I guess it could be "English/American" or "American/English" Mad Jack 18:20, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
I don't think anyone is contesting that she is American, hence my frustration with this. Having just checked over Google, and not being the biggest fan of 'on the balance of probabilities', she is listed as being, on various links 'American', 'British', and 'English'. I don't think anyone is arguing where she was born. Also, you'd use 'Anglo-American' if saying someone is English and American =) Roche-Kerr 18:47, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
Oh well, are you happy with the way the article is now? It seems fine Mad Jack 21:41, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
Yes, just numbered non-users keep reverting it to 'Culturally English', which is getting quite irritating.Roche-Kerr 00:19, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
If someone considers themselves English or any other background/culture/nationality just from living in the respective country and acting with similar mannerisms, it should be pointed out as such. She was born in the US, with a US born father and South African born Mother. You don't become English just because you really want to or that you live there. If I lived in China my whole life but my parents were not Chinese and I was not born in China, I would not be Chinese or Asian. I may consider myself Chinese but it doesn’t change the fact that I am not. If one thinks of themselves English fine, but it should be pointed out why and who considers it.--63.167.255.231 12:41, 1 January 2007 (UTC)(me)
And that's fine, but not in the opening line of the article (and it is referenced), it's fine if it's mentioned later (though her early life information does explain her moving to England). Furthermore, you might not be ethnically Chinese, but if you speak fluent Chinese, live in Hong Kong, and consider yourself Chinese, I fail to see how you are not. As I've said earlier, the perception by any other English person would be that she is English, she considers herself English, and she lives in England. By your logic, I cannot be English because I wasn't born here, and while my father is British, he's of Cornish descent, not Anglo-Saxon. So she may be referenced as to her motivations for feeling English (as may be possible), but the opening lines should remain.Roche-Kerr 13:03, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
If your father is British (I am assuming born in the United Kingdom) then sure, you have an inside track, however neither of Miller's parents have such ties to England.
There is no such thing as an 'inside track'. I am descended from people from this island, as both my grandparents (on my mum's side) are Scottish (as in actually Scots). So I'm British, if we're going to use the racial definition, and particularly so as I'm descended from the Celts who were on this island the longest on known record. This does not, however, mean that people who are born in Zimbabwe, move to England as children, have Zimbabwean parents, and speak like me are not English. A very good friend of mine meets that description, went to a public school, and I consider her English, without any hesitation. The characteristic of 'connection' is very tenuous, and while I am a supporter of greater control over citizenship (both for Britain and for other countries), the rules stand as they are, and cultural identity does as well.Roche-Kerr 22:04, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

mishca burton as born in england but moved to amercia at a young age people consider her amercian Sienna has lived in england from the age of 1 years i find it hard to belive she doesn't have a british passport now after all this time you don't get english,welsh,scotish,northern irish passports only british ones. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Veggiegirl (talk • contribs) 13:20, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "She is primarily known for"

The manual of style indicates that the opening paragraph of a biography should record both what someone does and why they are significant. If you don't agree with that opener, i think it should read "who is most famous for playing Francesca in the film [[Casanova..."Amo 19:24, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] living in NYC

well, to be fair she was living there while shooting "interview", but yeah, i haven't seen any evidence that she keeps a home there or anything. Amo 10:34, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

She also lived there for acting training, as well as being born there. My greatest concern is that she must maintain a residence there, and must spend some visible amount of time there. If I have a house in London and a house in Cornwall, but spend three weeks a year in Cornwall, I think it would be safer to say 'Lives in London, with a holiday home in Cornwall' than 'Lives in London or Cornwall'. Also, there seems to be a bias on Wikipedia about people randomly living in NYC, as I had to change this for Stephen Fry as well, as he was down as New York, when they meant Norfolk =P Cheerio, Roche-Kerr 13:57, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, you're right about eatblishing that, but the article is the best example as it does establish a context for her previous previous connections to NYC. Amo 00:27, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

There are several bits of vandalism in this page, particuarly saying that Kate Moss is more attractive and talented than Sienna Miller.

Pittsburgh is angry. Don't make Pittsburgh angry. We bite. Kolindigo 01:14, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] sorry, fangirls...

...but this:

"She is most famously known for having been cheated on by Jude Law, and for being less popular and attractive than Kate Moss."

will always be true, whether you take it out of the article or not.

If she doesn't like Pittsburgh, she can leave it. We won't mind. 69.164.187.165 01:03, 7 October 2006 (UTC) Pittsburgher

(with a frat guy voice) i think sienna is hotter! KAte moss looks odd not ugly but odd.

[edit] opening para

The opening paragraph is meant to describe who she is and why she's important. that sentence "culterally she considers..." has no place in the opener, and would best be replaced by reference to awards she has won or similar. Her ethicity needs to be incorperated into the article, but seeing as i favour the "america-born english actress" mould i'm at a loss as to how to do it, and think it would be better done by someone else.Amo 13:11, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I know nothing about Miller. Does she speak with an English or an American accent? Thankz.67.176.14.100 14:58, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Not sure, but considering she calls herself an actress and moved to Southern England as a child and spent a significant amount of time there - her London accent in Layer Cake is terrible! Not quite the Dick Van Dyke school, but surely she could have done better? If not then she should go back to acting school!!


[edit] Filmography

Yellow-bellied sapsucker has today wiped out the filmography on the questionable basis that it is already linked to IMDb. According to WP:BIO such lists are appropriate. I've copied the removed text below for reference. Wwwhatsup (talk) 21:46, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Film

Year Title Role
2004 Layer Cake Tammy
Alfie Nikki
2005 Casanova Francesca Bruni
2006 Factory Girl Edie Sedgwick
2007 Interview Katya
Camille Camille Foster
Stardust Victoria
2008 The Edge of Love Caitlin MacNamara
The Mysteries of Pittsburgh Jane Bellwether
Hippie Hippie Shake Louise Ferrier
A Woman of No Importance
2009 G.I. Joe The Baroness

[edit] Television

Year Title Role Notes
2002 The American Embassy Babe Season 1, 1 episode
Bedtime Stacey Season 2, 4 episodes
2003 Keen Eddie Fiona Bickerton

I nominate that the filmography be included in the article. Please indicate support or opposition below. Wwwhatsup (talk) 21:46, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Look it's no a big deal, but why input a lengthy, unselective filmography when the link to IMDb is already provided?? I am not going to contest whatever you decide to do. I am onto something else. Cheers. Yellow-bellied sapsucker (talk) 22:06, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
There's no reason to even debate this. This person is under the provenance of Wikipedia:WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers and one of the goals of that project is to complete and table filmographies. A link to IMDB isn't sufficient and isn't encyclopedic. I'm returning the filmography. Wildhartlivie (talk) 22:40, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
I concur with the keep. I see two benefits with including the filmography -- enabling wiki-links to the films the actors have been in, and also being able to leave notes about a particular film, such as an award win or a voice role. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 13:58, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
This is absurd. IMDb is not part of Wikipedia. Does Encyclopedia Britannica delete core information about subjects because the World Book has it covered? Does IMDb delete core information because Yahoo Movies lists it? This is the silliest logic I think I've ever heard on Wikipedia, so I just had to comment! Go look up the word "encyclopedic." --Melty girl (talk) 19:06, 18 January 2008 (UTC)