User talk:Sidatio

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Unfortunately, Sidatio has retired as a Wikipedia editor. Best wishes and good luck!
Goodbye, Wikipedia!

Now, I know what you're thinking: "Retirement? He was barely here to begin with!" Well, I was here long enough to know that, if I stuck around, it was going to take up a whole bunch of time that could be best spent doing something else - like spending time with family, or getting some extra work done, or maybe just taking a drive somewhere. So, instead of go through the nonsense of wikiholism, I've decided to hang it up before it becomes a problem. Besides - it's not like Wikipedia needs us around here to keep things going. ;-)

But before I hit the road, one piece of advice. Don't let ANY ONE THING consume all of your life. If you find you're spending too much time on just one thing, take a break from it. Go do something else.

To Silver seren - the above specifically applies to you. Life sucks when you have just one hobby, so don't spend all of your time here. And remember: Pick your battles. They don't all need to be fought; just the important ones. If someone's an asshole, don't fight 'em - mock 'em. ;-) (Unless they physically attack you - THAT's a battle that needs to be fought!)

To the multitude of editors who are currently working on revising WP:LIST - sorry to bounce on you. I really am. However, it's mostly worked out anyway. It just needs someone to implement it. Moonriddengirl is doing the last bits of research, and I feel quite confident that she'll come back with the info she needs to make the necessary changes. So, go forth, and change the Wikiworld!

Me? The wife and I are going to the zoo. :-)

-Regards,

Sidatio 18:25, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Death Threats are Serious

I'm sad to see you go, Sid! If it helps, I did some digging on the user behind 71.232.176.63. If he is indeed sending you death threats, that's a criminal offense. A friend of mine works at Comcast, and I had him look it up; the user behind the threats and vandalism is an individual by the name of Michael Agostino, and he lives in Quincy Mass. Sorry to see you go, I hope you decide to come back.. :( Flockheart 02:04, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

OMG! O_O...I never knew about any of this...thats why they left?...I can't believe they didn't say anything...*sigh*...SilverserenC 02:29, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Indeed, check the abuse log. Sidatio did nothing wrong. This breaks my heart. :( Flockheart 06:30, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
...I can't believe they never said a thing...i'm definitely adding them to the list. No user should be driven away from Wikipedia like this...so thats 2 so far...SilverserenC 14:08, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] For what it's worth...

The individual in question was apparently Mr. Harris' webmaster. He was traced and dealt with by Harris' own attorney. I don't recall any death threats, but let's face it - you really can't go too many places on the internet anymore without some internet tough guy claiming he's going to come to your house and kill you just as soon as he finishes up his homework. ;)

In all reality, I had thought about coming back sometime in late September, but instead I got involved in a major civics project in my home county, which turned out to be a success thanks to the hard work of everyone involved. That project led to another project and a writing gig, so while I won't be back doing edits full-time, I'll pop on every now and again... though I'm probably just saying this to myself, as I sincerely doubt anyone reads this drivel anymore!

Besides, this place is entertaining in small doses. Sidatio (talk) 04:15, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Glad to hear that blew over. Welcome semi-back.--Father Goose (talk) 06:57, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm sad to say that I am very rarely on Wiki nowadays. I'm far too busy with school work and other things in my life. I'm glad to hear that things turned out alright and that you are still, somewhat, around. While you may not see me around when you are, just know that I will always be a friend. ;) SilverserenC 20:59, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A Reply To Your Curiosity

1) First and foremost, as you said, it is my discussion page. I will do with it as I will.

2) Censorship is ancient and the discontinuing of a meme, where prudent, from the social continuum, serves an important purpose. One of the things that made these United States tolerable was that from its inception up until about 1900 AD it was a "Melting Pot" of ideas: where the good and the bad were mixed together in the same pot and heated through constant scrutiny, until toxins were boiled away.

3) Not all censorship is inherently evil. Self censorship is exponentially worse than censorship. The right to speak and be heard is immutable, but currently there is no right to speak what you might have heard. Yet, if you choose to elaborate on what you heard and in so doing contribute, your right to do so reasonably is preserved.

4) If people decide to destroy knowledge it is censorship, if people choose to not produce knowledge it is self censorship. If government chooses not to answer a question it is secrecy, if you choose to not ask a question it is stupidity. Because I disagree with your ideas, I should comment about my own.

Darts777 03:51, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

  • Um, right. Regardless, the vandalism warnings I gave you are preserved by your edit history. If you want to contribute, feel free - but please refrain from posting hearsay and slanted POV as fact. :-) Sidatio 10:52, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/James Solomon

Closing AFDs? Better do it the right way, then. I've repaired the AFD page for you, now you do the rest of the job. (See Wikipedia:Deletion process#Articles for Deletion page - Process - point 8.) Thanks, Punkmorten 11:50, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

  • They say you learn best from your mistakes. I should be a Rhodes scholar by this point, then. ;-) Thanks for the heads-up! Sidatio 13:01, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] If you're not serious

Most incidents labelled as vandalism do not require the consultation of that person when reverting their edits. If you want your comments to be taken seriously and left alone, then keep to something we can use. If you want to joke about something, I suggest the Uncyclopedia. AfD's have a very simple method of being used: Comment, Speedy Delete, Delete, Keep, Strong Keep or Delete. If someone leaves their vote as "Kill all with massive amounts of fire" that is vandalism, even if its a joke. "I am more notable than these guys. There's nothing out there for any of the above-mentioned articles" does not provide any means to a legitimate vote. AfD's are tasks that need to be done and making them complicated with votes we cannot consider does not help. If you're going to take the fact that I removed your comment so seriously, and then remove my comment, put a new one back, restore my comment, leave a complaint here, and post a message on my talk page -- then you should reconsider your own comments if you want to be taken seriously. Sarcasm and jokes are fine, but I have to say in this case there was almost no distinction between a whimsical joke in the middle of a vote and the most common vandalism we see here at AfD's. (If you're not serious and want to be taken seriously as a contributor to Wikipedia, then help us out and be serious). Thanks for your time. Mkdwtalk 22:19, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

  • To each his own. If you don't like my style, that's fine - no one says you have to. I don't edit here to impress anyone. All I ask for is civility in editing my comments. It looks like you spend enough time around here to know what I'm talking about, right? If you don't like how I say what I say, by all means, discuss it with me. If you're going to call someone a vandal, however, I'd make certain that's what they're doing first by taking a glance at their contributions. But hey, that's just me - I try to give the benefit of a doubt first. Not everyone's like that. :-) Sidatio 22:37, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Yay! Sparklies!

Thank you! And thank you for contributing so much to the discussion. I'm not sure we'll reach consensus with all editors, but it's certainly a valiant effort. :) --Moonriddengirl 20:57, 3 August 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Randomness of the Week

dude, can you please talk with the other two people obsessed with two pages with no content. you reverted something that you have no idea about —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.232.176.63 (talk • contribs)

It's not a tax protester, but I'll take it.

The problem here is, you're defacing other people's user pages. I've seen the text file you continually rail about - who's to say that's not hacked? Bottom line - it's vandalism, and I'll revert it if I see it. :-) Sidatio 00:31, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


hacked? go to the web site, go to the contact page, and email me. I will reply from a divadome address... SIMPLE AS THAT... but NO, I have to deal with all these wiki-trolls. Don't be one. Send the email! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.232.176.63 (talk • contribs)

Hmm - we have here an anonymous IP who blanks user talk pages and solicits emails from individuals - all while failing to sign their own comments and using abusive language toward said users. And you rail about trolls?
As far as to your solicitation of my email, I'm afraid I'm going to have to decline. I can't say I'm wild about the prospect of handing my email over to an obscure website on the request of a rather gruff vandal. At best, it could be email harvesting - at worst, some Nigerian scam deal. No, I think I'll just keep the conversation here, where my computer is safe. I do, however, thank you sincerely for the offer. :-) Sidatio 00:42, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Question

Is there a barnstar of patience?  ;) Douglasmtaylor T/C 00:36, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

  • I'm not aware that one exists, but it's a capital idea. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sidatio (talk • contribs)
The lack of signatures is contagious! Up is red! Green is south! Everything is nothing the way it seems! Sidatio 00:43, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Can we be friends

Sorry for that faux pas of mine. I guess you too could have avoided including the Hufflepuffs and orangutans in a message of yours.

Regards moon 06:22, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

This is becoming a common theme - I don't get what you mean.
I don't view you as any kind of "enemy" who needs to be "beaten". For the love of all that is holy, it's just an encyclopedia. I'm not on any kind of crusade. No matter what the consensus for ANY AfD in which I participate, it really doesn't matter to me. It's a place for my opinion, and I give it - nothing more, nothing less. It's not a contest for me. Now, if things are wrongly attributed to me, or my message is somehow misinterpreted or not conveyed properly, yes, I'll expound, but that's not to be taken as trying to "win" anything. I like having a straight record, is all.
Bottom line - I don't hold any ill will toward you, or your articles, or anything but pedophiles and people who take delight in harming animals. You do whatever it is you feel necessary to do. I, in the meanwhile, will continue to voice my own opinion in the spirit of sapere aude - with no ill will towards you or anyone, regardless of my opinion of anyone's work. Sidatio 06:38, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Your names

If those are your names, I'm really not sure. If they are on your userpage or you have used this username on other sites, a simple google search would have brought it up. I wouldn't be worried about first names, though, since nothing can be done with that information.

If you really are concerned, the edits can be removed from the edit history so that only administrators would have access to them, and quite frankly, no administrator would really care enough to ever look. Just drop me a line if you want those particular edits to be deleted. Natalie 22:28, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm not sure if I understand what you're asking. Currently, this information doesn't appear on the person's usertalk page, but the edits still appear in the page history. I can remove it from the page history, so these edits will not be visible to regular users. Only administrators would be able to see them. They could be restored on request if you need that done for some reason. If this is what you were thinking about, then yes, I can do that. Natalie 22:42, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
I've removed the problematic versions, as well as one version that contained several people's email addresses. You may also want to review your userpage history and make sure that this information hasn't been on your userpage at any time. If it has and you're worried about it, that information can also be removed. Natalie 23:44, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
No problem - that's why they give us the shiny buttons! Natalie 23:54, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


Sounds to me like someone should have minded their own business! :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.232.176.63 (talk • contribs)

Harassment and threats are something I take VERY seriously. I strongly suggest you cease and desist. Sidatio 02:18, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] page protection

This is a really common mistake, but adding a protection template to a page doesn't actually protect the page - it just alerts other people that the page has been protected. Only administrators can protect pages. You can request page protection at Wikipedia: requests for page protection or by contacting an administrator. User talk page are generally only protected in the case of extensive, ongoing abuse from multiple IP addresses, and even in that case usually only protected for a short period of time. In this case, I would suggest denying recognition - revert any trollish or threatening edits, warn the editor if necessary, and report them if they continue in this fashion. Natalie 02:27, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

No worries. Do take Irishguy's advice below, though - deal with anything legal off-wiki. On wiki, WP:DENY is your friend. Natalie 03:01, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Um, my name's Eddie :-) --Boricuaeddie 03:02, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] No Legal Threats

Please note that by posting this you violated the No legal threats policy. If you need to use resort to legal action, please discuss terms outside of Wikipedia. If you continue this behavior, you will be blocked from editing. --Boricuaeddie 02:58, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

My apologies - I'm obviously new to this experience. I will remove the warning and proceed accordingly. Thank you for the correction. Sidatio 03:10, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Abuse Reports

Regarding Wikipedia:Abuse reports/71.232.176.63, please note that anyone can obtain the information you described using the WHOIS service. I think that the IP is just a garden variety troll and you should ignore the threats and just forget about it. Happy editing! --Boricuaeddie 03:47, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Also, please note that posting private correspondence on-wiki is a violation of U.S. copyright laws. I have removed the message per this reasoning. --Boricuaeddie 03:49, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
I sincerely hope this is the case. Thank you very much for your help! Sidatio 03:54, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chainjoy!

Moonriddengirl has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing!

Good to see you on vandalism patrol. Ever vigilant, we! ;) --Moonriddengirl 01:42, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

By the way, I truly think that if anybody deserves a barnstar for recent AfD discussion, it's (one or both of) you. I've never seen one conducted quite so dramatically, but you seem to keep your patience throughout. Kudos to you for a job well done. --Moonriddengirl 02:00, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for Spreading Smiles

You message is most welcome . Happy Friendship Day!

  • M :):)N

moon 12:38, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Just saw your comments at AFD

Ref: Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Behold... The Arctopus. This comes up often enough that I thought I'd give you a reply for what it's worth. A disputed speedy or an admin declining to speedily delete an article is no precedent nor much value in determining whether the article ought to be kept at afd. In fact, most articles that fit that mold are deleted via prod or afd. Why? Many views to that, the most common ones: 1. It's a process thing, WP:CSD is very narrow and a mere assertion of notability defeats speedy deletion, and 2. The admin community and most editors who participate in AFD discussions are quite classifiable as "inclusionist" or "deletionist" - both of which are valid "orientations", so the admin who first comes across the article may be an inclusionist and thinks that WP:N or any specific notability requirement should be read very broadly and all benefit of doubt accorded to the subject, and the community consensus may be less forgiving of failures to meet such requirements. And much may depend on who's paying attention any given day, whether the subject is otherwise controversial (which brings in lots of rarer participants at AFD that swing the consensus one way or another), and probably even the phase of the moon. Carlossuarez46 18:49, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

  • Sure, since you asked I figured I'd answer because I had that same question in mind at times. By the way, I have been accused as being too deletionist, but the only AfD I closed that got overturned at DRV was a "no consensus" that got relisted. Go figure - I guess I was not deletionist enough in some folks' opinions. LOL Carlossuarez46 18:59, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RE: Astarabadi

This conversation has been moved to the conversations page.

[edit] List of Iranian Women Categorization.

I'd be happy to help. However, since two categories I created for the Indian women list are being considered for deletion, I think I'd better stay away from artists & actors. They deletion discussion seems like it could go either way right now, and I'd feel uncomfortable creating categories for Iranian actors & artists given that consensus might be that the category is inappropriate. That said, I'm at your disposal. How can I best help? You want to give me a category or two or three? :) --Moonriddengirl 14:27, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I'll start at the bottom. :) --Moonriddengirl 14:42, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
Just an FYI, I started a category for Iranian women in politics. Oh, and Iranian women activists, since the one I found wasn't a women's rights activist. --Moonriddengirl 14:55, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
Another category: Iranian women physicians. And you probably know about this, but I only discovered it while working on the Indian women categories: {{DEFAULTSORT:Lastname, First}} at the head of the categories saves a lot of duplicate writing. --Moonriddengirl 15:10, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
Considering that you mentioned it in your note to me, you probably already did know about DEFAULTSORT. :D I'll get as far as I can and let you know how far up the list I make it. Hopefully I am categorizing in ways that suit your master plan. --Moonriddengirl 15:19, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
Okay. I've created the following new categories since last I wrote:Iranian women journalists, Iranian women royalty. Working up from the bottom, I categorized everything I saw up to "athletes." Hope that helps. Off to do some real work now. (After a quick peak at current AfD noms.) --Moonriddengirl 15:51, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar

The Barnstar of Good Humor
Mr & Mrs Sidatio, best wishes and stay cool during this difficult time. Axl 19:13, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
This is the best barnstar we could possibly receive. We will put a copy of it on our user page. Thank you very much for the gift! Sidatio 19:32, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit]  ?

What did you mean by rollover message in your status bar?Silver seren 20:19, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Oh, okay. Darn...most people just click it without noticing the status bar. XP Silver seren 20:48, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
Done. Thanks for the advice. :)Silver seren 20:55, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] XD

Silver seren has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Your reversion on this page of the copyright note, specifically the message for it, made me laugh a lot. Thank you for making my day. :) Silver seren 01:40, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] On a Category

Dear Sidatio, just wished to let you know that the category "People from Mashad" must be "People from Mashhad" (two h's - the place-name is pronounced Mash-had; see Mashhad). I have not taken any action, since category pages seem not to have the option "move" and I did not wish to introduce any changes that would badly affect a large number of pages which contain the category "People from Mashad". Could you please kindly have a look into this problem? I have already left a message on the Talk page of "People from Mashad". Thanks in advance for the trouble. --BF 12:04, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Dear Sidatio, thank you for your note on my page. As for splitting the page in smaller units, my general feeling is that it is too much work for almost no reward (I simply do not believe the list to be unmanageably long). I strongly believe that at this stage it is far better to invest time in improving the quality of the contents of the pages than in other activities. But of course, you should do whatever you deem to be the right things to do. As for the Mashhad Category, yesterday I left a note for the person who has created it, but for some reason neglected to let you know about it - apologies for that. Kind regards, --BF 16:13, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Iranian women afd

Boy... I just went through the AfD discussion and you sure took took a lot of flack... I'm impressed you kept your cool! Pascal.Tesson 08:57, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Of course, with my overwhelming curiosity, I had to go look at the AfD. And I completely agree with Pascal. I suppose being two people helps though. ;) For some reason, while reading through that, it seemed like BF was slightly treating the entire discussion like it was a battleground. Do you think the same?
P.S. Yes...i'm watching you. XD Silver seren 15:10, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

This response is copied from Silver seren's talk page for the benefit of the one or two other people who actually read this drek that may or may not pass for a sitcom on UPN:

  • Hooray! Our talk page has an audience!

BF, like many others, is simply passionate about his work. To me, the article in question was simply an inefficiency. To him, the article is a monument to an oppressed gender from his culture, and he had other reasons for defending that article that I won't get into - that's for him to divulge if he feels it necessary. So, he saw it as something to defend from an individual who he perceived as attacking said monument. While I may not agree with that particular line of thought, I can certainly understand it.

As far as taking the abuse: Once you get married, try waking your wife at 3 AM to borrow the truck she so desperately loves to deliver papers. If you live through the resulting onslaught, I promise you'll be ready for just about anything. Sidatio 15:32, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

I still think that he was going a little overboard on it. I mean, turning it into a category would have been entirely beneficial to keeping the information organized on Wikipedia. But, I guess emotions are more powerful than neutrality.
And i'll keep that in mind. ;) Though I think I mean to be done with high school and college before then.Silver seren 15:33, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks! Now I will trick many people. Mwuwahahaha!!!
Oh...I was just wondering, even though it isn't that important, which of the Sidatio team i've been corresponding with?Silver seren 15:45, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
In our little duo, I (the husband) tend to handle public relations, while my wife tends to work more on articles. In the instance of talk pages, I handle just about all communications, as well as AfD concerns while the wife helps me copyedit and typoshoot. Sidatio 16:09, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
The perfect team, huh? ;) Silver seren 17:54, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
I wouldn't have it any other way. Sidatio 18:07, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
XD Silver seren 18:12, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: policy discussion

Re Wikipedia: Village pump (policy)#Proposal to make a policy or guideline for lists Boy, and how! Thanks for letting me know about it. I'm there. --Moonriddengirl 16:13, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

  • Dear Sidatio, thanks for your invitation to the Village pump, etc. I have just quickly read your text and have perhaps one or two suggestions. I shall write these on the page in the course of the coming days (or perhaps next week). For now, I believe that it would be a good idea to ask, as a rule, those who intend to open a new List to write some hundred words, or thereabouts (perhaps fifty - the more concise the better), about what they believe to be the main purpose of their intended List and the aims it would possibly serve; one would call it a "Mission Statement". Such Statement would be useful to both the editors who are to maintain the List and to the future contributors to the List (before leaving something in a List, one would read the Mission Statement; this already may dissuade some to leave anything in the List - by the possibility that they may not subscribe to the aims of the List). Further, I believe the requirement of such "Mission Statements" as precondition for creating new Lists would also serve to focus the minds of those who are about to open new Lists; in some cases, the process of thinking about this "Mission Statement" may lead the person to the conclusion that opening the List might not be a good idea after all. In addition, such Mission Statement can help editors by taking early action, before the List has become its own reason for existence --- people get used to Lists and are likely to react emotionally the longer it takes before someone suggests to delete them. Kind regards, BF.
p.s.) The above text has become longer than I had intended. In the event that you believe that it may contribute to the discussions on the Village pump, please do not hesitate and transfer it to that page. --BF 18:54, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
  • My suggestions are there as well. Hope it goes through! Silver seren 19:15, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Thanks, guys! I really appreciate the input. With any luck, we can arrive at a consensus that future editors can use. At worst, we've opened meaningful discourse on the topic! Sidatio 19:27, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] unsigned at village pump

For obvious reasons, I thought it would be good to tag your recent comment at Village Pump. If you want to go in and put in your own signature, I have absolutely no problem with your writing right over my contribution. :) --Moonriddengirl 19:29, 13 August 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Welcome to the Wikipedia Project Tennessee

How nice to see some activity in the Tennessee project. Lately there has not been that much activity on the TN project page. It is nice to see more opinions on article ratings, and project issues. I guess that the other members are pretty much involved with writing and improving articles. Good to see you guys on the list of active members.

Take care, doxTxob \ talk 20:42, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Your note to Jimbo

So you know, Jimbo doesn't have a huge say on policy, except in legal matters etc. Village Pump is the best place to go, as a lot of users go there, and policies are formed by consensus. Although, jimbo does comment a bit on policy proposals, so you might get a comment.

Thanks! Matt/TheFearow (Talk) (Contribs) (Bot) 22:28, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

If there is consensus, you can go right ahead and create the policy pages. If theres not, you just have to archive the discussion. Matt/TheFearow (Talk) (Contribs) (Bot) 01:22, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Well, duh

I make sure to keep up with stuff, don't worry about that.

Of course, other people need to say something for there to be a discussion in the first place. XP And, like always, I notice that everyone ignored what I put on there...typical.Silver seren 01:12, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

  • I'm sure that's not the case - I, for one, haven't responded to much tonight because I'm busy requesting input from the more experienced users. ;-) Also, the reminder was just a courtesy. It always pays to be courteous! Sidatio 01:13, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
True, true. And I wasn't specifying you at all; I was being more generalized. Sorry if it sounded like I was targeting you or anything. o_o; Silver seren 01:16, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Well, we're definitely glad you're contributing. You raise some good points; particularly the questions about criteria 2 and 6, as well as the smatterings of humor. It's always good to keep a serious topic somewhat light-hearted, as I'm sure you're aware. Sidatio 01:20, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
I try...though don't talk to me when i'm on a vandalism spree. I get kinda mean when i'm on those because the vandals annoy me so. Besides that, though, I try to be as upbeat as possible.
But you are the master of humor, hands down. ;) Silver seren 01:23, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
If you could convince my wife of that, I'd deeply appreciate it. She only laughs when I want money. Sidatio 01:24, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, but you've got your work cut out for you there. My mom controls the money in out house and my dad has to email or call to ask if he can take some money out from the account. Its pretty funny, actually.Silver seren 01:36, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Tell your dad that I can relate. :-p Sidatio 01:38, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
I'll tell him when he calls tomorrow. XP Silver seren 01:42, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Conversations..

I didn't know whether you were going to monitor further developments there, so I wanted to share this page with you: Special:Longpages which shows lists (whether or not so titled) are the mainstays at the top. Carlossuarez46 22:23, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Can you help?

It started here, User:JetLover/Just got owned, and then transferred to our talk pages. The he is User:AldeBaer/welcome. I believe that he is being rude, but he doesn't think so. Then, he proceeded to put something on mine, User:Silver seren/Joke, which I reverted because I found it to be in very bad taste. Now he is criticizing my "taste" and such, while still doing it in a rude manner.

I am rapidly losing any sort of humor or good will i've been holding on this guy. My anger is rapidly rising, no matter how I try to stop it. Can you help me sort this out before I possibly go berserk?Silver seren 02:51, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I can certainly try - let me take a look. Sidatio 03:00, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
I came, I saw, I commented on your talk page. Some people are just naturally condescending - you know, like Frasier Crane. Sidatio 03:22, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Thank you. :) *hugs* Silver seren 03:25, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Sidatio, thank you for your well-formulated third opinion on the matter, something well worth mentioning in your editor review. Speaking of which, I did a quick google search to demonstrate Silver seren how that prank new messages bar is often critically mentioned in editor reviews and gave him/her several links to editor reviews in which this happened. I know I have a tendency to make barbed comments, which I'm probably not doing my best to resist, but in this case I believe Silver seren is upset for no good reason, or at least not a sufficient reason for the degree of being upset I perceive in his/her comments. However, I hope s/he is going to actually read the WP:ER links I provided and figure out the rest him/herself. Thanks again. —AldeBaer 12:17, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Hey, anytime. If there's one thing I love, it's offering my opinion. But seriously...
This just seems to be one of the many, many times an issue arises simply because the conversation isn't taking part face-to-face. It's hard sometimes to accurately convey one's opinion using just written words - they're so easy to misinterpret without the nuances of vocal inflection and facial expression. Also, while withering sarcasm can be exceedingly funny under the right circumstances, it can also turn molehills into mountains very quickly. (Remind me sometime to post the story of how I pissed off the webmaster of the Zimbabwe government's official website. I think I still have the emails from that one.)
Anyway, if the guy wants to have a joke box, I don't see too much harm in it. It's not like it's spreading a virus or anything. Also, I have to accept my part of the blame for it, as I helped him perfect it. Practical jokes might not exactly be the height of diplomatic behavior, but if it's the worst thing to show up on an editor's review, then they're doing better than almost any politician and most public figures nowadays. (At least in the United States.) Sidatio 12:42, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Do I hear some critical undertones with regard to honorable politicians? —AldeBaer 13:17, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Isn't the phrase "honorable politicians" an oxymoron? ;-) Sidatio 13:40, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Editor review/Sidatio

I reviewed you. —AldeBaer 13:15, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] My 1000th edit!

I give this edit to you because you are the best friend I have here on Wikipedia. Onward and upward! Silver seren 18:20, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm very flattered, but I should warn you - I'm a terrible mooch and will probably end up borrowing your money, car, and possibly any computer equipment you might have. Congrats on your 1,000th edit! Sidatio 18:31, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Well, I don't get my license until November. My computer's from 2001. And I don't have a job. Have fun with that. ;) And thanks. Only thousands more to go. Silver seren 18:39, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Personal comments

Please don't spam up wikipedia talk pages with extensive comments about me, as you did here [1]. And don't criticize me for "Sophomoric, condescending comments" when you insult my motives and those of everyone who works on lists of that kind. Kappa 05:15, 16 August 2007 (UTC) ]

You know, I just can't take a civility lecture from someone like you seriously, Kappa. Maybe if you didn't have ownership issues with list articles, you wouldn't have been so personally offended by my nomination of List of chefs for deletion, nor do I believe you would have made the remarks you did on the List of chefs talk page. (Then again, maybe you're just like that.) Further, I believe I was well within my right to point out that your condescending tone and attitude toward myself is counter-productive to intelligent discourse.
Now, the way I see it, you have three options. You can walk away, discuss the topic calmly and rationally, or attempt to spout off with the same "holier-than-thou" tripe you've been giving me and several other editors recently. I'd advise one of the first two options, but history tells me you won't take my advice. Sidatio 11:21, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Your nomination of list of chefs is insulting to the people who worked on it before, which does not include myself as far as I remember. Of course it has the tactical advantage of being insulting to anyone who tries to work on it as well. Kappa 17:03, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
And apparently, history is damned to repeat itself yet again.
Just because an article is nominated for deletion doesn't mean it's an insult, my young friend. It means one editor thinks that maybe, it's not suitable for inclusion in an encyclopedia for (insert reason here). By nominating the article, the editor merely seeks the consensus of the editing community. Consensus is reached, action is taken, life goes on. At no point in the process does anyone seek to insult anyone - unless, of course, you happen to be taking part in the discussion, it seems. You're the only person I've seen trying to insult anyone during the List of chefs AfD, really. Not only is that failing to win you any arguments, it seems to be distracting you from making solid points. But hey, what do you care, right? To you, it just seems to be one more chance to feed your apparent superiority complex by coming onto AfDs (or, in this case, my talk page) and making laughable attempts to belittle the actions and rationale of people who don't agree with your line of thinking. While you might think that's a great way to conduct yourself, it's only going to turn you into a source of my own personal amusement on this particular page.
On the other hand, if you'd like to discuss the particular merits of this article without trying your best to be as abrasive as possible, I'm all for that. Sadly, history once again tells me this won't be the case. I won't stop hoping you'll buck that trend and hold a civil conversation, but until that time comes:
“ Finally, please note that abject nonsense will be soundly ridiculed. Smartassery is something of a talent of ours. Serious threats against us, on the other hand, will be addressed quickly and thoroughly. We will not tolerate threats or serious harassment over something as trifling as a Wikipedia article. (Non-serious harassment falls into the category of abject nonsense and is subject to pointed mockery.) ”
So hey, do whatever you want. ;-) Sidatio 17:22, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
"And apparently, history is damned to repeat itself yet again" never a truer word. Just nominating an article for deletion is not an insult, but calling it "cruft" and maligning the motives of the people who worked on it is. Kappa 21:20, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Oh, so now I've "maligned people's motives" by citing the name of the essay. You DO realize, of course, that I didn't name WP:LISTCRUFT, right? Besides, it's just a nonsense word anyway - I didn't realize it would bruise your fragile little ego so.
This is kinda getting boring. Do you have a point to make other than some POV rant involving your personal beliefs about the intent and purpose of articles, or wild accusations about the motives of editors who name pet projects of yours for deletion? (Let me head you off there: It certainly seems like a pet project of yours given your extensive work on lists in general and this list in particular) Sidatio 21:45, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
You maligned people's motives when you said "The list was created just for the sake of having such a list". Kappa 22:19, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Isn't that the truth though? We have many such lists on Wiki for that very reason that should be deleted. What are their motives then? Silver seren 22:34, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
See WP:LIST Kappa 23:02, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
See [2] :) Silver seren 23:11, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
You are comparing a list of dictators with a list of chefs ? Kappa 10:51, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
I was just quoting from WP:LISTCRUFT. You know, point 1 of the essay? I put my interpretation of that point next to that quote, though. The wording of point 1 is strong, but like I said - those weren't my words. I just quoted them.
Oh, and WP:LIST doesn't really have any inclusion guidelines - yet. By the time the discussion on the topic is finished, though, it certainly will. I think you'd be pleasantly surprised at the outcome, if it goes through as proposed. Sidatio 00:00, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
The fact someone else said first it doesn't make it less of an insult. Kappa 10:51, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
This got old a long time ago, Kappa. Do you have anything pertinent to add, or am I just damned to hear you go on about how my quoting someone else's essay offends your personal sensibilities?
It should go through as proposed. There's nothing wrong with it I can see.Silver seren 00:02, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RFC tag

I think you have to leave the RFC tag in place until a bot comes along and adds the page to the RFC list. I'm not sure how long it takes the bot to update it, but just put it up and leave it up.--Father Goose 14:55, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I see. I'll give it a go. Thanks! Sidatio 15:15, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sorry

Sorry that I haven't commented more in the policy change for lists. You guys kinda...lost me. o_o;Silver seren 21:47, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

If it helps any, I find it a little overwhelming myself sometimes. That conversation REALLY grew, and it's not even half-over yet. That's what happens when you try to effect lasting change, though. Sidatio 21:56, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
I wouldn't be much help at this point anyways, I think. You guys are getting more technical about Wikipedia and I don't know much about that yet.Silver seren 22:03, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Hoobajoobawha? Where did you pull that word from? XD Silver seren 00:42, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
This webcomic. It's now a staple of my vocabulary, much like several other words found in webcomics. Sidatio 00:48, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] cross section of existing lists

If you have an organizational strategy (or come up with one), I'll be glad to help.  :) --Moonriddengirl 13:24, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

The strategy is one of straight-up brute force: Take 100 people-related lists, 100 non-people-related lists, and test the 3/2 and 2/2 criteria. For example:
List of painters:
Summary: Large, sprawling list of people with only one inclusion criterion. Sublisting needed.
3/2 Possible outcomes - Painters by: (country) and (time period), (gender) and (country), (gender) and (style), (country) and (style), (time period) and (style)
Are the outcomes viable?: Yes; each sublist suggestion would spawn maintainable, navigable lists.
Possible Issues: Painters by (gender) and (country) and Painters by (gender) and (style) could possibly lead to further sublisting arguments. (Country) criteria could inspire nationalist arguments for some painters.
2/2 Possible outcomes - Painters by: (country), (time period), (gender), (style)
Are the outcomes viable?: All but gender.
Possible issues: Quite a few outcomes would be susceptible to further sublisting based on size.
If we don't get any other help, though, we might be looking at just doing 50 of each, with 5 or so from random categories according to the List of lists. I'd like to get this done, but I'm not about to make it the focal point of my weekend. Sidatio 13:46, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
At the moment, I'm actually tuned in to your discussion page. :) I want to be sure that I'm clear on the instructions. Looking at List of lists, we'll each snag 100 or so categories and determine their survival by the 3/2 or 2/2 criteria, according to the nature. Should our report look something like this?
List of male tennis players--fails 3/2. Possible solutions: subdivide by alphabetical division; subdivide by country.
List of military commanders--fails 3/2. Possible solutions: subdivide by country; war; era (List of medieval military commanders, etc.
List of Beatles songs--meets 2/2.
List of chairs--fails 2/2. Possible solutions: move page to List of chairs by type.
Do we list the pages that meet criteria or only the ones that fail? --Moonriddengirl 13:58, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Well, the idea of the study is to see how each proposal functions when applied, so we can better decide which proposal to use. It's a little more in-depth, but if we apply both the 3/2 and the 2/2 to a given list, and report on our findings as to how each proposal affects that list, we should be able to look at the end result and have a good idea which proposal works best in the so-called "real world environment", or if neither one works at all and we have to go back to the drawing board. The "Pass or Fail" approach will definitely be needed after implementation of one of the proposals (provided one is found suitable for implementation, of course), but for now, we need to get a comprehensive comparison of the proposals and see which one works best.
To that end, let's stick with the first example. I modified it to include a Summary section, to note whether or not additional criteria need to be applied to a given list. Can you think of any further modification we'd need to do to the first example reporting method to better enhance the information gathering process? Sidatio 14:48, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Maybe, but I'm still seeking clarification. The one thing I'd question is whether we need "outcomes viable" as a separate list when we could list "?/2 viable outcomes" like so:
List of military commanders
Summary: Extremely long list of military commanders subdivided by era and nationality. Only one inclusion criterion.
3/2 viable outcomes: Military commanders by: (country) and (time period)
Possible Issues: Some (time periods) have disputed range that vary by country--for instance, medieval Japan covers 1185-1600 while medieval Europe is generally counted to have begun in the 6th century and terminated nearly a century sooner. Potential solution: to list by era according to that culture's timeframe. Some military commanders are claimed by more than one country. Solution: double-list if valid claim exists for more than one.
2/2 viable outcomes: Military commanders by : (country)
Possible issues: as above.
Is that what you mean? And, if so, if we find a list that meets 3/2 and 2/2, do we do a profile on it anyway? Do we mention it all? Does it count towards our 100? :)--Moonriddengirl 15:01, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
That works. Also, let's reduce the number we need to do to 50 each. You choose what 50 you want to do - people or non-people. I'll take what you don't. Let's try to avoid lists that already meet 3/2 and/or 2/2 if possible, with the outside exception of people lists that are maintained by country and gender (like List of Iranian women). We both know this is one of the major gray areas that need to be addressed, so let's compare the 3 criteria approach to its current 2 criteria approach. That way, we'll have something to outline the problem of gender as a criterion. Sound good?
Send your findings to me at wiki(at)sidatio(dot)com. Thank you VERY much for the help! Sidatio 15:13, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
All right. I'll do people, because I'm a glutton for punishment. And thanks for the vandalism clean-up. I wonder if the Vandals would be ashamed of their modern-day namesakes. :) Sacking Rome is just so much more notable than scrawling "poo poo" on a toilet stall. --Moonriddengirl 15:48, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
I don't know - I imagine Rome would be sacked every third day nowadays. Let's face it: the Italian military isn't exactly awe-inspiring. Now sacking New York City, THAT would be something. I don't think the Vandals would have much when compared to a mob of pissed-off Bronx inhabitants.
I'll take non-people and spend the weekend working on that. Hopefully, we'll have something to post Sunday night, but if we don't, it's no big deal. Sidatio 15:57, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Comment (how easy it is to loose threads). I am working on it and putting it up at User:Moonriddengirl/List test. Please feel free to look in on it and let me know if I am not doing something the way you'd like it done. --Moonriddengirl 17:00, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Looks great to me! Sidatio 17:15, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Um, I am a bit speechless, but I recover quickly. :) I will miss you; have enjoyed working with you; hope you and the wife enjoy the zoo. I will finish up evaluating people and post my conclusions on the discussion. I'm not sure how far it will proceed without your driving force, but we'll see. If you change your mind(s), be sure to drop me a line. :) --Moonriddengirl 18:42, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


T_T I'll miss you! I hope someday we shall meet again. :) And i'll make sure to follow your advice. Goodbye, best friend of friends! Silver seren 02:37, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] CfD nomination of Category:Iranian women fashion designers

I have nominated Category:Iranian women fashion designers (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at the discussion page. Thank you. SilkTork *SilkyTalk 08:34, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome back!

I've replied to your note. I've gotten in the habit of keeping conversations in one place. :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:57, 8 January 2008 (UTC)