Talk:Sicilian Vespers
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According to legend, the rebellion started after a Sicilian woman went to a church in Palermo to look for her young daughter, who had spent the whole day there praying, only to find her being raped in the church by a French soldier - whereupon the mother then ran into the streets, shouting Ma fia! Ma fia! (meaning "My daughter! My daughter!" in medieval Sicilian dialect). Some have claimed that this tale provides a plausible explanation as to where the word "Mafia" might have originated. Part of my "Legend has it..." collection. This hasn't been checked against any published etymology of "Mafia," I surmise. Oh well.
This entry needs work. Wetman 07:15, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- I am having a lot of trouble working out whether this event took place on 30 March or 31 March of 1282. It could well be because the event took place immediately after the bells sounding at midnight (is that what traditionally happens during the vespers?). So if that is true, didn't the event actually start on 31 March? Certainly, some of the nationalistic Sicilian organisations celebrate the event on 31 March. Finally, this bit about ma fia! and "Mafia" might be an interesting quirky story, but I warrant that no other serious history article in wikipedia would tolerate such unconfirmed and unsubstantiated hogwash. Considering what an important event this was in European history (at the time), you do this article a serious disservice by retaining it. Especially since much of the article is based on Runciman's excellent book, by far the most authoritative account written in English. There are also excellent accounts written in Sicilian and Italian much closer to the date, none of which mention this particular story. As usual, certain elements of the world population are accorded more dignity and respect than others, which is totally at odds with the principles and philosophy of Wikipedia. As always, Sicily and Sicilians are on the receiving end. ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ - (waarom? jus'b'coz!) 03:48, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Chickpea
According to a travel video I saw, the Sicilians executed anyone who could not pronounce the Sicilian word for "chickpea". This is how they picked out the French and other non-natives. The word sounded like "ciccero", but I'm no expert. Can anyone else shed some light on this? - Mcasey666 18:03, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
My grandfather immigrated with his family to the USA in 1890. My father at the time was 5 years old.He was drafted into the Army for World War I He was in France and was in may battles e.g. Argonne forest etc, where he war wounded and received the Purple Heart. I remember speaking Sicilian with my Grandfather (who lived to be 101 yrs and he told me the story of Chickpeas (Cici Beans) or in Sicilian (Phonetical) shishira, as singular or shishiri as plural. The French were hated by the Sicilians for their atrocities and assault upon Sicilian women.The insurection started in Palermo and in order to ferret out the French soldiers and residents . The Sicilians held a Cici bean in front of the individual and demanded that it be identified. The French would pronounce it as kiki beans and subsequently would be disposed of as O.J Simpson did his wife. I am 80 years old Salfin 19:08, 8 January 2007 (UTC)––—19:08, 8 January 2007 (UTC)Salfin
[edit] Two images
I added a second image, and one editor reverted because they were the same. ??? Same painter; because they were part of a series, same title, but not same image. Goldfritha 00:22, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
- Sorry, my fault. Looked the same at first. -- Stbalbach 13:43, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Sicilian Vespers weren`t patriotic.
The Risorgimento has created many myths. For example the idea that the Sicilian Vespers were patriotic because they were against the French. This is nonsense. It was a separatistic revolt against the legitimate King of Naples (legitimated by the Pope!), who was of French origin but he had nothing to do with the "Kingdom of France". The Sicilian revolt had its good reasons but it was "separatistic" not "patriotic" because it weakened the South Italian Kingdom, the only Italian monarchy similar to the other European kingdoms.
- And if the Sicilians didn't consider themselves Italians but Sicilians? One's definition of patriotism must be dependant on one's definition of one's nation. Goldfritha 01:28, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
What you say is true, but the Risorgimento considered the revolt as a symbol of the "Italian" patriotism and not of the "Sicilian" patriotism. This is the problem.
[edit] Guelphs and Ghibellines
Weren't the Vespers part of the struggle between these two factions? Shouldn't this be expressly stated and linked?--Major Bonkers (talk) 01:14, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
