Talk:Shitennou (Sailor Moon)

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[edit] About the images

I hate to ask this, but is it really justifiable to use two pictures of each character here? Since they basically look exactly the same in the anime as they do in the manga, and since none of these are free-use images, shouldn't we try to use as few as possible?

The other thing is that these screenshots are marked as having been posted by their "creator". I really don't think taking a screenshot counts as creating something. --Masamage 22:24, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

I took care of the second point, but the first point awaits comment. --Masamage 00:52, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of images we need PGSM ones. They had gone through some drastic apperance changes for that versionLego3400: The Sage of Time 14:44, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

If we were to banish one set of images, I say keep the manga ones. If we could replace the anime versions with PGSM versions that would be cool. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 15:20, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Hmm, I agree. Actually, if we could find a manga or an anime picture of all four generals, we could put that at the top, and then the individual shots from whichever one isn't represented up there, along with PGSM shots. --Masamage 17:27, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
There's the one with them Hugging the inner senshi up at the top... But Ill look around... Lego3400: The Sage of Time 20:23, 8 November 2006 (UTC) http://mangastyle.net/book1/1-30.jpg TADA! The mangna images in their original context! Lego3400: The Sage of Time 20:39, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Looks kinda funny shrunk down... --Masamage 08:35, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
We can trim off all that extra space at the top and bottom...Lego3400: The Sage of Time 03:38, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
I cropped it and uploaded it: Image:ShitennouGroup.png —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lego3400 (talk • contribs)
Hmm. Maybe if they were moved up and down so as to be in a line? Could work... I don't know if that's an unacceptable amount of editing or what, though. --Masamage 01:33, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
That might be a little hard. Nephrite's image is kind over lapped by Jedite's. The way Kunzite's is can be acceptable but Nephrite is a big problem. Lego3400: The Sage of Time 01:45, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

From the manga side, I think this and this are really good. Don't like this so much. Would love to see an anime shot, but that seems unlikely. --Masamage 07:08, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

The only time you really see any of them together in the anime is when Zoisite and Kunzite are together or Nephrite being mocked by Zoisite. --Lego3400: The Sage of Time 01:47, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Top image. Perhaps we should hack off the parts of sailor moon and tuxedo mask? Tux isn't a shitennou and Moon isn't an inner senshi. I feel a little ambivalent about having this pic as the main one at all, but it is probably the best pic of all four of them. But their respective loyalty don't need to be in the picture. This article isn't about them.Jupiterzguy 04:19, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

@Lego3400 there is a shot of them standing together when the moon kingdom was attacked by the dark kingdom ♥Fighting for charming Love♥ 14:17, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

This page has escaped cleanup too long. I'll try to hit it in the next week or so. Beware! :) --Masamage 07:55, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

What was that about hitting it?Lego3400: The Sage of Time 17:01, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Totally forgot. Real life reared its head. Guess I'll get to it when I come back from wikibreak next Monday. --Masamage 18:08, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Misogyny

Jadeite misogynist in the manga? I've read both the English (Mixx/Tokyopop) version and Alex Grover's translation of and I did not see any evidence of this assertion at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.26.185.45 (talk • contribs)

I'm away from home for Thanksgiving still, but I can look into it when I get back. --Masamage 16:32, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
You're right. Jadeite barely says anything at all, much less his personal opinion of gender relations. Good catch. --Masamage 06:05, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kunzite/Zoisite

This article has switched the names of Ziosite and Kunzite. Kunzite is the thrid and Zoisite is the fourth (the white haired one). Kunzite was called Zoisite in the American dub probably because they thought it sounded more girly. But all the information on these two need to be switched. It's clearly "documented" that in everything but the American dub Kunzite is the blond one (acutally he's brunette much more of a badass in PGSM, but then all of the four kings colors were switched a little in the live action) and Zoisite is the platinum one. I'd switch it all myself but I'm not sure if there's some sort of voting protocol or whatever we should follow.Jupiterzguy 04:19, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

You could have swapped them all yourself, but you would have been quickly reverted by a hoard of rabid fans. They are not switched. Japanese book by Naoko Takeuchi. Pic 1. White Haired Guy Kunzite is written at the top in clear Japanese. Pic 2. Pony-tail guy It clearly says Zoisite at the top. No switch. Kunzite was actually called "Malachite" in the US dub. The reason commonly given, though no source exists, is because of copyright or trademark issues with the name Kunzite. --Kunzite 04:48, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Whoa. Yeah, Kunzite was very definitely the white haired one. Danny Lilithborne 05:46, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Hmm, so PGSM had it wrong then? Because the white haired one is clearly called Zoisite there. I've never watched the first season of the anime, only later seasons so I could be wrong. But I thought it was the other way around. 216.67.155.187 03:34, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
Not "wrong". Different. PGSM totally changed a lot of the character designs. IIRC, it was mentioned in an interview that they were re-worked to fit the actors rather than the original characters. --Kunzite 04:23, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image shuffle

Since the images in this article were last discussed, one of the manga set (Nephrite's) has actual been deleted. Everyone seemed okay with replacing the manga set with a group shot at the time, so I'm going to take this as an impetus to do so. If anyone wants to object, the manga solo shots that still exist are at Image:Jad-manga.png, Image:Zoi-manga.png, and Image:Kunz-manga.png. I'm also putting the Senshi-Shitennou image on queue per this policy; I don't know where to put it, so I'm storing it here on the talk page until we work that out. --Masamage 21:50, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I also pulled the shot of Zoisite's death, since it wasn't being used to illustrate anything in particular. If anyone wants it, it's still over in Sailor Moon episode 035. I also suggest that the current profile-shot of Kunzite, which is half of Zoisite, be replaced with this one. Look good? --Masamage 22:11, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] crystal

was the crystal Zoisite used called "black" or "dark" crystal because I thorght the black crystal was in Black Moon Clan but in this article it says Black Crystal ♥Eternal Pink-Ready to fight for love and grace♥ 19:22, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I can't remember either. I still haven't seen most of series one in Japanese yet. T_T --Masamage 21:32, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Zoisite's stone is called the "Black Crystal"... In the dub Zoycite would refer to it as "Dark Crystal", "Black Crystal" and "Homing Crystal", but in the Japanese version it is Black Crystal (黒水晶). The later Black Moon Clan has the Crystal with the name of "Evil Black Crystal" (邪黒水晶). ~ Fighter4luv 01:02, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

OMG I forgot about the evil part ♥Eternal Pink-Ready to fight for love and grace♥ 08:02, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] PGSM Images

We still need PGSM Images.... They are so diffrent in PGSM (apart from Jedite) that they need images...--Lego3400: The Sage of Time 15:49, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Not until this Fair Use thing is taken care of. See WT:SM. --Masamage ♫ 15:50, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Romantic Match Ups

Should that be put in? For example, Jadeite said he remembered Mars from a long time ago... when they'd just first met in her act in the manga from her POV. Then she again referred to their past relationship in Casablanca Memories. Then again in the Artbook Volume I that Takeuchi thought everyone would be surprised at the match ups. Then again in Volume 3 there is a reference to Venus and Kunsite being matched up. Many argue it didn't make it to the manga, therefore it's invalid, however how Takeuchi talks about it, it did make it in, and there is evidence of it.

"This is the title page for the conclusion of the first series of Sailor Moon. It had a great deal of impact on the first series. Probably because the four couplings on the right side were very unexpected. I was thinking of love stories of the previous lives of these couples. I'd like to be able to draw that someday..."

i.e. She drew hints of it in the present, thus it was unexpected, but she never drew them in the past like she did for Endymion and Serenity in detail.

Kunsite and Venus is supported by Volume 3, Act 12, Page 165, Frame 2-4
Volume 1 Act 3 Page 108: (Jadeite strokes Rei's hair) Jadeite: -So beautiful. -I've been attracted to her since I first saw her. -This girl.
Casablanca Memories, "She sees the face of Kaidou. It blurs with the face of Jadeite.
"Rei!" he says as he grins evilly. "Even I will really do it!"
It blurs into a large apparition approaching her.
"Stop confusing me!" Rei says. "It's my principle not to look back on the past! Phobos! Deimos!" The two crows fly down in the moonlight. "Many treasures unite! Purify the six roots of perception! Flame, come to me! Evil spirit, begone!!"
Flames surround the woman. Rei drops to her knees.
"Hmph," the woman says. "I thought I would take revenge for Jadeite, but... You're strong."

My principle not to look at the past... why see Jadeite and say that? Thus it did make it in, just not as strongly as Takeuchi-sensei wanted, but she still got her "unexpected" match-ups. --Hitsuji Kinno 16:39, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I think that should go in, especially since it's already present in each of the Guardian Senshi's pages. At the very least they had definite relationships in the musicals. (I'm always blase about adding stuff to this article since the whole thing needs a rewrite anyway...) --Masamage ♫ 00:28, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Correct spelling of Jadeite's japanese name

While ジェイダイト is a valid japanese spelling of "Jadeite" and maybe more accurate in terms of english pronunciation, the alternate spelling ジェダイト is whats actually used in the series. So i changed it. Dead Screem 23:06, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I double-checked in the Materials Collection, and it looks like you're right. Thanks for catching that! --Masamage ♫ 23:11, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Zoisite gender swich

Shoulden't it be mentioned that Zoicite was portrayed as a girl in the english dub? If it's alredy there i didn't see it but i don't think it is. 69.123.126.4 05:15, 14 November 2007 (UTC)Kimitala

It's in the very last sentence under 'Anime' under Zoisite's section. Probably could use more of a mention, but then, this whole article is on the waitlist for being rewritten. --Masamage ♫ 05:47, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why is Zoisite refered as a male?

I am from Germany and in the German Version Zoisite is female. So Why does this text always says "he"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.68.205.88 (talk) 16:23, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

In the original Japanese, Zoisite was an effeminate gay male. Various countries changed him into a heterosexual woman to avoid any controversy over having a gay character in a children's TV show. --Masamage ♫ 19:49, 5 February 2008 (UTC)