Talk:Shimon Peres/Archive 1

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Contents

Alleged Homosexuality

Whoever wrote "he is rumored to be gay" needs to substantiate his statement with a source.

Shimon Peres is not a member of Kadima

he is indeed a great supporter of Ariel Ahron and his new party, but, how strange it would be sound, he is still a member of the Labor Party (Haavoda), now it goes into a legally problem and also turn to discussions in israel.

Ho, please fprgive me abput my poor english, i promise to try to getting better

I understand your English very well. Peres resigned from the Knesset three days ago, on January 17, 2006. He was a member of the Labor-Meimad-Am Ehad faction. He has been replaced by the Labor MK Weizman Shiry. He may be on the Kadima list for next elections, if this is legally feasible. There are some restrictions on quitting one party and joining another immediately; this is why he resigned from the Knesset. Regards, gidonb 14:45, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Maybe now he is

The official Kadima list for the election, published a day or two ago, has Peres on it (as Number 2.) If he is now officially a candidate of Kadima for the Knesset, doesn't that mean he is now a member of that party? This will affect not just this article but a couple of others I have noticed, all of which hedge on whether Peres is a "member," such as saying he is a "supporter of Sharon and Olmert but not a member" or "not officially a member." Isn't he now, officially, a member? I am not sure, exactly, how one becomes a member or non-member of a party in Israel. 6SJ7 16:58, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Technically, Peres is a member of Kadima. You are invited to make all the necessary changes. Please keep in mind however that much of the data on Peres is historical data and so far he was prime minister and minister on behalf of Israeli Labor (in different alliences) and MP of Labor and Rafi. As of now, Kadima should refer only to his current personal alliance. Peres has resigned the Knesset in order to be able to run for the next one representing Kadima. Thank you for offering to make the changes! gidonb 17:08, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Shimon Peres a fighter?

Did Shimon Peres actually participate at any time as a combat soldier during the 1947-1949 Arab-Israeli War? I'm just wondering if he did.

No. Peres never participated as a combat soldier. However, he was instrumental is procuring arms for Israel in 1948/1949 through diplomatic channels in Europe.

Thank you very much for answering my question. I appreciate it.

Intro

I reorganized the intro because it had become sort of a jumble of current and past events, and the fact that he is a former Prime Minsister was getting pushed further and further down. Therefore, I created a one-sentence lead paragraph that makes clear that he is a former PM and current Cabinet member, then a second paragraph dealing with his party status and a third stating when he served as PM and other stuff. As with all current Israeli politicians, other parts of the article also need to be rewritten/edited now that dust has settled from the creation of Kadima, the illness of Sharon and emergence of Olmert, and finally the elections and installation of a Cabinet on May 4. I have edited the intros (and some in the article bodies) for Tzipi Livni and Amir Peretz (and now the intro from Peres) but there are still a lot of Israeli-politics articles that need attention now. 6SJ7 17:11, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Awards and interests

"He is fluent in Hebrew, English, Polish and French."

I believe he is fluent in yiddish as well.--84.228.249.24 02:01, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
"I believe" is not the correct word for an encyclopedia. So, a source is needed. --unpluggged 15:31, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
"It was the dream. I went to a Hebrew school. At our home, we spoke three languages: Hebrew, Yiddish and Russian."

quote from interview with Shimon Peres. reference http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/per0int-1–– User:emily sheffer md

Emigration to Israel

I have made a brief amendment to the intro, where it formerly stated that Peres moved to Israel in 1934. This would have been miraculous, as the state of Israel did not come into existence until 1948! JulesVerne 17:06, 24 January 2006 (GMT)

Nobody said that he moved to the State of Israel. Land of Israel has been existed for at least 3000 years. --unpluggged 15:34, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

GA Review

Quickie review summary now as I don't have much time, but Mr. Peres has been waiting for his turn for quite a bit:

GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    a (fair representation): b (all significant views):
  5. It is stable.
  6. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
    a (tagged and captioned): b lack of images (does not in itself exclude GA): c (non-free images have fair use rationales):
  7. Overall:
    a Pass/Fail:

Overall, the biggest problem with the article is that although it contains a lot of information, it is a nightmare to read due to the lack of sensible structuring (huge lead section that does not really comply with WP:LEAD + a very long section on "political career" consisting of long paragraphs without any subsections that would help navigate through it).

The second issue, which perhaps does not influence readability that much, but is even more grave when it comes to GA reviewing, is the lack of sources for perhaps more than a half of the article's bulk, including statements of controversial nature which are likely to be challenged. I have also found some speculative statements (btw, the "unofficial candidate" thing reeks of WP:CRYSTAL) and ones that can be said to be POV.

I am sorry I cannot go into more detail ATM, but I believe there is quite a bit of work to be done before the article can be renominated. PrinceGloria 20:04, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Name change ?

When and why did he change his name from supposedly Perske to Peres ?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.184.143.196 (talk • contribs).

An anonymous editor changed it. I have been unable to determine which is correct, do you know perhaps?--Doron 11:24, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Update article to reflect presidency

For starters, the infobox needs updating and I'm not too sure how to do it. -ReuvenkT C 12:12, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Uh.. The infobox now says he's both the incumbent prime minister and president. nadav (talk) 12:36, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Keep an eye out

I added Peres's victory to the news portal at Portal:Current events, so everyone should keep an eye out for vandalism if this gets on the main page. nadav (talk) 12:14, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

President

He isn't president yet, the president is still Katzav for another month from now.--Doron 13:09, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

  • That's why I put the infobox criteria to "Succeeding" rather than "succeeded", the function allows for president-elect designations. -- Chabuk [ T • C ] 15:24, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
My feeling is that the photo is a bit too large, so the infobox is out of place. Anyone know how to resize it?--Gilabrand 15:32, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Where he was born

The infobox now states that Peres was born in Belarus. It doesn't matter what the place is called now. If he was born in a small town in Poland, that's what should be in the info box. This is not the place for Russian patriotism (note the flag).--Gilabrand 15:49, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Also, I think there is no need to state his age in parentheses. The birth date is sufficient. Readers can do their own math.--Gilabrand 15:56, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Peres was elected in 1984

In 1984, the Labor Party won a tie with the Likud in the general elections. Peres became prime minister for two years as a direct result of the people`s choice.

  • By definition, you don't "win" a tie. This is the first election he's outright won. --Chabuk [ T • C ] 17:27, 13 June 2007 (UTC)


Does this jew knows Polish Language? After all,he lived here for 20 years.

Still,there is no mention of Polish Language,but there is of hebrew,english and french,even though he most probably speeks Polish Language better.

  • Actually, he moved to Tel Aviv when he was 11, according to the article; there's no particular reason he'd speak Polish. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 02:54, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Well,you knew english by your 11th birthday,didn`t you? I suspect if this man is capable of becoming a president of Israel,he would also been capable of learning a Polish language,by the time he is 11.Even more so,for there was no Israel back in 1923-1934,when he lived in Poland. Lets see,you were born in USA,but your family lives there for less then 500 years.Still,it is highly unlikely that you learned your original language before English.WELL,HIS FAMILY LIVED IN POLAND MOST PROBABLY FOR 1000 OR SO YEARS. So he most definetly knows Polish.

The source in the article indicates he spoke three other languages at home. It's at least unclear that he knows Polish. Perhaps you can find a source to clear it up?--Chaser - T 13:53, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
  • As I said:

    "I was born in a small Jewish shtetl that -- during the two wars, the first and the second it was under Polish control -- but otherwise it was Belarus. Russians. And they hated the Poles. They wouldn't speak the language. The place I was born was a very small place, totally Jewish, and we were living neither in Poland nor in Russia. We were living in Israel from the day I was born, even before emigrating." (Shimon Peres, Academy of Achievement interview, 2003).[1]

    --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 14:16, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, that's why I added that reference, responding to this question. By the way, it doesn't seem like he makes too much of a distinction between things Belarusian and Russian. It's likely perhaps he actually spoke Belarusian as his "Russian" vernacular, but of course we would need a source for that too.--Pharos 23:55, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Many Jews who lived in Poland, especially in shtetls, used mainly Yiddish and spoke Polish very poorly. If he left Poland when he was 11 it is quite probable that he cannot speak Polish anymore. Tsf 01:14, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

But Polish was not actually the language spoken in that part of Poland, anyway (the local vernacular was Belarusian and today that area is part of Belarus). See above.--Pharos 23:59, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

It seems that there is no reliable information about languages he really speaks (or spoke), but one thing is certain whenever he appears on TV and speaks English: he has a strong Hebrew accent which is very different from Polish or (Bela)Russian. Tsf (talk) 11:59, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Why do we need here his name in Arabic?

Why for there's an Arabic spelling of his name? Is he an Arab? No. Does he live in an Arabic country? No. Does his native language is Arabic? No. So it should be removed. --unpluggged 15:39, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

He is the president of all the citizens of Israel, including the Arab citizens. In Israel, the presidency is not a political post. Besides, Arabic is one of the official languages--Gilabrand 16:30, 14 June 2007 (UTC).

Languages Spoken: Needs citation but already cited...???

The second sentence of the "early life" subsection reads: "Peres was raised speaking Hebrew, Yiddish, and Russian." But there is a "citation needed" tag attached to "Hebrew."

The source provided for this sentence (!) clearly says (emphasis added): "At our home, we spoke three languages: Hebrew, Yiddish and Russian." So, why the tag? --Kuaichik 17:45, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Place of birth

The link referring to his town of birth doesn't link anywhere meaningful. Apparently, it is a location in modern Belarus near Valozhyn (Vishniev or something similar). If anybody could locate the exact name and create a stub about the place, it would be great. Valentinian T / C 21:39, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Maybe it's Vishniev [2]. The German Wikipedia article uses the spelling "Wischnewa," saying it was officially in Poland at the time. (Now, of course, it is part of Belarus, but the above link still calls it "Vishniev, Poland" for some reason). --Kuaichik 22:10, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
In the "Achievement Academy" interview, he says he grew up in a small all-Jewish shtetl, but he doesn't mention the name.--Pharos 23:58, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
The Polish version reads: Wiśniewie (obecnie Białoruś, obwód miński, rejon wołożyński) (=Belarus, Minsk Voblast, Valozhyn region), i.e. the westernmost part of Minsk Voblast. The Russian version uses the name Вишнево and a map of Minsk Voblast does indeed have a settlement named Višnevo on the south side of the railway line between Lida and Molodečno (half-way between the two cities) and NW of Voložin. Trouble is that that I don't know if the Belarusian name differs from the Russian one. Valentinian T / C 00:51, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
Peres says it was 100km south of Minsk (full interview).--Pharos 01:44, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
Interesting. Višnevec between Stolbcy and Nesviž? Just a thought. Valentinian T / C 02:02, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
You know, his geography might have been a bit hazy, considering he left at the age of 11 ;) This page has a map and mentions a visit he made back to his hometown in 1992.--Pharos 02:37, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
Sounds like a likely explanation. :) The map you mentioned shows the place indicated by the Polish article (Belarus, Minsk Voblast, Valozhyn region and it matches the town of Вишнево / Višnevo I mentioned as my first guess. It is a former Polish territory, located near the road between Vilnius (NW) and Minsk (SE). The other axis is something like Lida (SW) and Molodečno (NE). Looks like we just need the proper Belarusian name now. Valentinian T / C 16:12, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Plagiarism of this article by Croatian university

I found this PDF at the website of the University of Split oddly familiar. I rather suspect it has something to do with Mr. Peres's recent visit to the university.--Pharos 03:21, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

I believe this is generally okay. See the Wikipedia license at the bottom of the page. 88.153.172.252 13:30, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
If they had attributed it to us, that would have totally appropriate (ideally, they should have preserved the GFDL notice as well, but that's another issue). Unfortunately, they published it as if it were their own work, which is the definition of plagiarism (a university should know better).--Pharos 23:55, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Probable misinformation

"His Brother in law is Tom Hanks." ???? The source of this piece of info is not cited, and I could find nothing else on the WWW that would corroborate it.

Woman picture in the list of books what it is?

I cannot make any sense of the picture of the girl with the curly hair in the list of books. Anyone? YechezkelZilber 19:17, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

What is Shimon_Peres' view on the new situation in Gaza ?

See :Battle_for_Gaza_(2007).

Can someone answer, and complete this article. --Yug (talk) 01:36, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

His new predecessor

Ms. Izak is now officially acting president now that Katsev has resigned. I tried to have that fact mentioned in the article, but somehow the thing went wonky, Shouldn't it be changed to reflect that (the new acting president for two weeks, not the thing going wonky)Ericl 20:47, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

It will be on July 1, when Katsav's resignation takes effect. Itzik has been 'acting president' for the last few months (while Katsav was suspended), now she'll become 'Interim President'. GoodDay 17:00, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Time in politics

The article says that he has been in politics for over 65 years (therefore since age 18 or earlier). This strikes me as the kind of thing that might be exaggerated somewhat. The earliest date given for any kind of participation in politics in the article is 1943. If it stretches back even further than that, let's get a source for a date. Everyking 07:59, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

An article by Amiram Barkat in Haaretz newspaper on June 14, says he was appointed secretary general of Hanoar Haoved Vehalomed youth movement in 1941. This is the reference: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArtStEngPE.jhtml?itemNo=870789&contrassID=2&subContrassID=1&title='Presidency%20rounds%20off%2066-year%20career%20'&dyn_server=172.20.5.5s Gilabrand 08:08, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Question

Any particular reason why it states two dates for his birth, one Gregorian one not? And what is the other date, anyways?

I just removed this, I suppose it might be a reference to his birth date in the Hebrew calendar or something but has no place in the article. Yonatan talk 08:56, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Template talk:IsraelPMS

I hope someone can answer my question over there. Yonatan talk 08:56, 22 July 2007 (UTC)