Talk:Shimōsa Province

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was move. —Nightstallion (?) 09:46, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Title

Shimosa or Shimousa? Both can be in Japanese "lazy" pronunciation. Which will we use? --Nanshu 02:57, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I personally think "Shimousa" is better. Usually, I am against using "ou" to romanize おう, but in this case, we have two kanji, shimo + usa, and "Shimosa" just doesn't seem like an accurate romanization. It's like Minoo... if you use the prettier romaji, you lose part of the name. - Sekicho

下総国 was born as a result of the split of 総国 (Fusa no kuni). Then its name had been changed as follows:

Shimo-tsu-fusa -> Shimo-fusa -> Shimousa

The problem is that the loss of the f was happened at the middle of a word in Japanese (eg. kefu -> keu -> kyou). This means that people considered shimofusa as a single word instead of a compound. Otherwide the f must be preserved. But I changed my mind because some googling suggests that some still call 下総 Shimofusa.

Japanese romanization is more complicated than I expected. The Hepburn romanization system distinguishes what is not dinstinguished in Japanese. Sometime it needs etymological analysis. --Nanshu 02:53, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with that name, but if it's pronounced as Shimoosa (2 syllables), then it's fine as Shimosa. If it's pronounced with three syllables, as I suspect it is because 下 is prounounced "shimo," then it should be written as Shimo-Usa. Exploding Boy 04:03, Jun 16, 2004 (UTC)

If it is "Shimo-Usa", the page should be moved to "Shimo-Usa Province". WhisperToMe 06:33, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

It is Shimo-Usa, I looked it up. I'm going to move this page to that name. Exploding Boy 08:18, Jun 17, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] where did you people find "Shimo-Usa" ??!!

Waiiiiit a minute. Where did you find the name "Shimo-Usa"? I just Googled the name and it only came up six times! ... compared to hundreds of hits for both "Shimosa" and "Shimousa." -- Sekicho 13:21, Jun 17, 2004 (UTC)

I found it right here on this talk page. ;)

The purpose of "Shimo-Usa" is to explain how the name of the province is pronounced. WhisperToMe 02:56, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I don't think it's appropriate to invent a romanization just to show how something is pronounced. Why not say

Shimousa (pronounced shimo-usa) is...

instead of making the article's title all wacky? It's not like we spell Ljubljana in a manner reflective of its pronunciation... Sekicho 19:01, Jun 18, 2004 (UTC)

I said above that romanization needs etymological analysis, but now I correct it to "morphological analysis" to distinguish it from "real" etymological analysis. There is a morphological boundary between "shimo" and "usa," so I think it should be spelled Shimousa. I don't like to invent a new romanization too.

As for the pronunciation, I don't know. My poor native ears indiscriminate both pronunciations. But I think I pronounce it shi-mo-u-sa. --Nanshu 02:23, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC) --Nanshu 02:23, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)

The main difference for the dash was so that one wouldn't confuse it with a wapuro double-o (ou). WhisperToMe 16:26, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Again, the dash is needless, or shouldn't be included. It departs from the romanization standard. Don't invent a new romanization! --Nanshu 02:37, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Why do we still use this weird romanization? This article should be moved to Shimousa Province. --Nanshu 01:01, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, proper Hepburn romanization should be used! Deiaemeth 00:39, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.