Talk:Sharecropping

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e about sharecropping. Limegreen 02:06, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

  • Strong Oppose. See discussion below. DJ Silverfish 20:56, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. Dragons flight 19:54, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Discussion

To my knowledge, this is called sharefarming in Australia. It is probably not the common term in USA, but from a global point of view might be more useful. One advantage is that all "share" agriculture can fit beneath such a title (eg. share-cropping, share-milking). --Lisa 13:03, 3 September 2005 (UTC) ... I just noticed this article was moved from some other title but I don't know what it was moved from --Lisa 13:06, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

The OED dates share-farming only from 1927 and chiefly Aust., and makes it a subentry of share. It gives share-cropping an entry of its own (as share-crop) and date its from 60 years before. I do not see any greater generality; if generality and antiquity are desired, there is the actual European term metayage, which John Stuart Mill used, but which is now nearly obsolete in English. Septentrionalis 22:42, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
Jonathunder, I did several googlefights before I requested the move. But given US dominance of the Internet it is natural that the US agricultural terms would be more common than those used in other English language countries. So not sure that this would be a valid reason to oppose. --Lisa 06:14, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
This is, in short, a relatively recent Australasian regional term. I see no suppport for the claim that it is Central European usage - as opposed to appearing in a NZA text about Central Europe. This move is improper, as violating Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#National_varieties_of_English . Septentrionalis 17:42, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
Actually, the guideline on national varieties of English applies within articles. The relevant rule here for the title is "use the most common name in English" which is clearly sharecropping. If the Google test results were even remotely close we could discuss the limits of the test. But these results are not at all close. Jonathunder 18:02, 2005 September 7 (UTC)
But is it about "the most common name in English", or a consideration of whether a group of similar concepts should be grouped under a superordinate category? Sharecropping does not mean sharemilking. Whereas sharefarming can include bother sharemilking, sharecropping, and any other type of similar practice.Limegreen 00:01, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
Yup, that's clear thinking Limegreen. I think the options are either 1. move sharemilking from here and put it in another article, perhaps include a link in "see also" section -- then possibly another article for sharefarming; or 2. perform this proposed move/rename request. Lisa 05:44, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
I might be trying to go about this the wrong wy. I'm curious to know if sharecropping and sharefarming mean the same thing. Possibly they don't. Maybe it is worth creating a new article titled sharefarming and list sharecropping as a related article, like sharemilking. In any domain well known to Wikipedians there would be such a proliferation of information on such an all-encompassing topic we'd probably need more than one article. Thoughts? Lisa 23:11, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
I support the idea of spinning off sharefarming as a separate article. Sharecropping has significant historical meaning in the US. The term is used to describe not just a kind of farming, but the general social relations in the South from 1865 until after WWII. Calling someone a "sharecropper" is roughly akin to calling that person a hillbilly. While the term can apply to either blacks or whites, it is closely identified with oppression of African-Americans in the Black Belt Region. "Sharefarming" doesn't have these connotations. DJ Silverfish 20:56, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Resolution

We definitely don't have a consensus to rename sharecropping to sharefarming, so let's not. However, as a compromise, I think there is enough support from this discussion to being populating the Sharefarming article with some summary information and links to Sharecropping and Sharemilking. It may largely function as a disambiguation page, but this is important because regardless of google hits, "sharefarming" is a term in it's own right. How much "sharefarming" differs from "sharecropping" remains to be seen. Lisa 03:02, 11 September 2005aq (UTC)

[edit] Sharefarming

Based on the discussion about sharefarming and sharecropping above, I have created an article on sharefarming. It is a kind of parent article of sharecropping and sharemilking. Also, if not for the USA popularisation of sharecropping, I think sharefarming would be the more used term as it is more generic. — User:Donama 02:54, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Globalisation: sharecropping + metayage + other variants

See discussion at Talk:Metayage System. --Mereda 09:20, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

The new edits to the into of sharecropping have removed the fact that it is a form of sharefarming. It needs to be reintroduced in the first line. — Donama 12:55, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree that theoretically sharefarming is a broader term than sharecropping, but it is such a neologism that I am not sure that it rates its own article. After reading what was placed in the sharefarming article, I have only had my opinion confirmed. Bejnar 19:38, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

It's not a neologism just because not everyone uses it. Sharecropping is just as much a neologism but is in use here more because the majority of en: Wikipedia editors are from North America. I never knew the term sharecropping as a child -- it was always called sharefarming. — Donama 00:13, 20 June 2006 (UTC)THIS IS GAY
  • Help*

I have a history report due soon. I think that the information on sharecropping is wonderful. Everyone has to pick a topic and i chose this. I got all the information and more that i needed. I thank whoever made this page. O and by the way, why do people always just say bad, mean things cant they ever say something nice???


new person now...i couldn't find anything i have extra credit due tomarrow and its 10:40 P.M.!!AND I FOUND NOTHING!i am supposed to find what share cropping is(i found that)who came up with it(didn't find)when it started(nope)where it started(nope)and nwhy it started(i made it up)!!!!so i had basically NO help.....and I am sorry if a sound mean but its true soo i dont kno how the person above me found everything for her report!

[edit] Strong POV Problem

This article badly needs a POV tag. The introduction opens not with a description of how sharecropping can help small farm owners who can't afford expensive harvesting equipment, or how it can help workers to afford their equipment by processing other people's land, but with a very negative description of the concept. The first paragraph includes inflammatory words like "exploitative," "serfdom," and "indenture," and the article makes repeated reference to disparities in wealth. In reality (at least in the U.S.), the relative wealth of the two parties is often similar. I had a sharecrop arrangement on my property for five years, and the market value of my property was equivalent to the value of the equipment the sharecropper (he used the term "custom hayer") owned. I don't know enough about the history to rewrite it myself, but I'd like to see all of the negativity moved to a "history" subsection, and the introduction done in a more balanced way that includes modern sharecropping.Gary D Robson 16:39, 15 May 2007 (UTC)