Talk:Share taxi

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[edit] Discussion from Talk:Matatu

Matatus are called mathrees because the swahili word for three is tatu. By simply replacing the Swahili "tatu" for the English "three", typical of sheng, the word changes from matatu to mathree.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.61.57.174 (talk • contribs) 06:17, 19 January 2006

[edit] History merge

Steverwanda did a great job creating a much needed general article from the many small articles that had been started on regional versions of share taxis. In order to keep the edit attribution clear, I have merged the histories from sherut, bush taxi and matatu here, for anyone who is looking at the history and thinks that they're seeing the biggest revert war ever.  ;) Cheers, BanyanTree 15:07, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

BanyanTree -- I'm not sure a history merge was the right approach here (although it'd be a great hassle to fix now), as it confuses the history quite a bit (as you say, it looks like a giant revert war), and it's very hard to tell what some edits actually achieved to the previous article. It's better to simply note where things came from in the edit summaries and perhaps on the talk page. — Matt Crypto 16:40, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi Matt, It hadn't even occurred to me that it would be disputed; I would definitely have brought it up here for discussion if I had. A talk page attribution would have been the only way to do it, as there was no edit summary attribution and the page history basically consisted of Steverwanda and Ezeu so the authorship of much of the content was not visible in the history. Maybe I just haven't read the relevant policy pages or am suffering from copyright paranoia, but is a note on a talk enough to make the article GFDL compliant? - BanyanTree 17:23, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
I hope I didn't come across as too critical -- I don't think it matters a huge amount, and I think the merge was a good idea. Still, I do think it's better in general to keep seperate edit "streams" separate, otherwise the histories get somewhat incoherent. I believe that making sure that a user can find the history and authors of all the content is sufficient for GFDL, so, if the histories hadn't been merged, we could have simply included pointers to the merged articles, and a user could examine the complete histories of the seperate merged-in pages. — Matt Crypto 19:31, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
It looks good. I'd thought something like this was in order for a while (ever since I learned about matatu while working on bush taxi). While I understand Matt's concern over the histories, it's not too difficult to distinguish when contributors were working on different articles; the edits usually come in flurries. It is difficult to figure out which article that editor was working on, though, unless you click through. But I'm glad to see the articles in one place. It'd be nice to see some more sources added for the matatu info and anything else that was merged in here. — BrianSmithson 16:47, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi there... I'm glad the changes I made seem to be acceptable. Sorry if I acted a bit unilaterally - I would have discussed things more, but there didn't seem to be much discussion on most of the various pages, so I assumed nobody was very interested! I initially intended to merge the African ones only, which I know from experience are almost identical and hence don't really warrant separate pages. For those elsewhere in the world I kept the separate article if it seemed to be substantial and merged stub articles (such as the Israeli one) into a subsection of this article. If any of the general facts at the top of the page don't apply to non-African buses then someone should edit appropriately... — Steverwanda 09:39, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recent edits by user:Alanmak

Regarding the recent edits by user:Alanmak ([1] [2] [3] [4]), I don't agree that, for the purpose of this article, the official designation of Hong Kong for international organisations and sport events, namely "Hong Kong, China", nor it's official full name with partial and unusual abbreviation, is relevant and necessary to be used here. See also user:Jiang's edit summary. The English word "country " is not always synonymous with sovereign state". — Instantnood 19:34, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

I would agree with that - saying Hong Kong, China could actually be misleading as it could be interpreted as a list of countries. I'd have thought most people understand what 'Hong Kong' means, and which country it belongs to, and if they don't then they can always click on the link to find out! — Steverwanda 09:00, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
That's pretty true. — Instantnood 22:08, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

I'd just like to say that the slow-motion edit war going on here is really silly. What is the problem with adding the word "territory" to the top of the chart? My own personal understanding of the word "country" in this sense is roughly synonymous with "nation", which Hong Kong is not. Why can't we add one word and be done with it? The edit war has nothing at all to do with share taxis. — BrianSmithson 19:49, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

There are some dozens of countries which are not sovereign states. Nation is another concept. — Instantnood 22:09, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
My point isn't to debate the meaning of country, state, nation, etc. My point is that by simply adding one word to the chart, Alanmak will stop reverting, and I'll be happy. It seems like such a tiny change to make to keep the peace. — BrianSmithson 22:33, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Consensus building through discussions is important to Wikipedia, but that doesn't mean we've to sacrifice accuracy and neutrality. Further, what I can imagine is that territories which are not countries will start appearing on the list. — Instantnood 07:59, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
That's why I'm discussing this and not simply reverting to Alanmak's version. I'm not sure how his version is inaccurate or non-neutral. It seems to be more accurate to not refer to Hong Kong as a country. — BrianSmithson 17:52, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
The English word country is not necessarily always synonymous with sovereign state. At most time they're not, but it's very true that since forty years or so ago sovereign states always make up the majority on such lists. — Instantnood 18:15, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Where do you get your statistics that most of the time country is not synonymous with soveriegn state? The dictionary disagrees with you; look at which definition is given as #1. Why don't we change it to say "nation or territory" or even "location"? — BrianSmithson 21:44, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
[5], [6] #1, [7] #1 and #2b. Nation is something else. Territory and location are much broader, and would make the list much longer than we might expect. — Instantnood 09:23, 26 February 2006 (UTC) (modified 19:19, 26 February 2006 (UTC))
Your links only serve to muddy things further (citing another Wikipedia article is hardly convincing; the second supports my viewpoint; the third supports yours). And like I said, I don't care what the difference is between country, nation, and sovereign state. That is something for those relevant articles to sort out. The question here is clarity. If you ask a random person "What countries have you been to?" They are not going to say "Oh, I went to Hong Kong, and the year before that I was in West Africa." These places are not considered countries by the average Joe. If you refuse to compromise on this, we can pursue another method of dispute resolution. — BrianSmithson 14:38, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
Edit: I just saw that the article currently says "Country/Territory". Are you okay with this change, then? It hasn't been changed for the past two days, so I'm a little confused. :) — BrianSmithson 14:40, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
It's never black and white, and it's never surprising to find a dozen or so that are not sovereign states on a list of certain figures sorted by country. I object " country / territory ", for that's implying country and sovereign state are synonymous. It would also include many territories which are not countries. You may also be interested to take a look at how the issue is handled in the subcategories (and "sub-subcategories") under category:categories by country. — Instantnood 19:19, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
Whatever. I've got bigger battles to fight. This is going to create a large disconnect for many, many readers for whom "country" and "sovereign state" are synonymous. I think insisting on "country" is not serving our readers at all. But like I said, I don't have time to continue a slow-motion edit war over it. Yay for Hong Kong! — BrianSmithson 17:45, 12 March 2006 (UTC)


Two points here: Why don't you just call the geo category "Place" and let it go at that. And for those of you who are transportatin heads, you will be aware that Hong Kong has long had a rather unique transportatoin profile. Shared taxis being part of it. Moreover, it's strange that you people who are ostensibly interested in making better known a cool and important form of daily transport, allow yourslves all of a suddent to become grave StatesPeople. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ericbritton (talk • contribs) 17:19, April 23, 2006 (UTC).
FYI, we do have such a list. See its content and how it's titled. — Instantnood 20:57, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] International coverage

Congratulations! You are off to a great start here, and this is indeed an important topic which has its full place in WP. For the time being the weaker links that need attention are:

• Latin America (a lot going on there)
• Asia
• The public policy interface – including links to sustainable transportation and the new mobility agenda.

As anyone who has ever used them, shared taxis are a great way to get around and more often than not tend to pop up in an environment where the planners and policy makers have failed to meet people’s legitimate demands. Is there a lot that’s wrong with these systems at their worst. You bet! But in virtually every case, there is something that can be done about it. And should be!

In an attempt to further strengthen this fine start, I am inviting colleagues from the New Mobility Agenda ‘idea factory’ at http://www.newmobility.org and the Sustran list at sustran-discuss@egroups.com which offers terrific coverage of transport in Asia to pitch in and help us complete this world inventory. As to how it fits in with public policy, we have recently set up an open forum at http://www.xtransit.org/ the members of which are also being invited to pitch in here as well. ericbritton 11:50, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] US or British English?

Any opinions on this? I think it's a mixture a the moment, though a lot of the main blurb was written by Brian Smithson in the Bush taxi article so uses US English. The article covers the Jitney, a US vehicle, but also refers extensively to matatus, dala-dalas etc. which operate in former British colonies and hence use British English so it could go either way. Steverwanda 10:37, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Did I write it in AmE? It should have been in BrE, as that's the type of English preferred in most of Africa. I have no problem with changing over where needed. — BrianSmithson 13:34, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
Just the double l in travelling. Steverwanda 15:56, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
I reckon it should'nt be an issue, English or American, as long as we spell right. I was thinking about the artilce cornmeal, that we should do to it as we have done to this one – but if BrE vs. AmE is an issue, then we'll have a problem. By the way, see Talk:Maize#Why isn't this called CORN?.--Ezeu 01:48, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Operation section

I think this needs some change as it stands - the first paragraph in the 'along the route' subsection contains information about the pricing structure, luggage regulations and departure times, which aren't to do with what happens along the route. My idea was to try and separate information about what actually happens when the vehicle is loading and setting off from more general stuff such as its ownership and pricing. Would it be feasible to have two sections broadly along those lines?

Also, there is obviously a difference in systems between 'ticketing' buses and the sort we have here in Rwanda, where you just get on the bus without purchasing a ticket (even at the taxi park) and pay the conductor when you get off. Probably need to generalise the entry in 'Operation' and add more specific information in the Features in individual countries section. — Steverwanda 16:10, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

The problem with separating all pricing into one section is that people often pay at the gare (those who board at the original location) while others pay en route. That's why we've got two pricing sections at the moment, and I personally think it is more logical that way. As for individual countries being different, that is of course correct. But I don't know if further Balkanisation is a good idea. Why not simply add a note that "In many countries this, but in other countries that"? That said, the "Operation" section is written with bush taxis specifically in mind. I have no idea how relevant the info is for other areas. — BrianSmithson 16:16, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
OK, that sounds good. However, the stuff about payment in the first paragraph of 'Along the route' doesn't refer to what happens along the route. Maybe general info about pricing (the government, road conditions etc plus a note of the two systems) should be in one section, then a small part in 'Along the route' about passengers who actually do pay along the route? — Steverwanda 16:58, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
Ah, I see what you mean. What about just dropping the "Along the route" heading down a paragraph? Then the pricing at the gare stuff is still in the section that talks about gares, er, whatever they're called outside Cameroon. The only remaining note about pricing goes with people boarding en route and their potential arguments with the conductor (usually called the "small boy" in Cameroon). — BrianSmithson 17:50, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WP:LAME

The country/state/region issue should soon qualify for Wikipedia:Lamest edit wars ever, so keep it up. --Ezeu 19:03, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Remarks by user:Alanmak

Re: " Please stop pushing your pro-separatist or pro-independence POV. " [8] - It's nonsense. Calling anywhere country is far from being separatists or independence advocators. Country ≠ sovereign state. Please justify the accusation, or else please stop. — Instantnood 20:41, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removed info on matatus

The following sounds really suspicious, and as it was unsourced information from an anonymous contributor, I've removed it for now:

Matatus are popular with the younger crowd, and are linked with youth and rebellion. The more popular ones play current hit music through loud expensive speakers, have trendily dressed touts and drivers, and the vehicles themselves are "pimped up" with elabate paint jobs, spinning rims, fancy head and taillights etc.

Can anyone comment one way or the other on this information's validity? — BrianSmithson 13:13, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Definitely not true in July 2006 around Nairobi and Narok. As far as I know, the current text about regulation in January 2004 is accurate. Speaking of regulation, I also recall they're soon to stop issuing licenses to 15-passenger matatus in Nairobi due to congestion; only 25-passenger matatus and grandfathered 15-passenger ones will be allowed. -Slamb 20:10, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Just a remark

In Estonia, shared taxis also exist (mainly in the capital, Tallinn, for urban transport) and they are locally (in Estonian) called "liinitakso" (official name) or "marsruuttakso" (old name but still widely used) or "marsa" (slang name). Unfortunately I do not have the skills nor the time to edit this page correctly to add Estonian information. It'd be nice if anyone who is more skilled than I am in editing Wikipedia could do that. Thanks, or sorry for probably posting in the wrong place.

Done.--GagHalfrunt 20:47, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] confusing

"Share taxis are an important form of mobility (and job creation) in many parts of the world but are by and large poorly understood and not well integrated into the overall transportation projects of cities and regions."

What is meant by "are poorly understood"? That's not written properly, I suppose. Does it mean that they are poorly understood by scientists? users? authorities? First world citizens? I think they're a completely understandable service, especially where many people don't have a car, or money to buy fuel easily.. Also, the countries which rely on this service do have regulations (why is it said that it is harder to regulate this kind of service compared to a taxi? In most countries these vehicles are clearly marked, grouped by route / area of coverage, and must follow a special kind of regulation, even if they're private). Moreover, I don't understand why is it stated that share taxis must be old and polluting.. On the contrary, since they are used for a job, they must comply with extra specifications to the transit authorities, compared to any citizen's car (even if a country didn't have a specific law for private transport, which is unlikely, it must regulate that any service provided by a legally recognized company or individual be safe to clients). I don't know if it would be better or worse for the environment if every one of the 3 passengers plus driver on a share taxi drove a separate car (let's say it's not carrying the full load of 4 passengers, but also if it constantly carries two or less, then probably the taxi will be appointed to a different zone over time). Perhaps, since the share taxi spends part of its time driving with no passengers, there's no difference for everyone to travel in a different car. But I don't think that share taxi networks have to be especially 'old and polluting' when compared to other options. It may sound like I am defending this way of transport (I don't actually like having to share space with anyone), but I'm just trying to say that the article either exaggerates it's views or actually doesn't explain itself correctly. Share taxis have (depending on the region) some advantages too, and just being shared doesn't turn a taxi older, but it does make it cheaper. note: please pardon me if I made any mistakes in writing or perhaps seem to be speaking too 'aggresively'.. My english is far from perfect, and because of that, I struggle a bit with words trying to express myself 200.7.17.207 09:06, 26 November 2006 (UTC) user:guruclef

I agree with the above comments. My understanding is that in many parts of the world these services are completely unregulated and operated by owner/drivers and the vehicles may indeed be old and polluting and not be understood or respected by authorities or even be legal but that is not the central point, which is that they are shared and have more flexible operation than a bus. They are clearly very different culturally from a centrally organised and operated bus service. However, in the UK there is a strong policy interest in significant role that shared services such as these can perform and a number of authority-led services have been introduced, and recent legislation now allows taxi drivers to legally offer shared services. I will edit the introduction to make this cleared in the next few weeks unless people disagree User:PeterIto 03:27 29th Oct 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Grand Taxis and Petit Taxis in Morocco

Last year I added details of the Petit Taxi and Grand Taxi in Morocco to this page. Both of these were removed by someone saying that these were normally private. I have now checked my facts with a Moroccan and on the web for more evidence to backup my claim. Can I ask someone with a longer track record to add this information to the page.

Here are some references:

"The other option is to take a Grand Taxi. The entire taxi cost Dirham 480 to hire from Marrakech to Quarzazate. If you are willing to squeeze into the back of the taxi with three others, while having 2 sit in the front seat, it will cost 80 Dirham each. The taxi will only leave once it is full." http://www.cameltrekking.com/erg-chebbi-directions.html

"Around places like Merzouga and Rissani you don't always have to wait for a grand taxi to fill up with 6 people. Many times I would buy only 2 or 3 seats of the journey and the driver would agree to take me" http://www.lonelyplanet.com/letters/afr/mor_pc.htm

"To get to M'hamid, the last town before the desert begins, you have to get a shared taxi ("grand taxi) from Zagora, which costs 25 dirham per passenger.

It may take quite some time for a shared taxi to fill up with 6 passengers. If you're in a hurry, pay 150 dirham for all seats, and maybe an extra 50 to pursuade the driver to leave immediately." http://www.triotours.com/faq/ma/to-zagora.htm

"You can also flag down a taxi anywhere along the road. If there's any space, the driver will stop and take you in. When it's full, the driver will wave at you apologizingly." http://www.triotours.com/faq/ma/travel-around-taxi.htm

"It's common for a petit taxi to pick up another passenger along the road when there is a free seat. The driver will stop to check where the new passenger is going. He'll only take him or her in if their destination is on your route or involves only a small detour. The new passenger will pay part of the fare, of course." http://www.triotours.com/faq/ma/travel-around-taxi.htm

Note that I have included text from other websites, but only to validate the claim (and only on this discussion page). When this issue has been resolved this note can be removed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by PeterIto (talk • contribs) 21:29, 1 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Carros Públicos

Document seems to be locked, on chart on right in Puerto Rico please add "Carros Públicos" thanks – Moebiusuibeom 19:45, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

  • I have now added it for you (PeterIto 08:26, 31 October 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Dolmuş (Turkey)

I couldn't get the dolmuş - minibus differentiation. It's said in the article that dolmuşes are more comfortable, expensive and rare, opposed to the cheaper and abundant "minibus"es. This sounds like the writer confused dolmuşes with ordinary taxicabs, or at least with the so-called taksi-dolmuş (a regular 5-7 seater passenger car working with the same "departs when full" principle), which had its day in the 70s and 80s but is almost inexistent today (Bursa is the only example i know having taksi-dolmuşes) 88.232.177.54 16:40, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jitney's in the US

"The first U.S. jitneys ran in Los Angeles, California in 1914. By 1915, there were 62,000 nationwide. Local regulations, demanded by streetcar companies, killed the jitney in most places. By the end of 1916, only 6,000 jitneys remained"

So this article is telling me that there was the first jitney in 1914, 62,000 BY 1915, and 6,000 at the end of 1916. I don't think this is even remotely true. Christopher Reuter 20:28, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

That is what the reference says. I have googled, and several other articles corroborate the reference used here. There is mention of what is called the "Jitney Episode", the "Jitney Phenomenon" or the "jitney craze that swept the nation" in 1914-1915, which apparently saw Jitney services spring up in nearly every major US city. The figure 62,000 is mentioned in a couple of places, and that indeed the number of jitneys grew to that number within two years. There are also several mentions that the "episode" enseminated in Los Angeles. [9], [10], [11], [12], [13]. [14] --Ezeu 23:33, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] School Bus in the US

I'm not sure what that is doing in the list. Although you can ride on a School Bus in the boonies (not sure if that was legal even there and then, but no one made a fuss) and some places have special regulations for seniors and people with disabilities, I don't think it's appropriate to list it in this context. As far as I know most places have regulations that school bus operators may NOT take anyone but schoolkids. Otherwise I think there would be a huge mess with insurance. Tourists looking for a shared ride are certainly not well advised to go asking for a School Bus. If there are other interpretations s.o. should write a paragraph on it, otherwise I'd vote for taking it out of the list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.51.15.15 (talk) 04:59, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree that the School Bus does not seem to belong here as it is not generally available to the public. Could someone from the US remove it or justify its inclusion! User:PeterIto 03:14 29th Oct 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Should Paratransit be included in this article?

From my reading of the article paratransit, it is a sort of Share Taxi and should be included in the name list for the US. Can someone who knows the US better please comment and add it if appropriate?User:PeterIto 03:27 29th Oct 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Should Texxi be included?

Texxi is the brand name for shared taxi service offer by a UK company. The service is neat, but is not well known within the UK and is certainly not ubiqitous and feels out of place. Possibly a general section on the use of IT to support Share Taxi may be appropriate within the article. I will modify the entry in a few weeks unless people argue for retaining it here and add a section about Information Technology modern role.User:PeterIto 03:49 29th Oct 2007 (UTC)

I have now generalised the Texxi article and just linked to them at the end PeterIto (talk) 23:32, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tightening up the definition of a Share Taxi

To my mind the central aspects of a Share Taxi is that it is a system where members of the public who do not know each other can share a chauffered vehicle simultaneously and where the vehicle is not required to follow a fixed route to a fixed schedule. I understand that some Share Taxis run on fixed routes but not to fixed timetables, some run 'semi-fixed' routes and some run constrained routing and timetabling. Unless people disagree I will update the initial paragraph to reflect this in a few weeks.User:PeterIto 03:49 29th Oct 2007 (UTC)