Talk:Shaka Labbits

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Please note that the thread below is a result of user Drini not fully understanding what my original note meant. If you also do not understand my note, please let me know so that I can explain the issue in a more indepth way. Basically, all titles should be displayed EXACTLY as they appear on CDs, Books, and other official media (poor grammer, unique style [such as on-off caps, lowercase, run-on wording etc), symbols, caps... and so on should not be "corrected"). For example, if the official title is "SUPer Gravatttaion probLEMy" this SHOULD NOT be changed to "Super Grave Problem" or anything other than the OFFICIAL way. Thank you for reading. -- NatsukiGirl\talk 19:49, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

  • Actually, since this is an English language article, capitalization, punctuation and grammar must conform to English language rules. Spylab 18:08, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Actually, since these are OFFICIAL titles of works you MUST write them the original and OFFICIAL way they were ment, regardless of grammar. For example, the title of the novel "I, Robot" CANNOT be changed to "I am a Robot" because that is NOT the title of the book! End of story, case closed. -- NatsukiGirl\talk 18:51, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
    • Nobody is suggesting the alteration of an article title like you suggest with "I, Robot". The point being argued is not about changing punctuation marks (see Hear'Say - non standard punctuation when unique is entirely acceptable). Rather the point in question is regarding the typography of the article title (not how a title may appear within an article). In an attempt to clear things up a bit I'm going to quote from the Wikipedia Manuals of style:

" Titles of songs, albums and other media that are not in English, or are in a non-standard variety of English, should follow ordinary rules of capitalization and punctuation for that variety. This guideline does not supersede other Wikipedia:Naming conventions."

Other Wikipedia naming coventions being:

"In band names and titles of songs or albums, unless it is unique, the standard rule in the English language is to capitalize words that are the first or the last word in the title and those that are not conjunctions (and, but, or, nor, for), prepositions (in, to, over), articles (an, a, the), or the word to when used to form an infinitive. Do not replicate stylized typography in logos and album art, though a redirect may be appropriate (for example, KoЯn redirects to Korn (band))."

Which seems pretty clear to me. Stylized typography (symbols such as stars and arrows, complete capitalisation etc) are out, although redirects are acceptable and should be used in these cases. You use below the album Exploring of the Space as an example of how stylized typography should be followed. However, on my copy of that same CD, the title is written entirely in capitals, as are all the track titles and as are all the lyrics. Clearly, if there are different releases using different typography this demonstrates the unreliability of such stylized typography and is presumable one of the reasons why the current naming covention eschews them. If you do wish to propose a new naming convention, you can do it here. So in summery then: titles within the article; knock yourself out - use symbols, capitalisation (if you can be sure there is one definitive release of a given item). Article title: symbols, capitalisation etc is a no. Hope this helps your understanding of the current Wiki convention! ^^ --ShizuokaSensei 08:43, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
I was never referring to the article titles. I was referring only to the people who went to the discography portion of the article and changed the spelling and grammar of single and album names, therefore making it impossible for people to run a search on a single or album name and get to this page. -- NatsukiGirl\talk 21:14, 17 September 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Comment

As the creator of this page I must note something very important for future editors of this page (also try to observe this for any non English speaking band or author... etc): If you see a single, album, dvd, concert, or book title that contains poor grammar, please consider that even though the English spelling or grammar may be incorrect, that it still may actually be the official title. For example, the album "Exploring of the space" is OFFICIALLY spelled and written in this way... only the first E is capped, and the grammar is the way it is. It does mean "exploration of space", however, it is written "Exploring of the space" in English on the album cover, and thus must be written this way in the listing. If someone is searching for the single, and cannot find it the official way... then what good is wiki? As the creator and a huge fan of this particular artist I write the titles the official way along with the japanese text, OR I at least have checked new additions for official correctness. Please do not tamper with titles unless you have found hard evidence that the title has been written incorrectly from the official spelling. In the case of "Exploring of the space", all one must do is observe the picture of the album on the official page which is linked in the article at the bottom. Please help keep wikipedia encyclopedic and correct! Thank you. -- NatsukiGirl\talk 11:21, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

also note, some OFFICIAL japanese titles are titled in all CAPS (or with stars and hearts or other "non-letter/number characters) this is NOT a mistake, please leave them like this. -- NatsukiGirl\talk 04:09, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
Well, can you provide arguments on why should we break the convention? why not putting redirects in the all uppercase titles? The article text could use uppercase, but I don't see compelling arguments for changing the convention of the title. Also, for the "people wil lsearch for the upper case title", well, that's what the redirects solve. So far I haven't seen a discussion (perhaps you can point it to me) and since there's no consensus yet, I suggest not to change albums titles to uppercase (as in AROUND THE WORLD from the existing titles). -- ( drini's page ☎ ) 04:16, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
I already answered this question on the YUKI talk page. But I guess now I have to run around and post the answer... provide me with a list of where you replied like this so I can run around and answer them all for everyone. Basically an official title should NEVER be changed simply because someone has a different stylistic opinion about it. If you want to get rid of the caps take up th argument with record lables and the artist themselves. The best example is the YUKI single "joy" verse the YUKI album "JOY." Case closed. -- NatsukiGirl\talk 19:33, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
Except that you didn't stating your point clearly (that you were talkign about article text and not article name) was causing other editors to move articles changing their titles. -- ( drini's page ☎ ) 20:17, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Actually, since this is an English language article, capitalization, punctuation and grammar must conform to English language rules. Spylab 18:08, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
You cannot change the OFFICIAL title of a work just because it has poor grammar. If you alter an OFFICIAL title you are being unencyclopedic and preventing people from finding and knowing the OFFICIAL title of a work. -- NatsukiGirl\talk 18:48, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
The typesettings used on album covers (and this is not restricted to merely Asian artists - examples can be seen from all continents) are far too unreliable to be used in an encyclopedia. This is the Wikipedia naming convention on musical releases has been set the way it has. If an album appears with it's name all in upper case on the sleeve that is no reason to list it as such on Wikipedia. In these cases a redirect to the article title which conforms with Wiki guidelines will suffice. 219.112.189.202 04:26, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
It is not only symbols and caps that I am concerned with, it also faulty grammar and spelling. If the title of an album is "mechine it tyming bamb" this should, under NO CIRCUMSTANCE be changed to "the machine is a time bomb"... because that is NOT the official title. -- NatsukiGirl\talk 21:06, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Like I mentioned above, I don't think anyone is suggesting changing the titles of albums if they happen to contain faulty grammar. ShizuokaSensei 05:59, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
I understand the limitations of using all caps as article titles, but on a listing of titles, all symbols and caps, or lower case, or alternating cap/lower casing should remain intact. -- NatsukiGirl\talk 01:08, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ska Punk?

While checking out other stuff for this article I was suprised to see S.L. defined as ska-punk in their introduction. Ska-pop-rock maybe (if such a genre exists) but while S.L. clearly have ska influnces, a listen to some of their more recent releases shows some of their ska leanings replaced with more straight forward pop/rock, and what punk sylings they may have had earlier in their history are certianly all but gone. It's a pretty optimistic stretching of the definition of punk to label them as such in the info-box. I suggest a re-classification as a J-Rock band with the relevant influences of pop and ska cited. ShizuokaSensei 10:57, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

There is a ska punk genre, I can go find a source or definition, but by all common sense there is a fusion for every type of music out there. The original definition of punk, btw, is that it's not so much a "sound" as an "idea" (for example, the Misfits and the Ramones are both punk bands, wth two completely different sounds). If any group of people, untrained, grab up some instruments and start playing, this is considered punk... if they have a rock sound, it's punk rock, if they have a metal sound, it's metal punk (or punk metal), if they have a ska sound, it's ska punk... and so forth. -- NatsukiGirl\talk 01:12, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
We should consider genre changes though... for example, if this band moves away from their current sound into pure pop, or pure rock, we should then say "the poprock band, formerly punk" or whatever it happens to be. Since the original sound is part of the complete discography, we would describe each of their genres used, past and present, when introducing the band in an comprehensive instance, such as wiki. -- NatsukiGirl\talk 01:14, 2 May 2007 (UTC)