Talk:Shahidka

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Contents 1 Origin of the name "Black Widow" 2 We're being quoted 3 Removing Arabic script template 4 Brides of Allah

[edit] Origin of the name "Black Widow"

I am starting to doubt that this name is Russian or Chechen in origin, as is at least suggested here. The following link tells me otherwise: [1]

1994, when no one in Chechnya had ever heard of a woman suicide bomber. --Pan Gerwazy 19:56, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

"Palestinian who joined the Lebanese-based pro-Iranian Hizbullah movement after her husband and son, both members of the Abu Nidal terrorist group, were killed by Israeli forces four year ago." Then the whole article is wrong. Should be changed or renamed to shahidka. ("And they were wrapped with suicide belts and they carried guns, two women, shahidka, that's what Russians call them, martyrs." [2])

The question is of course whether this article should only refer to the Chechen female suicide bombers. I am fairly sure that "Black Widow" is rarely used in Russia - if it is (and in English!), it is because a westerner is present who needs to be convinced about a link between Chechen terrorists and Al Qaeda. Shahidka is the word normally used, though sociologists and historians appearing on NTV may use "Brides of Allah". Outside Rusia, the situation is different. I suppose the image of those black-clad women in the theatre was so strong on the mind of many that most people in the West (except Jews and people form the Russian diaspora) now think that "Black Widows" are originally Chechen. I am sure I recently read a newspaper article in which a female suicide bomber in the Middle East was called a "Black Widow" but with the added text "like the Chechen women at the Moscow theatre".

Note that not all Palestinians are muslims, there were even groupings which consisted almost exclusively of Christians (these groups amalgamated with Al Fatah). Since the participation of women is still a bit too much to swallow for a lot of muslim men (remember how even in 2004 a Maskhadov website still denied the existence of female suicide bombers?), I suppose the first female Palestinian "terrorists" may have been Christian. Another argument not to switch to shakhida just like that.

So, I would not switch to "shakhida" too fast, but mention the origin of the term, and explain that most people in the West think exclusively of Chechen women now. And that the normal word in Russian is shahidka, but the expression "Brides of Allah" is a stylistic equivalent of "Black Widows" and was coined by ... etc --Pan Gerwazy 19:29, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

As for the viewer reactions, they were dressed in a Middle Eastern burkas for a purpose. Whatever show they meant in Moscow (for their Arab sponsors?), no one dresses like this in Caucassus. Other than posing for cameras and looking uber-Islamic, they had no practical purpose (fake bombs, no training). Also some spoke to hostages in Moscow they don't really mean to die. Previously, shakhidkas wore a normal clothes and drove a real vehicular bombs (one on foot with a grenade bundle on her own initiative). It was weird and for show only (after all, it was a theatre). --HanzoHattori 18:51, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] We're being quoted

... by chechnya-sl [3].

Hm ... I wonder where she got the idea, however. Such expressions do not usually come out of thin air. They have predecessors, origins, like "Black Widow". --Pan Gerwazy 00:08, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removing Arabic script template

"Shahid" is an Arabic word (شهيد), but -ka is a Slavic ending. I doubt whether the whole form "Shahidka" is very commonly written in Arabic script... AnonMoos 14:52, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Brides of Allah

Brides of Allah - It's book contains many doubtful data --Mega programmer