Talk:Shahada

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(elpincha 05:41, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC) Removed previous questions: one was re-written below, the other became irrelevant following an edit)

Isn't it lame and value-less to re-translate the Greek translation back into English? Just asking. elpincha 07:18, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Not in my opinion; the interesting part is the translation of "Allah" as "the one god". - Mustafaa 18:53, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Mustafaa and others - a few things: The date on the translation, why can't it be more precise? Also: by that time, Greeks were already Christians, so monotheism would not be that revolutionary to them (unless already caught up in those nice pre-filioque controversies). So, is it that interesting? Last: shouldn't the Arabic text of the shahada be "Ashahadu an (etc.)" instead of the shorter version in the article? elpincha 05:41, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
In some parts of the Islamic world, it's rather controversial, and has been for some time, whether the Arabic word "Allah" should be translated into local languages (as is typically done in Persian and Urdu) or left untranslated, as I think is typically done in Turkish (because the translation, unlike the Arabic, might be pluralizable, gender-changeable, etc.) In the context of this debate, it's quite interesting to see what they thought back in the first century AH. However, upon consideration, that point may be more interesting for the Allah article than for this one, so feel free to delete it if you want. The date is because it mentions al-Walid, ie al-Walid I; I don't know how they know it's not al-Walid II, but I haven't seen the original book describing it, just the link. As for the "Ashhadu an" business, it could contain it, certainly, but I don't think it has to. - Mustafaa 16:24, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Shema Yisrael link

Good, but isn't some context required? For starters, you're venturing out of Islam. Also note that, when used as battle cry or dying words, the Islamic equivalent to Shema would be the takbeer. elpincha 18:49, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

  • I think I've improved the context.--Pharos 03:46, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Comment added by new editor

The information provided here is worth revered as reliable information. but here is something to be considered. I, as an Afghan Muslim have a commenets in this regard. The wording of Shahad is consist of one more word such as "wa". the actual Dari wording is as follow so the English shall be corrected besed on that. لا اله الاالله محمد رسول الله (moved by Zora)

he is saying we should drop the wa in our version. Is this right? Or is this some kind of Muslim "filioque"? dab (ᛏ) 17:35, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
He is right . There is no وَ ( wa ) , similarly there is no and in the middle of God & Muhammad . In romanisation , correct pronounciation of llāha is llāhu , & rasūlu llāhi is pronounced as rasūlu llāh ( Vovel isnt pronounced at the end of sentence).
Any source for the sufi claim , never heard of it . Farhansher 20:11, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
I think you messed up the i`rab now. I thought illa takes the accusative, hence llaha? Also, the final i is correct as Romanization (genitive), even if you drop it in pronunciation (it should be written, just like the kasra is written; romanization is not IPA). dab (ᛏ) 21:36, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Allah/God again

Jackorlando, "Allah is the god of Muhammed, Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Noah and Adam" -- this is precisely what "God" is used to refer to in English. Arabic: "Allah", English: "God" (if you like, Singular God, ho theos monos). ok? See Allah for a discussion of this. I wish you would read up the information we have already, before reiterating very old discussions. See also Talk:Allah, God#Quranic_definitions_of_God. dab (ᛏ) 17:28, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

I would be really happy and relieved if somebody with good English and Arabic reviews this whole page. Because I've found several mistakes in Shahadah section. There is mistake even on main page for Islam. I am not good at Arabic writing, So, I'd give just one example:

"lā ilāha illā-llāhu muhammadun-r-rasūlu-llāh" must be translated in English as

"There is no God but Allah and Muhammed is the Messenger of Allah"

And " 'Ash-hadu 'an laa'i-laa-ha 'il-lal-laa-hu wa 'ash-ha-du 'anna mu-ham-ma-dan 'ab-du-hoo wa ra-soo-luh"

Should be translated as "I I testify that there is no God but Allah,And I(also)testify that Muhammad (Sallallaho-Alaihe-Wa-Sallam) is Allah's worshipper and messenger"

The shahadah is (transliteration) 'Ashadu-an laa ilaha illallaah. Wa ashadu anna Muhammad ar-Rasulullah'. There are many translations of this and the most common and most contraversial debate is over the translation of the word 'ilaha'. This is most often translated as 'god' or 'deity'. But a more accurate translation of the word is 'deity worthy of worship'. This would translate the shahadah to- 'I bear witness, there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah. And I bear witness, that Muhammad is the the messenger of Allah'. This makes sense of the Shahadah (and negates claims of groups who join partners in worship of Allah/God) and fits into Islam's charachteristic of 'negation and affirmation (/exception)', which is found on many occasions throughout the Qur'aan. http://www.islamtomorrow.com/9points.htm, provides a good explanation of the whole shahadah. Muhammaduddeen 22:54, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure what disagreement is being discussed above, but it seems to me the English translation should be, "no God but God," etc., no? (As noted above, "God" being the English translation of the Abaric word "Allah," used by Arabic speaking Christians and Jews as well as Muslims.) Paxfeline 12:44, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

overly literally, "no god but the god", but with the English convention of "the single god" -> "God" we get "no god but God" which conveys the meaning perfectly well. dab (ᛏ) 07:57, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
Re English translation of "La ilah ila Allah". My understanding is this: "There is no God (indetermined, without article) but (the) God (determined, with article). Therefore it is customarily translated as "There is no God but Allah".
And because Allah is special Allah is the only word in Arabic written with two L instead of L with Shadda --Soylentyellow 00:05, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I think it's sensible to not translate the word 'Allah', as it uniquely identifies the Islamic god. This is clear and understandable to everyone. Similar with "Allah-u-Akhbar", which means "Allah is the greatest" (or "Allah is greater"). An additional problem with translating into 'God' is its implicit connection to the Judeo-Christian tradition. Allah has always been the top god of the Ka'aba, there is no need to conceal this.

  • Actually, Allah is just the word for God in Arabic. Arab Christians said Allah long before Islam.--Thomas.macmillan 21:06, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Messenger vs. Prophet

In Arabic, prophet is "nabii" ("nabiyyun," "an-nabiyyu"). "Rasuul" ("rasuulun," "ar-rasuulu") means "messenger." From the same root comes "risaalah" or "message." Hence the "shahaadah" says that Muhammad is "the Messenger of God."

Nitpick (no one will really care anyway): there would be no definite article ("al") in front of "rasuul" despite the term being definite; this is because "rasuul" is the first term of an "iZaafah" construction, and the first term, which is by default and by definition definite, does not take the article. So, "rasuulu-llaah" would mean "the messenger of God" whereas "rasuulun lillaah" would mean "a messenger of God". Kitabparast 03:43, 12 January 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Flags?

Doesn't the Flag of Iraq also carry the Shahada? Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 20:22, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

The flag of Iraq says Allahu Akbar, God is Great, not the Shahadah Fkh82 01:47, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
Aha, thanks :) Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 18:21, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] what is "kalima" ?

searching for the meaning of "kalima" I was redirected to this aritcle, but I can't find any reference to it. --Chatool 09:22, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I work for a sign company, and I wondered if the Kalima wording is in a downloadable format for large scale printing, i.e. adobe illustrator or eps ?

[edit] The most correct translation

The shahadah is (transliteration) 'Ashadu-an laa ilaha illallaah. Wa ashadu anna Muhammad ar-Rasulullah'. There are many translations (interpreations) of this and the most common and most contraversial debate is over the translation of the word 'ilaha'. This is most often translated as 'god' or 'deity'. But a more accurate translation of the word is 'deity worthy of worship'. This would translate the shahadah to- 'I bear witness, there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah. And I bear witness, that Muhammad is the the messenger of Allah'. This makes sense of the Shahadah (and negates claims of groups who join partners in worship of Allah/God) and fits into Islam's charachteristic of 'negation and affirmation (/exception)', which is found on many occasions throughout the Qur'aan. http://www.islamtomorrow.com/9points.htm, provides a good explanation of the whole shahadah. Muhammaduddeen 22:54, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

let's use "god" and "God" (note the piped wikilinks). dab (ᛏ) 07:56, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shahada on country flags and (not) lowering these flags in times of mourning

Isn't it correct that the flags with the Shahada on them (most notably the Saudi flag) are never lowered/flown at half mast in times of mourning? --Soylentyellow 00:10, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of Insya Allah Reference

The bottom of the article mentioned Indonesian prayers involving the recitation of the words "Allah il Allah" and "Insya Allah." While "Insya Allah" is often uttered, its meaning is not, as the article states, a modified form of the first part of the Shahadah. The meaning of Insya Allah is "if it is God's will." I removed the reference to Insya Allah completely as I believe it is irrelevant to this article. --Liesel Hess 11:03, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] disputed translation

I removed the translation of the shahada which said 'There is no God worthy of worship...', as the words 'worthy of worship' are not in the Arabic. This was reverted by itaqallah, who was kind enough to leave messages on my talk page. This is the message I left on his:

Greetings. Thanks for explaining for revert of my removal of what I consider to be a false translation of the shahadah. However the 'reference' is a polemical and not a scholarly site. If there is a well-established dictionary which has 'ilah' translated as 'God worthy of worship', we can let that 'translation' stand. Indeed, in your comment on my userpage you admit that it is not a translation, which makes me wonder why you reverted. I agree that it would be relevant to put this interprepation somewhere in the article, as such, rather than as a translation.
Additionally, this 'translation' (unintentionally) opens up the implication of polytheism, which I'm sure all Muslims would want to avoid.
Peace, Drmaik 06:06, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Itaqallah feels the site not to be polemical. Well, we can argue about that word. However, the article is taken from a magazine called 'Basheer', which can be translated as 'evangelist' (if you don't object to the Christian connotation of that word for some). I propose that this interpretation be mentioned as such, but not as a translation. Drmaik 06:59, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A Muslim's last words

I seem to recall a Shia Muslim having told me that the Shahada should be the last words spoken by a Muslim before dying. I read about Saddam Housein having recited this before being executed and wonder if it is a common practice among Muslims. If so, this information should be included in this article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.27.119.90 (talk) 11:21, 21 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Towards an Encyclopedia

With all due respect for the subtlety and depth of the Arabic language, perhaps any reasonable Romanization would be an improvement over nothing? This is rhetorical. The answer is yes. If no one else does so, I (neither Arab nor Muslim) will do it myself. --Mashford 20:20, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Flags again

It seems kind of unfortunate that the first two illustrations of the shahada are the flags of the Taliban and Hamas. Could other visualizations of the shahada be used instead? Or is there a special reason to use the Taliban version? Katsam 08:40, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "death for Allah"?

Can anyone explain why the organization Palestinian Media Watch refers to Shahada as being "death for Allah" (ie: martyrdom)? See this link. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.2.143.31 (talk) 05:54, 28 September 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Quran Alone views

I keep trying to present the alternate viewpoint of the shahada under differences, but someone keeps removing my additions. The fact that Rashad Khalifa popularized the Shahada as only "Laa Elaaha Ella Allah" is extremely relevant to the topic. Please stop removing it because of your biased opinions. -Saud —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.121.235.180 (talk) 12:02, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Who keeps removing the section from Differences about the Quran Alone/Submitters Shahada ? Your bias is getting the best of you, please let the wikipedia community be aware of all viewpoints. You are violating the rules here at wikipedia and not allowing all opposing viewpoints to be presented. -Saud —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.121.235.180 (talk) 04:44, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

It is unsourced original research. We only include notable viewpoints and do not give any weight to fringe theories. → AA (talk) — 09:32, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

It isn't unsourced. The source is given in the QURAN. The book that is widely accepted by ALL Muslims. In arabic and english it gives the SHAHADA: Quran, Chapter 3, Verse 18. This information is given from the direct source for all Muslims. How can this be considered unsourced? Chapter 3, Verse 18 states the Shahada of Allah, the angels, and those who possess knowledge is to testify/bear witness that: "Laa Elaaha Ella Allah" or "There is no god except Allah". This isn't a theory or anything original, it's been in the Quran for 1,400 years. Please check the source given: Quran, Chapter 3, Verse 18. To remove it just exposes bias. -Saud

please do review the core content policies of this website, namely WP:NPOV, WP:OR and WP:V. your edits do not comply with these policies, and have been undone. it's unlikely that a viewpoint held by a small minority and sourced to a primary source (i.e. the minority website) will be included here, as per our policy on undue weight. ITAQALLAH 17:52, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of Photo

Salam,

Is the photo of the hand necessary to explain shahada? Besides the obvious offence of showing the hand it also is not correct on technical grounds as not all muslin hold out their finger while reciting the shahada in salat.

I suggest it be removed.

--Autoshade (talk) 05:53, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Greek translation is incorrect

The claim that "Allah" is being translated as ὁ θεὸς μόνος "the single god" is incorrect. ὁ θεὸς μόνος means "God alone" or "God only." The full translation is: Οὐκ ἔστιν θεὸς (There is no God) εἰ μὴ ὁ θεὸς μόνος (except for God alone). I have edited the page to reflect the correct translation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Credo icxc (talk • contribs) 19:13, 13 March 2008 (UTC)