Talk:Shah Jahan

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Contents 1 Genocide and incest 2 Title 3 Image 4 Fratricide 5 Reorganize 6 image 7 Urdu/Persian Spelling of Shah Jahan 8 Religious Intolerance Blanking 9 Incest 10 Legend of Taj not being visible from the Sheesh Mahal 11 move the pic into the info box

[edit] Genocide and incest

Can JASpencer provide references to his edits regarding Shah Jehan related genocide and incestuous relationships. Jay 06:53, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I would like to second that request. AxelBoldt 20:46, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Following content moved from article. It can be put back after discussion. Jay 18:48, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

"Although a grandson of the Muslim apostate Akbar the Great he was a firmly orthodox Muslim who initiated forty-eight military campaigns against non-Muslims in less than thirty years. Following the Ottoman practice, on coming to the throne in 1628 he killed all his male relatives except one who escaped to Persia. "

"In Benares during his reign 76 Hindu temples were destroyed, as well as Christian churches at Agra and Lahore. At the end of the three month siege of the Portuguese enclave of Hugh, he had ten thousand inhabitants massacred and four thousand were later killed after refusing to convert to Islam. "

"Shah Jahan had 5,000 concubines and also conducted affairs with his daughters Chamani and Jahanara."

Hi. The source I used was [[here|http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=4649]. A hostile article, but I tried to take out the factual statements. I will try and see if I have the source book and get any footnotes.

[edit] Title

I have changed the supposed full title "Padshah Shah Jahan I" to Shah Jahan. I've never heard of such a title. Google also returns only Wikipedia-related sites. Jay 18:53, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Image

Hi AxelBoldt, why have you put back the image ? Any idea why it was removed in the first place ? Jay 18:53, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I don't know why it was removed and there's no record in the article's history. I have restored it because it seems relevant. AxelBoldt 11:12, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)

My God, I can't believe people are citing Serge Trifkovic as a source on history. Thats like me using Anne Coulter or Michael Moore in an article on American politicss. DigiBullet 20:32, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Fratricide

"most Mughal Emperors killed their fathers upon succession." What is the basis for this statement ? Jay 07:13, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Reorganize

Well, after taking a stab at editing his SON's article, it appears that it might be rational to re-organize this one too. It rambles, it lacks continuity of voice, it jumps around temporally, and repeats some pretty silly stuff without attribution or sources...

So.... I'm editing. Comments? Rick Boatright 4 July 2005 03:55 (UTC)

Go for it Rick! Nemonoman 4 July 2005 18:39 (UTC)

[edit] image

as far as i know, the picture shown is not Shah Jehan but Jehangir... Antares911 16:11, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Urdu/Persian Spelling of Shah Jahan

How is it actually spelled? The first paragraph uses two spellings, شاہ جحاں and شاہ جہان

the first one is correct. it is a heh doachashmee, not the Heh.Dlayiga 05:38, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Religious Intolerance Blanking

Here's what I blanked: Religious intolerance Despite the fact that his mother was Hindu, Shah Jahan did not follow the liberal religious policy instituted by his grandfather, Emperor Akbar. In particular he ordered the destruction of recently built Hindu temples. There are some claims that Hindu scriptures dating back 500 years prior to Shah's birth lay beneath markings in the Taj Mahal suggesting the great wonder was actually a Hindu temple [1]. However, most historians and archeologists refute this claim as baseless.

I can find no references AT ALL to Shah Jahan ordering the destruction of recently built Hindu temples.

The Taj reference is so non-credible it doesn't deserve being played out anywhere, although it is discussed thoroughly in the Taj Mahal article...but in ANY CASE, credible or not, IT IS NOT RELEVANT TO SHAH JAHANS RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE.

Shah Jahan made a half-hearted attempt to reinstate the Jizya (a tax on Non-muslims prescribed by the Sharia), but this was more an indication of a ruler trying to find yet another revenue source.

From all accounts I find, once instated as emperor, Shah Jahan couldn't care about Religion one way or the other. His interests lay elsewhere...mostly marble, jewels, and females.

If you take out the non-documented information, you are left with the information that Shah Jahan's mother was hindu. Not really enough to support a section on religious intolerance.

If somebody wants to document religious intolerance by EVIDENCE (see the Aurangzeb article and discussion for exammple), then by all means put something here. Right now, it's just tissue paper with no substance.

I forgot to sign this comment when I made it on 5 Aug 2006--Nemonoman 22:11, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Incest

The discussion of the Incest allegations and his promiscuity and orgies is of course relevant. The Mughal Era is by no means poor in scandals and promiscuity, but Shah Jahan was exceptionally infamous in that regard. He was the Pope Alexander VI of the Mughal Era. --Combes 02:09, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

For a moment, I thought you made this comment seriously. What an amusing person you are!--Nemonoman 06:19, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh sorry. You were serious.

Shah Jahan triumphed in dozens of battles, managed to claw his way to the Peacock Throne, expanded the Mughal Empire, built dozens of the most beautiful buildings the world has seen, created the Taj Mahal, was deposed by his own son after a war where most of his children killed each other -- in other words he changed the course of history --and you think (1): that he had a harem and (2) that 4 Europeans accused him of incest deserve all that attention? Consider the sources for Pete's sake. The whole section is pitiful. --Nemonoman 06:39, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

i agree. this page is in seriosu serious need of a rewrite, which i will work on when i have time --Mightier than the sword 23:13, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

i mean for god's sake, the guy was an accomplished warrior, poet, administrator, etc. he built one of the world's greatest cities. instead, the main thrust of this article is sexual allegations by tourists in his kingdom? im not doubting that there is a place for this section, just that we need to balance it out with a bit more analysis of the man. those same travelogues state that the mughals were duplicitous, dark faced, treacherous orientals. should we add that in also?--Mightier than the sword 23:20, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Legend of Taj not being visible from the Sheesh Mahal

"Legends include one that says that though the Taj is not directly visible from the Sheesh Mahal (Agra) in the Agra Fort, it is constructed such that it can be seen in its multitude of mirrors."

I've never commented or contributed to wikipedia before, so I'm not too sure how this works. I had to point out that the above statement is absurd to anyone that has ever been to the Agra Fort. The Taj Mahal is directly visible from the Sheesh Mahal. If that's a legend, it would only be a legend among those who have never been to Agra Fort. Such a statement about such a legend does not seem to merit inclusion in an encyclopedia.

[edit] move the pic into the info box

can someone do it?--D-Boy 21:46, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Done.--Nemonoman 22:07, 18 January 2007 (UTC)