Talk:Shadows Fall

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[edit] Thrash Metalcore...

anybody noticed that there are quite a few bands that combine both thrash metal and metalcore. There should be a genre called thrash metalcore, not refering to thrashcore or neo-thrash

A...hem...

That is a good point, but let me direct you to this article. Prepare to be Mezmerized! :D 21:03, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] metal

no such thing as true metal have subgenres but dont debate whose true and who isnt cos thats retarded

Shadows Fall are not death metal. Shadows Fall is thrash. Shadows Fall is not melodic death metal. Shadows Fall incorporates elements of metalcore and hardcore into it's music. Calling Shadows Fall "true metal music" is an opinion. I am revising it to say the following:

Shadows Fall is a modern American thrash metal band with hardcore and metalcore influences.

I don't think that can be disputed.

unrealshadow13

Of course it can. Writing that it has both metalcore and hardcore influences is redundant. Metalcore is nothing more than very hardcore-influenced metal, so including both in there is silly. I don't see Shadows fall as being primarily any one genre, but if I had to go with something, I would say that it is melodic death metal, with prominent thrash metal and hardcore influences. Really, though, some of the newer metal bands like Shadows Fall, Lamb of God, and The Haunted are forcing people to look beyond one or two genres of influence. Unfortunately, it seems like every time some new form of metal comes up that has any hardcore influences in it at all, it is automatically given the name "metalcore", and that's a dangerous thing because it tends to lump a few amazing melodic bands in there as well that don't resemble metalcore at all, such as Shadows Fall.

Thrash?????? No... You *might* call it thrashcore, but Shadows Fall is nowhere near enough to Megadeth and Metallica to be called thrash. 72.40.53.121 20:49, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

That description is way too cumbersome and not a very good representation of their music...I wouldn't call them melodic death metal at all. I think it should be changed to thrash metal with melodic death and hardcore influences.

Adamantium Guy 05:24, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

"Shadows Fall is nowhere near enough to Megadeth and Metallica to be called thrash. " - I disagree. Why not? --Rp81 20:43, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I would not consider Shadows Fall as melodic death metal. I wouldn't consider them thrash, either. To answer the question about the quote above, if you have ever listened to Megadeth, that's thrash. Long solos (which may not even fit the song, but are thrown into random places in the song) and vocals that rarely or oddly harmonize with the music. I knew from the second I read the opening paragraph that it was incorrect (considering SF melodeath). If you talk to most death metal fans (even those that don't like melodeath) they consider Shadows Fall metalcore.

This thing with metalcore being hardcore with metal influeneces is getting a bit redundant. Metalcore is simply the fusion between two genres. -- User:Growlnotscream 12:08, 13 April 2006

  • Metalcore is not true metal. So to call it both metalcore, then melodic death is confusing
Agreed. People are getting confused between the two types of music. Metalcore is not true metal. It is in fact hardcore punk with metal influences. Having influences in something does not automatically make it that genre. (i.e. in this case 'true metal').
  • Grindcore could also be argued. Grindcore is not true metal, but a very heavy style of punk (crust punk) with death metal influences. Grindcore is not metal, but does have links to death metal. It is a type of punk.
  • Thrash metal is true metal. It derived from early punk but has developed into a separate movement. Thrash metal later developed in black and death metal, which have no punk influences.
  • So what is Shadows Fall? Confusing people on Wikipedia is wrong. 13/6/06
Melodic Deathcore aka Swedecore —The preceding unsigned comment was added by HappyBoy (talk • contribs) 23:51, 16 December 2006 (UTC).
They started off as Melodic Death Metal but upon having Brian Fair as their vocalist they moved onto a Thrash-influence Metalcore sound. Zeingard 05:05, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
  • ^Wrong, Brian Fair didn't start using "yelling" as his vocal technique until he had already been with the band for an entire CD (he started "yelling" on The Art of Balance) They didn't start showing other metalcore influences until a few breakdowns in some songs on the War Within. Shadows Fall is more metal than punk, although they do have a few harcore influences. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nebraskan (talk • contribs) 19:36, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

I think that their first album is pure melodic death metal while of one blood is melodic death and thrash. Art of balance and war within are thrash and metalcore but threads of life is a pure thrash album although i wouldnt consider it old school thrash since it is very melodic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.177.12.165 (talk) 02:06, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] First TV interview

I believe their first TV interview was on Uranium. If I remember correctly, during their second appearance on the show, Juliya light-heartedly griped that the band didn't mention her while thanking their supporters during an interview on Headbanger's Ball. Brian then chuckled and admitted credibility of Uranium in helping gain them exposure. Anyone else remember this? I just don't want to add something to the article that's inaccurate. - Caleson August 28, 2006


[edit] Springfield

I removed Westfield from their page and added Springfield. Cite their myspace page. Iamvery October 18, 2006

Again, someone changed their location to Westfield. The general consensus is that they come from Springfield not Westfield. Their myspace page maintains that fact. Please provide proof that they are in fact from Westfield. Minor issue, but nonetheless, it should be resolved. Once proof is validated, I will be amenable to showing their location as Westfield. Iamvery 20:08, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Band Members

Do we need a link to every band member on here? I checked the links, and they are all stubs stating the same thing in here, plus what type of instrument they use. Besides the former member who is with Killswitch Engage, I don't see the point in this...I propose the pages redirect to here, like Paul Romanko's link. Jlricherson 08:13, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

uh why then do we need links at all if they redirect (i'm talking about the Paul Romanko link)? backstabb 20:15, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

since when was adam from kse apart of the band?

i can't find any evidence that he ever was, he produced their first album, but that hardly makes him a member. i'm removing him. if someone can find verifiable evidence that he was in fact a bona-fide member then they can put him back in the former members section.65.43.208.60 09:36, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why Do We Have A Related Bands Section...?

Why not just add an "associated acts" section and keep it at that. Trivium9786 13:54, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Shadows Fall Logo.png

Image:Shadows Fall Logo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 03:48, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Fuck off!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.114.156.115 (talk) 12:23, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Citations needed

In the history field for the band, it states: Shadows Fall was considered one of the best new bands on the tour[citation needed] and sold more albums on each stop than other bands that appeared on the side-stage.[citation needed] Is there verifiable encyclopedic proof that would validate this claim? I feel if none can be provided this should be removed. If a valid citation is provided then the entry should be edited to meet the policy of Neutral point of view WP:NEU

Mikearmyhockey 04:07, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merger proposed (Jonathan Donais)

The following discussion is archived. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

The result was: Merge, by silent consensus. --B. Wolterding 16:58, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I propose to merge the content of Jonathan Donais into here, since the notability of that article has been questioned. In fact, it appears that Jonathan Donais does not meet the notability criteria WP:BIO or WP:WEB independent of his band. So I think it is best to merge the content into here.

Please add your comments below. Proposed as part of the Notability wikiproject. --B. Wolterding 15:35, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.


[edit] Opperation Annihalation Tour

Does anyone know if these guys are the main act or are Static-X, I see them on Oct, 10 2007. Skeeker [Talk] 03:19, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Post-thrash?

Since when? Sources, please? Prepare to be Mezmerized! :D 00:01, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Shadows Fall is not Thrash-Metal Core

Shadows Fall is a Christian heavy Metal Band Look it up, Gosh Flippin Idiots. Prince Of All Saiyans 14:23, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't think I've ever heard them referred to as Christian.Inhumer (talk) 15:48, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Some of the members are Christians, and sometimes shows in their lyrics, but they are not a "Christian band". —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 21:34, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Thats like calling Deicide a Christian band because Ralph is Roman Catholic.Inhumer (talk) 23:59, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Were you refering to me or Prince Of All Saiyans? —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 18:07, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Him. Inhumer (talk) 18:45, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA on hold

  • "Since its formation, Shadows Fall has released five studio albums, two compilation albums, and one DVD." - Only compilation is linked. Link everything or nothign
  • "is regarded as one of heavy metal's best drummers." - isn't mentioned later in the article. Shouldn't really be in the lead (or else needs sourcing)
  • "The band released its first demo To Ashes" - according to the navbox it was an EP. Say that
  • "left to form the band Killswitch Engage." - "the band" isn't necessary
  • "The band recorded its second studio album Of One Blood with Fair on vocals in 2000. The release included re-recorded songs from Somber Eyes to the Sky. " - Try merging these sentences (and the short stubby sentences around this stuff)
  • "on The War Within." - Obviously he's referring to that album, not sure this statement is needed
  • ""Redemption" received a Grammy Award nomination for Best Metal performance, the award ceremony will be held on 10 February 2008" - semicolon more appropriate than a comma here

Leave a note on my talk page when you're done. Cheers, — Dihydrogen Monoxide 23:47, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Y Done Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 00:35, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Passed. — Dihydrogen Monoxide 00:38, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thrash metal

This band has never played that style, I believe. One user in particular keeps adding it back in, providing a source from All Music Guide. The problem with this source is that it does not call them thrash in the review at all. It says it off to the side (in an infobox) and the AMG infoboxes are notoriously bad for genres. You will notice if you look them up on AMG that the infbox also calls them death/black metal. That is blatantly wrong. And so is the idea that this band plays thrash. Perhaps it has some thrash influence but it does not play thrash. Find some sources if you want. Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 21:48, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

In fact I just went to AMG and looked through all the reviews of Shadows Fall and not one mentions "thrash" anywhere. It only mentions thrash once for their latest album under styles in the infobox. It has already been determined that the infoboxes on AMG are unreliable and they are not used. Only the reviews themselves are used. If you believe those infoboxes then Shadows Fall is also punk metal and black/death metal. I mean the infoboxes on AMG also call both Opeth and Nightwish symphonic black metal and gothic metal. Neither of those bands has ever played black metal at all, in any form, and neither of them have ever played gothic metal. Bottom line is this. We use reviews from AMG, not their infoboxes off to the side, which are notoriously inaccurate. Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 22:17, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

If Burningclean continues to add thrash metal to the genre section (which is utterly ridiculous) I will add black and death metal per his AMG "source" which he is using incorrectly as it is. Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 21:54, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I found a different source. Not sure why you would be the one warning me, especially considering you are involved, and have been warned in the past yourself. Burningclean [speak] 02:20, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
I warned you because you were edit warring without even talking about it. My past indiscretions are not being discussed here. I've never been warned about this page, either. Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 03:03, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
I removed your source as it said, "thrash revisionists," which is very ambiguous and does not mean thy play thrash metal. In fact, "revisionists," would imply that they do not play the thrash metal style, but something more post-thrash (perhaps) like groove metal. The comment is way too ambiguous. I don't even understand how you could think that SF plays thrash metal. They play nothing close to the style. You can't even possibly compare them to any thrash band. I don't mean it as an insult at all, but you must not listen to any thrash metal. Even melodic thrash metal has nothing in common with this band. If you still want to add it in we should have a consensus discussion and have a bunch of people say what they think and gather some consensus. That would be the proper wikipedia way, I suppose. Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 03:08, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

(I haven't read the above) If there is a dispute, usually we aim to use an umbrella term that incorporates all the genres in the said dispute. In this instance, I have replaced the genre(s) with Heavy metal. This can remain forever or until a consensus is gained through polite and civil discussion. Please could both users remember not to edit war. If you need anything please do not hesitiate to contact me. ScarianCall me Pat! 12:38, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Alright, we're gonna gather some consensus here. I vote that Shadows Fall is metalcore. Now I will let other users decide what they think the genre of the band is. I should also point out that when I say "metalcore," I mean that I think SF has played exclusively metalcore. I mean, I think everyone agrees they play metalcore, its just that Burningclean also thinks they play thrash metal. Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 19:34, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
First thing I did upon reading this (I havn't read all the replies, so forgive me if this has been mentioned) was went to the Metal Archives. If you go to Metallum and type in Shadows Fall, you'll see that it states they are both thrash and metalcore. Personally, I'd agree with Nav and call them metalcore, but there is a source for both - although Nav is correct in saying that the AMG infobox's are hilariously bad; I believe it stated that Nightwish were symphonic black metal, which is laughable. ≈ The Haunted Angel 22:08, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Not that I have a source or anything... but any metal fan with ears will tell you that Shadows Fall is most definitely metalcore. Early on they were different, more of a melodic death metal type band, but not anymore. Some of their stuff isn't that metal at all though - take the largely-acoustic "Another Hero Lost." Well, that's my two cents. Festering Rat Corpse (talk) 22:25, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

I did some research on Blizzards behalf and I can only conclude the press labels them both metalcore AND thrash metal

Not all reliable sources per se, just a couple of sites I often visit to get a 'feeling' of the bands genre:
Rockdetector

  • Metal
  • Metalcore
  • NWoAHM

http://www.rockdetector.com/artist,7925.sm

Metal-Archives

  • Melodic Death (early), Thrash/Metalcore (today)

http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=703

Popmatters

  • "was a very solid, workmanlike album that wore its strong metalcore influences on its sleeve (midtempo, crunchy riffs, shout-along choruses, simple melodies, and hoarse-throated vocals), but at times ... incorporating more of a thrash metal sound bearing a remarkable similarity to Bay Area thrash legends Exodus"
  • "finding an appealing middle ground between metalcore and more melodic ‘80s metal."
  • "If Lamb of God are stylistically akin to Megadeth and Slayer, Shadows Fall keep things a bit more simple and accessible, like Exodus and Anthrax"

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/music/reviews/27165/shadowsfall-warwithin/


Allmusic

  • "Although their music sometimes bears strong similarities to the technical, progressive brand of death metal centered around Gothenburg, Sweden, and epitomized by bands like In Flames ... Building their songs around the stop-start tempo and riff changes pioneered by bands like Metallica, Slayer, and Iron Maiden"

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg%2edll?p=amg&sql=11:fbfqxqwjldke~T1

Metal Observer

  • 2000 Of One Blood Review > 9/10 - Armen - (Thrash Metal)
  • 2002 The Art Of Balance Review > 9/10 - Chris - (Thrash Metal)
  • 2004 The War Within Review > 8/10 - Jenn - (Power Thrash Metal)
  • 2004 The War Within Review > 9,5/10 - Joe - (Thrash Metal)
  • 2004 The War Within Review > 9/10 - Chris - (Power Thrash Metal)
  • 2004 The War Within Review > 8,5/10 - Rob - (Power Metal)
  • 2006 Fall Out From The War Review > 8/10 - Chris - (Thrash Metal/Metalcore)
  • 2006 Fallout From The War Review > 9,5/10 - Joe - (Thrash Metal/Metalcore)
  • 2007 Threads Of Life Review > 7/10 - Neil - (Thrash Metal/Melodic Metal)

http://www.metal-observer.com/articles.php?lid=1&sid=5&a=l&l=S

  • "modern Metal masterpieces"
  • "the band’s trademark melodic Thrash/Hardcore mix"
  • "a speedy Thrash track"

http://www.metal-observer.com/articles.php?lid=1&sid=1&id=12663

  • "[Shadows Fall] will dispel any notion that TRIVIUM are kings of the Thrash/ Metalcore castle."

http://www.metal-observer.com/articles.php?lid=1&sid=1&id=10737

  • "I feel like I’m just listening to any other Metalcore band"
  • "and this album seems more like Metal Core (i.e STAMPIN’ GROUND, GOD FORBID, ATREYU) with Thrash influences"
  • "and is actual Thrash"

http://www.metal-observer.com/articles.php?lid=1&sid=1&id=7183

  • "Power Metal melody interweaved in just about every song than your average Thrash"
  • "Power Metal riffery of ‘’Act Of Contrition’’ ... ‘’What Drives The Weak’’ has another tasty Melodic Power Metal introduction"

http://www.metal-observer.com/articles.php?lid=1&sid=1&id=7128

and so on... Kameejl (Talk) 08:41, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, I still think it's total crap, but there's sources that say they're thrash mixed with metalcore. I think most of these sources are deluded and happing on a "bandwagon" of newer bands and giving them labels, that actually belong to other bands, to try and remind people of the glory days and say, "hey, this new band is just like those bands," which is laughable. I mean, Kameejl you hunted up a sentence that said, "If Lamb of God are stylistically akin to Megadeth and Slayer, Shadows Fall keep things a bit more simple and accessible, like Exodus and Anthrax." Are you serious? Do you actually believe that? First of all Lamb of God is nothing like Megadeth or Slayer. Megadeth and Slayer are both thrash (though at different spectrums of brutality) and Lamb of God is GROOVE METAL. How can they even be compared? Why? Because of some of these newer magazine-type idiots that try to compare newer bands to older bands (which were actually good) and hopelessly failing to most real metal fans. But then, most of you do believe that SF are at least slightly thrashy and you've provided sources. I guess add it back in. It can't be fought anymore. Now excuse me while I go dig up some "reliable sources" that call Slipshit black metal. Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 23:49, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Y'know, this is really unbelieveable. First, it's not usually that hard to find reliable sources to back up just about anything. Second, metalcore bands often get compared to thrash metal bands (because some of these idiots think it's the goddamn second-coming of extreme-but-mainstream-metal like thrash was for a while. So they get mislabled thrash. It's crap. Next thing y'know, bands like God Forbid and All That Remains and As I Lay Dying will be labeled thrash. I'm sure there's sources for it. It makes me think of something horrid i saw last night. I went to Paganfest to see Tyr, Eluveitie, Suidakra, Turisas and Ensiferum (which of course ruled) and I saw a poster for an upcoming band performance and it was Death Angel (DEATH ANGEL people!!! Thrash metal Gods, Death Angel!) performing with (guess who?) God Forbid...I stared in slack-jawed disbelief like some lightning-struck retard, as if some sort of perverse act had been commited in front of me (and it had). WTF! That's all I could think. How could this intense blasphemy/heresy be happening! Such a great like Death Angel performing with such a shitty metalcore band like GF. Now look, people can listen to whatever the hell they want to (as long as it's not near me for too long) but I just think it's total sacrilege to put such differing bands together. I'm betting no God Forbid fans have even heard of Death Angel. That's bullshit. I'm distressed. Metal is failing. The only areas where metal is getting better is in newer genres like folk metal/Viking metal and some progressive metal bands. Pretty much every other metal subgenre is worsening steadily. And if people start calling metalcore "thrash metal" and it actually becomes the new thrash metal or is considered the "evolution" of it or something...well, I'm gonna shit my pants. I hope I'm dead before that ever happens. Thrash metal is raw, blindingly fast, technical and angry. That isn't metalcore and fuck metalcore. Simplistic, non-talented, whiny, mainstream wanna be, angsty bullshit that goes out of its way to appeal to teens. Man, most metal doesn't even go out of its way to be appealing to any audience, period. Fuck that. This is goddamn good music and if you don't like it, get the fuck out! We won't change for shit! Well except for ourselves of course and it won't be selling out to anything mainstream, damnit! Whatever. Thrash metal is dead, and it died a long time ago. As far as I'm concerned, metalcore isn't even metal. Just like all those nu metal goths that prance around thinking they're so evil and that they're the shit and their music is "EXTREME!" You listen to rap, dumbass, how extreme can it be? Fuck that shit. Hail real metal. And hail Odin. Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 00:16, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
You might disagree but Shadows Fall is often compared to thrash metal bands in the media. I too think they're metalcore. But that's how we do things on wikipedia. I've been in similar situations with Between the Buried and Me, Pantera, Avant-garde metal and Static-X. The editors at Static-X think the band isn't nu metal. I've got 10 sources mentioning nu metal and still, nu metal is repeatedly removed from the infobox... Let it slide... Kameejl (Talk) 00:36, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
I know, but it's hard, argh. It's so maddening. Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 18:22, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
All I have to say about all this is the fact you don't seem to understand progression. Look at melodic death metal. Look at doom, death and yes, what you're arguing about, thrash. All have evolved. It's natural, it's called bands today don't want to copy bands from 20 years ago, they'd like to have their own sound, while retaining the qualities that made that sub-genre. By ranting which is WP:FORUM anyways doesn't get your point across it just sends a negative message. -- Shatterzer0 (talk) 03:10, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
I do understand progression. Most of the bands I like are extremely progressive. Genres evolve, yes, but sometimes they evolve badly and/or people starting calling them another genre and it sticks. What we call metalcore now may very well be called thrash metal in a few years and that thought bugs nme a lot. Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 18:22, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
I don't agree that Shadows Fall is thrash, but if sources say otherwise I guess metalcore/thrash is fair enough. Bloodredchaos (talk) 06:59, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

They play a new style called metalcore. Metalcore have elments of death metal, thrash metal and hardcore. So your all right. And traces back to NWOBHM aswell. The term is used as slang but now a accepted term for all 'core lovers. 15:32, 21 May 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by METALFREAK04 (talk • contribs)