Talk:Seven gifts of the Holy Spirit

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moved from article, not by me: Johnbod 22:10, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Looking at 1 Cor 1-14 in verses 8-10 we see that there are actually 9 gifts listed, The word of wisdom, the word of knowledge, faith, gifts of healings, working of miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits; diverse kinds of tongues; interpretation of speeches. Then in verse 31 Paul encourages us to be zealous for or to covet the best gifts. Continuing on to verses 11-14 if we leave off tongues and the interpretation of speeches we have an incomplete body. We must covet or be zealous of all the gifts, the best ones would be the ones needed at the required time.

I'm not sure why the above graf even needs to be considered part of the discussion on the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit; the writer simply has confused the gifts of the Holy Spirit with the charismata. Shaun G 12:42, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Naming conventions for the seven gifts?

User 70.230.240.66 recently changed some of the more traditional names of these gifts to conform to more modern equivalents ("Counsel" to "Right Judgement" and "Fear of the Lord" to "Wonder and Awe"). In sources like the Catholic Encyclopedia[1], the more traditional names are used, but I seem to recall that the more modern names are now being used in Confirmation classes, which I think might give weight to them being the "primary" names, with their traditional equivalents listed afterwards in an "also called" or "also known as" parenthetical.

However, this presents problems. For example, the name "Fear of the Lord" is, I think, more widely recognized than "Wonder and Awe," so it seems like it makes sense to prefer the traditional term for it to the modern term (especially because "Fear of the Lord" has its own Wikipedia entry, while "Wonder and awe" does not).

Whilst wonder and awe of God is a good thing, it is not the same as Fear of the Lord, and whilst it may be a gift of the spirit, it is one of the seven which Thomas Aquinas identifies as aids to the practice of virtue, which these seven are.

Luke 12:5 "But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him."

Oliver Low (talk) 03:52, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

What do the rest of you think? Can we come to some sort of agreement on which terms to use? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jawns317 (talk • contribs) 13:37, 28 March 2007 (UTC).

I'd query these are more modern, except in the sense that the C17th is more modern than the Middle Ages. I suspect this is a Catholic/Anglican division. The article says it deals with the Catholic & Anglican traditions (there is a more Pentecostal version somewhere). If there are two well-established sets of names in English, I think both should be given. Counsel & Fear of the Lord still seem to be the Catholic favourites. The very poor comments afterwards ("God goggles" indeed!) should be removed, and if necessary expanded on below, in an encyclopedic manner. Johnbod 15:02, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Let's stick to the names in the English version of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, as this is the most widely accepted authority. Oliver Low (talk) 03:46, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Authoritative sources for names/definitions of gifts

I have updated the names of the seven gifts to correspond to the names listed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and I have used St. Thomas Aquinas's Summa Theologica to define the gifts.

I think these are probably as authoritative as sources can get for this topic, outside of the Bible. Thus, I respectfully ask that if anyone decides to change the names or definitions of these gifts, that they justify their changes using sources that are at least as authoritative. In other words, don't just change "Fear of the Lord" to something other than "Fear of the Lord" because you think it happens to sound better.

That said, I think the definitions could still use some polishing. But I would recommend that if you are going to try to improve the definitions, you rely on authoritative sources such as Aquinas -- don't just say that "Wisdom" is like "God goggles." Jawns317 17:32, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

I've revised the definitions of each gift to conform to Aquinas' definitions. I encourage other users to refine these definitions and make them easier to understand -- but please keep them in conformance with Aquinas's definitions, or use another authoritative source. Don't just try to define the gifts yourself. That's not authoritative. Jawns317 —Preceding comment was added at 12:55, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Isaiah 11:2-3

I'm only counting six, how do you get seven? 1.Chochmah (wisdom) 2.Binah (understanding) 3.Atzah (counsel) 4.Gevurah (might) 5.Daat (knowledge) 6.Yiras Hashem (fear of the LORD) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.170.70.61 (talk) 10:24, 5 June 2008 (UTC)