Talk:Seven Wonders of the Medieval World

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This article was nominated for deletion on 8 November 2006. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

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[edit] Questions

1. What is the origin of the name "Seven Wonders of the Medieval Mind"? I can only find web references - a search of Amazons database comes up with zero published books that use the term. I suspect it is a recent neologism. I did find a few book references to "Seven Wonders of the Medieval World", which makes a lot more sense, but Amazon won't let me search those books to see what they say about it.
2. What is the origin of the list? I can find no reference to it in the Dictionary of the Middle Ages, or any other large reference work. I suspect it is a list someone made (when?), that has been discovered, but was probably not well known during the middle ages.
3. Since the list contains sites in China, it must have been made very late in the Middle Ages, 15th or 16th centuries -- possibly even during the Renaissance, possibly even during the modern era (it's "politically correct" nature of including all cultures is suspect - these lists were compiled for travelers, and no one was traveling on a site seeing tour to China until recently). Much more information is needed.

--Stbalbach 13:07, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I left a talk message with the initial author asking if s/he had sources that could be cited for the article. Unless this list can be confirmed as really being Medieval in origin, the article should probably be removed. The last thing we need on wikipedia is for someone's personal Seven Wonders list to presented as an authentic historical list. As always, YMMV. --Kralizec! (talk) 00:36, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, there are certainly people who talk about a list and mention it in published sources -- it does exist, if nothing else in concept and popular culture, which can be documented [1] -- but that doesn't say much really. I changed the wording of the article for now, so it just says what we know for sure. I think there is a story behind the list, just need to find it out. I'm sure the initial author just found it on the web at the wonderclub.com site. -- Stbalbach 01:18, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge

Assuming the above questions can be answered, this list should be merged with Seven Wonders of the World -- all the "seven wonders" lists are contained there (not just Ancient, but modern and others as well). In any case this list is a derivative of the ancient list and part of the same tradition, it only makes sense in that context. -- Stbalbach 13:25, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

• This article is not about the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World and should not be merged as proposed. It fills a screen and seems fine as is. The proposal to merge has not even been seconded in quite some time and so I propose to remove the template soon. Peak 01:41, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, the Seven Wonders of the World discusses more than just the ancient world. As for "filling a screen" not sure what that means. As for not being seconded, probably the reason is because of the section above this, which calls this entire article into question - unless a source can be found it should be put up for a vote for deletion soon. -- Stbalbach 03:43, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This article should probably be deleted

I don't really see any good reason this article should exist. First of all, there is no evidence that such a list existed in any historical context. Secondly, there is no definitive list--it's basically a compendium of top sights lists in various travel guides. Third, many of the sites listed are not of Medieval origin (i.e., the Taj Mahal, Stonehenge, The Catacombs of Kom el Shoqafa, most of the Great Wall of China, the Hagia Sophia and the Leaning Tower of Pisa--the bulk of the list).

I recommend deleting this list to avoid further confusion. Phil Bastian 22:41, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

- agreed; original web nonsense Johnbod 01:54, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

The Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable has the same list as the Wonder Club. Neither the Wonder Club nor Brewer's cite sources but Brewer's makes no claim that this list is medieval simply calling it "a later list", later that is than the classical list of the Seven Wonders of the World. Brewer's is certainly a venerable and respected reference source. My citation comes from Brewer's Centenary edition so presumably the Brewer'as list has been extant for a long time. Thus it is not "original web nonsense". I would suggest that the list and article be retained but that its title be changed to delete the reference to its supposed "medieval" origin.

203.27.176.77 03:16, 9 November 2006 (UTC) Leo Wassercug 9 November 2006

Thanks Leo. Brewers is the best source we have so far. It's certainly a "later list", I suspect late 18th to mid-19th Century. -- Stbalbach 03:34, 9 November 2006 (UTC)