User talk:Setanta747/Northern Ireland

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[edit] Initial comments

Please refrain from editing this article until I've got most of the work done. Feel free in the meantime to make suggestions in sections under this one. The reason I ask for no edits is that this is very much a work-in-progress, and peoples' edits of concern may eventually be addressed by me anyway, as I'm going to be constantly assessing my own work. Also, unfinished sections might get severely convoluted if editing occurs before the section is finished. While suggestions are very welcome on this discussion page, they may not be acted on immediately (or at all). Any unresolved concerns can be addressed once I've submitted this as a replacement for the Northern Ireland article. --Mal 20:25, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Previous discussions (taken from User pages) - edited

Now if only we could get the Northern Ireland article up to the standard of the portal, and cut out a lot of the political crap and waffle that is there.

Jonto 12:37, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks - feel free to help out with the portal and/or the NI Wikipedians' notice board. I'm trying to keep the portal relatively free of references to the Troubles. At the minute, all I think I've got about it is basically the article called The Troubles, an article on 1798 and an article on 1690 (actually I was going to add an article on 1916 too, but I forgot).
The Northern Ireland article is apparently a "Good Article". I've not read through it all yet, but I was thinking of making a copy of it, and adding it to my namespace. You're welcome to help out and comment on its discussion page after I've copied it. I'd be hoping to eventually get it to featured status. --Mal 18:26, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't know who added the "good article" tag, but there are many here who don't agree with that - needs a LOT of work before it would be featured! I hate the way that the "Demographic and Politics" section is so prominent and instantly launches into Prod v. Cath in the first sentence. The article used to mention stats mainly on Unionist v. Nationalist, but then someone came on and over-emphasised the Protestant v. Catholic.
The section on nomenclature is also completely full of inaccuracies, oversimplifications, and PoVs. Every single term there could be used by either "community" in certain contexts (except for the "occupied" one). Think this one should be reduced to a single sentence and then the main article linked.
Anyway, I'll happily comment on the noticeboard when I get time.
Jonto 00:18, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
Yeah I'd wondered about the "Good article" tag myself tbh! The layout is ok I suppose, but as you say, the content leaves much to be desired. I've not studied it in detail yet, or even read through it all. The Protestant vs Catholic thing obviously needs to be rectified... particularly to show (I think) the mainstream thinking - most of us here in NI, you'd probably agree, don't necessarily think along those lines. As you say, it should be reduced to a single line or two.. because there are plenty of other articles that 'slabber on' about that stuff already. Simply adding links to those articles should surely suffice. What's your thoughts? --Mal 01:33, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
I say go for it - edit away! Also reduce the percentage of 'slabbering' (haven't heard that one in a long time! :D) by adding more useful stuff. I think the structure should be based on the Scotland and Wales articles. Note how in the Scotland and Wales articles that history comes before politics and demographics/religion. There also needs to be a section on NI law, and economics. Also, it could do with some decent photos. There is already a better pic of the Giant's Causeway on the Giant's Causeway article, maybe add some of the following: Glens of Antrim, one of Stormont, Mournes, Carrickfergus Castle, Dunluce Castle, Whitepark bay, Walls of Derry / Diamond, Castle Espie, Mount Stewart, Bushmills Whiskey (mentioned nowhere in NI articles!!), Ulster Fry, Scrabo Tower, Slemish, Cavehill looking like the giant from Gullivers travels (should be in Belfast article though, which is in just as dire a condition as the NI one!), Lough Erne, Belfast city hall, Big fish, QUB, loyalist mural to contrast republican, peace mural. etc. etc. There is so much that could be added!Jonto 02:22, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WildIrishman

I see that you responded to a comment by an anon regarding this user on the Northern Ireland talk page. To be honest with you i would keep an eye on this user, i have ran across several of his edits. He has mad some changes to statistical information, that i believe is backed up by sources, but those are matters for debate, and so i can kinda let that go. But he has removed reference to the Catholic Church from several articles (which i find rather strange considering that the user says that he is "a devout Roman Catholic of Irish and English heritage" on his user page), remove of the Irish names from several articles, and the remove of other persons comments, specifically mine for some reason, from several pages. Most of his edits seemed to be centered on the Armagh region. He also blanked his talk page and told another user not to msg him. You might want to alter the users on your bard to just keep an eye on this guy, I'll put something on the Irish users board. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 05:14, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Troubles

I agree with your idea on trying to limit the amount of info on the troubles if compared to the current main NI article to reflect that it was an extreme minority who where involved, and to limit PoV pushing. However, you only barely mention it in once sentence in your current revision - this is ok for the portal, but it is going a bit far for the article and maybe glossing over the issue as if to pretend the 3000 (admittedly pointless) deaths never happened. While NI is not as policitised as the main NI article implies, I doubt there isn't a single person in NI above 20 years old that hasn't been affected by the Troubles in some way or another Jonto 04:26, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Don't worry Jonto - I've not finished yet. In fact, I've had a long, long break from it. You might notice a lot of the sections I've created/copied are empty. I've also put a little note to myself in the History section, which simply reads: "Troubles Peace Process (RoI's constitutional amendments)". --Mal 14:46, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Offical flag

I can see right away that the official flag of Northern Ireland is going to cause controversy. There are two options: 1) That this is an encyclopedia, and we stick with the correct information or 2) We appease a minority of people by changing the flag to the defunct Northern Ireland flag.. some of whom will still not accept that flag either.

The emblem of the Northern Ireland Assembly is just that - an emblem used by that body. The proposed flags have not yet been adopted and so are not official.

This leads me back to the two suggestions above - the official flag of Northern Ireland (the Union Jack), or the unofficial Northern Ireland Flag. I do not want to purposely cause offence (though it seems to me that anyone likely to be offended by the official flag would also refuse to accept the existance of Northern Ireland in the first place), but I do want to include factual information in this encyclopedia. --Mal 05:48, 4 April 2006 (UTC)