Talk:Settlers of Catan

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March 1, 2004 Featured article candidate Not promoted
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[edit] Xbox 360 of Catan given own article

The amount of information coming for the 360 version of Catan was becoming unweildly, so it made sense to give it its own article: Catan. JAF1970 20:20, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

PS. Especially since it has achievements, upcoming rules, unique AIs which will be given names, etc. JAF1970 21:04, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Strategy section

There should be a strat section. Other game entries have them. JAF1970 19:46, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Strategy sections violate WP:NOR and WP:V unless you can source them (ie. we can only reference existing published strategy guides from reputable sources). And WP:BTG is somewhat against strategy sections by that principle. kelvSYC 07:11, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] After market section

We need a section for after-market addons like the YuCatan Custom Board like the one now available commercially. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Todobemcara (talk • contribs) 21:15, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Deleted References

Someone has deleted references to the online jsettlers game and the open source Sea3D. These are valid links, and should not be deleted.--Bcnstony 07:36, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Those aren't references; they are links to pages not about The Settlers of Catan, but rather about apparently non-notable unlicensed computer implementations of the game, and IMO WP:EL#Links normally to be avoided. -- JHunterJ 11:20, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
A number of people on this discussion board have already mentioned sea3d and jsettlers as worthy of inclusion. Concern about confusing licensed with non-licensed versions is valid, so I have included links to these games at the bottom, under External Links - Non-Licensed Versions. I hope this satisfies what appears to be the dual goals of providing a reference to these versions with the desire to have then not listed alongside official, sanctioned implementations.--Bcnstony 21:28, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
They skirt too close to WP:SPAM, and at best are only indirectly related to the subject of this article, the non-computer version. -- JHunterJ 23:03, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
I am confused by your definition of both SPAM and indirectly related. Unlike the XBOX game, these games attempt to derive no profit, making the SPAM argument questionable. Additionally, these games are complete implementations of Settlers of Catan, in every detail, except that they do not have the same name for legal reasons. I nominated that we either add these, or remove the links to the XBOX version under your argument of WP:SPAM. Additionally, I would like more people to comment on this issue, as I am beginning to feel that decisions are being taken unilaterally by a single user, despite multiple users on this discussion page commenting on both jsettlers and Sea3D.--Bcnstony 00:32, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia spam doesn't require a profit motive; see WP:SPAM. If they are not Settlers of Catan games (whether for legal reasons or not), then IMO they don't belong on the Settlers of Catan article. Agreed about the XBox version, though. -- JHunterJ 02:23, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
To answer your concerns about unilateral actions, I fully support JHunterJ in removing these links. Percy Snoodle 12:38, 16 April 2007 (UTC)


I strongly disagree with the deletion of non-licensed versions, and plan to re-add them after some additional time for discussion. Deleting them is rather POV.--SarekOfVulcan 03:03, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

JHunterJ, I believe that you're referring to EL3, links that exist to promote the site. I don't think these fall under that category: they provide a way for people to familiarize themselves with the game without having to pay first. It wasn't until after I spent some time on Sea3D that I actually wanted to start buying the game -- the Card game that I had initially bought didn't grab my interest, and the last similar game I bought, El Grande, was way too complicated. After I learned the rules playing online, though, I bought my own copy of Settlers, and plan to pick up a couple more expansions this summer.--SarekOfVulcan 03:08, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
You are confusing "exist to promote the site" with "exist to take business away from the legal owner". That, in your case, the software did not take business away from the legal owner does not change whether the links exist to promote the site. If there were a site "www.buyalegalcopyofsettlerstoday.com", it would still be inappropriate to add the link here to promote it. If the unlicensed version(s) are notable, create WP articles for them and Wikilink them from this article instead. So far, none have been notable enough. -- JHunterJ 06:34, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

How about this as a compromise: Under video games, we add "There are also a number of unlicensed third-party computer implementations of Settlers of Catan" and link to a freshmeat search for Catan as the reference. That way the article is on-topic, and the link is non-promotional; but Pioneers gets a link and so will Sea3d if they add themselves to FM? Possibly a different software directory would be a better choice. Percy Snoodle 08:52, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Leaving out mention of Java Settlers of Cattan is pretty biased, imo. At one point there were close to a hundred servers running that could easily be found with a Google search. From my experiance it was typical to see 10-20 people or more on these servers. That means there were at least thousands of people playing jsettlers. Why leave out mention of that? Part of the history of this game is that there are unoffical versions of the video game, and that lots of people did play them, and that it's quite likely that these unofficial games played a part in popularizing the game on-line. Leaving out mention of this because the current copyright owners don't like it is like talking about a Ronald Reagan but leaving out mention the Iran-Contra Affair because it upsets Regan's family. This article is supposed to be complete not a promotion for the people currently selling the game. I can't even understand why someone would want to avoid mentioning jsettlers... unless they work for Microsoft and they are going arround cleaning up wikipedia entries. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.124.240.82 (talk) 09:56, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

It's got nothing to do with whether the copyright holders "like it" or not. Wikipedia is not a place to advertise online services, even one with a few thousand users. Percy Snoodle 10:01, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
So then take out the info about the comercial versions that are officialy licenced. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.124.240.82 (talk) 11:21, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

There is a lot of discussion on this page about links to various implementations of computer versions of Settlers of Catan. It seems to me that a couple of people keep editing out the external links and calling them spam. The links are to public servers that make no profit and if someone is interested in this game then playing on one of these server is a useful way to learn more about the game. I see how adding the links will benefit people and I see no way that adding the links detracts from the article. In fact it is my opinion that leaving the links out is quite POV and I would not be surprised to learn that the people removing them have some ulterior motive for doing so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Quelt42 (talk • contribs) 04:57, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

You misunderstand Wikipedia's guidelines on WP:SPAM -- it doesn't have to be for-profit. See also WP:EL for guidelines on external links and WP:AGF for guidelines on assuming good faith. -- JHunterJ 10:18, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

No, I think you misunderstand the point of Wikipedia. The goal is to make information available to people, not censor it for no good reason. If you scroll up you'll see that there are 4 or 5 people who want the links added and just the two of you who insist on removing them. IMO, the majority consensus says leave them in. Go look around at other topics. There are many external links to relevant services outside Wikipedia. These links are clearly labeled as external and do not hurt anyone, in fact they add benefit for most people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Quelt42 (talk • contribs) 11:01, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia may exist to make information available, but spam links don't count as "information". Anyway, if a user is seeking out computer implementations of a game, they're only a click away via the BGG link. Percy Snoodle 11:18, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
Quelt42, please see WP:CONSENSUS and WP:NOT#DEMOCRACY. The goal is not to make all information available to people, but rather to compile previously written, verifiable facts (which the unlicensed site does not provide). There are reasons for not linking the unlicensed, unnecessary site, because Wikipedia is not a collection of links. And please sign your comments by using ~~~~ -- JHunterJ 11:23, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

I looked in the history. One of you two took out even mentioning that people ran free servers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Quelt42 (talk • contribs) 20:40, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

A similar question has arisen regarding unofficial implementations of Carcassonne (board game); hopefully the above conversation will answer Zacchiro questions. Percy Snoodle 16:06, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Variations article

I first learned about Settlers of Catan on this very wikipedia Article, and the link to the Java Settlers was very useful to me. It taught me how to play, and was one of the main reasons I ended up buying the board game. Just reading about a game is not enough. To have a resource to be able to play it, and the different styles and variants that exist are very useful. Case in point? Tetris. Look at the Wikipedia Tetris article. They have a whole section on variations. They are included because they are important to both the history of the game, and to the different styles and forms. You can see something similar in just about any game you search for. So the arguments that the references to other versions don't apply here or are Spam really doesn't add up. If the links had nothing to do with the topic, then it would be spam, but just because the Open-Source Programs has some different rules or a different name, doesn't make it any less useful as a reference... I was shocked to find today that the links were removed, and I consider it rather pitiful that whoever did it went so far as to delete this from even the history. The purpose of a Wikipedia History is to preserve the integrity of the information, so if changes are made that isn't quite right, those changes can be reverted. I only just found out today about the existence of an Open Source seafarer's game. Had I known about that, I might have tried it and then bought that game too. So having that link removed before I had a chance to read the article really hurt my ability to review all information available to the game, and I am personally offended that people actually go around omitting the facts like that in an Encyclopedia... I motion to restore anything that had even the history erased, if only to establish that at one time it existed. Then if the community as a whole decides not to keep it, at least we have the history. Or maybe a decent compromise would be to set up a new Settlers of Catan Page, called "Variations of Settlers of Catan" where all the external links and extra versions can be written. And a link to that page can be placed on this one. That way it would be specifically about the variations and so everyone can be happy. The people who like to delete history can have their incomplete article, and the people who want to have all the information has a page for all the information. --Elliandr 20:07, March 26th 2008 (CST)

No. Unofficial variations don't belong on wikipedia at all, whether in a proper article or a special ghetto article. Percy Snoodle (talk) 10:16, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
The purpose of Wikipedia is not to state an opinion, but to present the facts. And the facts are that Mayfair games themselves posts information on unofficial varients on their own website with pictures to print out any everything. So the only thing people are doing by deleting the information that exists is imposing their own opinions over facts. Aside from this fact, either you consider variations of the game to be the same game or a different game. In either case if a Wikipedia Article can exist talking about one game, then wikipedia articles can exist for any game. If variations are considered to be extensions of the same game (as mayfair games appears to) then it should be included on the same page. If variations are considered to be a different game, then it should appear on a different page. --Elliandr 18:41, March 28th 2008 (CST)
If Mayfair post them, then they're at least officially sanctioned, and that may be enough to merit inclusion. Variants that Mayfair don't officially sanction don't belong here, per WP:NFT. Percy Snoodle (talk) 08:32, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Variant

We have played and tested a derived set of rules allowing 2 people to play, and still keep all the game elements as per the original version.

We have tested this over 10 games, and believe we have ironed out the rules changes needed.

I believe this would be an interesting topic to add to this page, but have no idea how to add or edit.

How is this done please ?

David Edmonds dhe@axgb.com

Well, unfortunately, your variant rules are not appropriate content for Wikipedia, as they violate our original research policy (See WP:OR). However, a great forum for your variant rules would be BoardGameGeek. I suggest you consider posting them there. Settlers BoardGameGeek entry. There's a forum just for variants. Regarding editing and adding to wikipedia, I'll refer you to this page Wikipedia:How to edit a page. Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions. -Chunky Rice 16:46, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
You could try submitting the idea directly to mayfair games. If they present the information themselves on their website, like they do other submitted variants, then I don't think it would be against Wikipedia's original research policy to just refer to something they mention about ways to play their own game. -- Elliandr 18:57, 28 March 2008 (CST)

[edit] Settlers of Catan (series)

I was thinking that it would be a good idea to create a new article titled Settlers of Catan (series) and make this article just about the original game. I'd be glad to do it if people support the idea. -Chunky Rice 16:55, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

I would keep the expansions and editions info here, but the rest of it looks worthy of its own article. --Rindis 17:11, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
I have a rough version of the proposed article here: User:Chunky Rice/Sandbox - Settlers of Catan (series). Feel free to comment or improve it. I just need to clean up a few more entries and add some cites and I will move it to the main article space. -Chunky Rice 18:32, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
Looking at that article, I think List of Settlers of Catan games or List of Catan games would be a better title; but the content looks good. It would be worth adding the word "official" somewhere in the lead sentence to make sure the article doesn't end up being farmed for exlinks. Percy Snoodle 10:04, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
good work, you have my vote Feroshki 01:09, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sources/Citations

Seems to be a lack of citations on this article, in particular I cannot find confirmation of the Nintendo DS version being announced for 2008. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.73.195.140 (talk) 00:49, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New names for expansions

The fourth English edition has renamed the expansions to "Catan: Seafarers" and "Catan: Cities & Knights" (which are closer to the style of the German, I believe). The logo has "Catan" in large type, then below it separated by a rule, "Seafarers" in smaller type. All other references on the box and manuals use the style "Catan: Seafarers" with a colon. I suggest the relevant articles and other references be changed to "Catan: Seafarers" or just "Seafarers" as appropriate. --KJBracey (talk) 12:44, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

When (if) those become the WP:COMMONNAME, sure. Until then, they don't need to change just because the boxes did. -- JHunterJ (talk) 13:06, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Catan: the computer game

I expanded the info on this game. In particular, I made it clear that the game isn't available for sale any longer and that the reason for this is that Microsoft withholds it, only offering the version that requires MSN.

At the same time I moved the images around a bit so the header "Video Games" got left justified (and not squeezed between two images reducing readability). I used bold to separate the three main sections of the video game section, feel free to reformat if there's an established Wiki way to do this.

I am aware the list of settlers games reproduces some info on each game, including this one. But I haven't changed that page - better then to await Catan: the computer game getting its own page and then moving all info there instead.

Cheers, CapnZapp (talk) 15:43, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Here's a reference for the "now available at other online services" bit: http://boardgames.about.com/b/2005/02/04/catan-online-in-more-places.htm CapnZapp (talk) 15:44, 20 May 2008 (UTC)