Talk:Seton Hall University/Archive 1

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Contents

Whitehead School of Diplomacy and International Relations

"A partial explanation for its international renown..." This is not backed up by a source, and is questionable whether or not it is an actual fact. It appears to be more of an opinion than fact.

Go to the school's website. I'm sure there's plenty of evidence to suggest and justify its "international renown." --Spartacusprime 17:08, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

SetonWorldWide Degree Programs

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SetonWorldWide's unique online degree programs combine the quality and rigor of Seton Hall University's academic programs with the flexibility of online studies to provide a truly dynamic educational experience. The following programs are available:


Master of Arts Degree in Education Leadership, Management, and Policy (ELMP); Master of Arts in Strategic Communication and Leadership (MASCL); Master of Healthcare Administration (MHA); Master of Science in Nursing - Nurse Practitioner (College of Nursing MSN); Master of Science in Nursing - Health Systems Management (College of Nursing MSN); Master of Arts in Counseling (MAC); Bachelor of Science - for Registered Nurses (College of Nursing BSN for RNs)

For more information, call 1-888-SETON-WW or visit http://www.setonworldwide.net/page/PFPD+Online+Degrees!OpenDocument.

--66.58.168.161 06:10, 5 March 2007 (UTC)bdukart

SetonWorldWide Graduate Certificate

SetonWorldWide graduate certificate programs offer a convenient, flexible way to develop valuable new skills. If you are looking for a credential in your chosen field but do not want to pursue a full Master's degree program, a certificate program may be ideal or you. And if you decide to pursue your master's degree in the future, the successful completion of your graduate certificate credits can be applied toward a full master's degree program. Find out more about the following graduate certificates:

Online Supervisor Certificate in Education Leadership, Management, and Policy (ELMP),

Online Graduate Certificate in Healthcare Administration,

Online Post Masters Certificate for Nurse Practitioners

For more information, call 1-888-SETON-WW or visit http://www.setonworldwide.net/page/New+Online+Certificate+Programs+now+enrolling!OpenDocument.

--66.58.168.161 06:08, 5 March 2007 (UTC)bdukart--66.58.168.161 06:08, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

current events, Athletic

More specifically the NCAA tourney. Information about the latest events affecting a sports team of a major university would not be considered unconsequential.

The article section before my edits:

The school's sports teams are called the Pirates. They participate in the NCAA's Division I and in the Big East Conference. Their basketball team is in the NCAA tournament, or Big Dance, this year (2006).

And after filling out this year's information:

The school's sports teams are called the Pirates. They participate in the NCAA's Division I and in the Big East Conference. Their basketball team was in the NCAA tournament or Big Dance in 2006, but the 10th seed Pirates were eliminated in a crushing 86-66 first round loss to the 7th seed Wichita State Shockers.

(affected portions in bold)

Considering it was one sentence before and one sentence after, the addition of a clause is not disruptive in any way.

hellenica 00:04, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

GA Review

I have passed this article as it meets all the requirements. Vikrant Phadkay 16:16, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

This article probably should not have passed as a GA, as I can see several issues with it. They should be fixed or else this article will very likely end up as GA Review and lose its status.
  • The lead is overall good, but could use some significant expansion. Please review WP:LEAD for tips here; the lead should adequately summarize the article. As a summary, it should not have any references (references should be in the sections of the article itself).
  • The history section looks good, but large sections of it are unreferenced. The section on the Boland Hall Fire is very short.
  • The traditions section looks ok, but the item listing for 'Alma Mater' really just lists the text of the song, all in italics. It says nothing about its use or importance to the school. Plus, there are better ways to provide the lyrics to a song than in paragraph form.
  • The schools and colleges section is really just a listing of all of the schools and colleges at the university, which can really be obtained from the school's website and not really necessary for an encyclopedia article. Every university in america has a biology, chemistry, and english department, so what's the importance of listing them here? I think that a section entitled 'academics' would be more applicable here. Provide information about the major schools (arts & sciences, education, nursing, etc), some info on their history, and some details on some of the outstanding programs within the school. What academic programs excel and are nationally or internationally recognized at Seton Hall?
  • Merge the 'campuses' section into the aforementioned 'academics' section. There are also external links in this section, which are generally discouraged from articles.
  • Expand the athletics section. After the first two paragraphs, it just lists all the sports at the school. This can go into more detail. The athletic logo (as well as the logo at the top-right of the page) also need fair use rationale (explanations) added. Simply tagging a copyrighted logo as fair-use is not enough.
  • Combine the 'student media' and 'greek life' sections into one section entitled 'student life'. Certainly there are other organizations to talk about besides the greeks and the newspaper here. The greek life section is also largely just listing the fraternities and sororities, too.
  • The 'people' section seems ok. Notable faculty should preferably be written in prose, similar to notable alumni, instead of listed.
  • The trivia section should be eliminated prior to GA status. The information there needs to either be ditched as non-notable, or incorporated into other sections of the article.
Hope this helps editors improve the article. Dr. Cash 19:32, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
This article is on hold pending the improvement of the article. The hold shall last for no more than seven days. If issues are addressed in that time, the article will retain it's GA, otherwise it will be delisted from WP:GA. Regards, Lara♥Love 15:07, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
I have re-reviewed this article on August 19, 2007, after giving a week for editors to address the issues listed above. I don't see that the issues have been addressed, so I am removing it from WP:GAC at this time. It may be renominated at some point in the future once the article meets the good article criteria. Dr. Cash 21:09, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Pirate3.jpg

Image:Pirate3.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 05:35, 16 September 2007 (UTC) -->

Plan to make the article GA, FA, or just admirable

Another editor is very interested in GA or FA. I've been asked for advice so I'll start to help. Everything is by consensus in WP and this won't change.

Here's my advice...When ever possible, get a reference. It is easier now than to hunt for them later. Make sure you get the references correct. We need to agree on a format. I think for a long article the <ref>http://msnbc.com/story</ref> is not enough. Maybe try templates. Let's agree on a style of dates. 2007-12-31 is already in use so let's stick with that.

Let's make sure all photos are free use if possible. If we need one or two fair use photos, make sure it is legimate use.

I plan to work on one section at a time. I'm sure there will be areas that I'm not familiar but then I will ask you, the experts. I also plan to look at the article as a whole and see if it's good. It's sort of analyzing the forest, not just the individual trees. We can do it! My goal is to make the article better but no specific goal (FA or GA) in mind.Congolese fufu (talk) 04:12, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Please, no plagiarism

I am shocked to see what seems to be plagiarism. If I am mistaken, that's good. See [1] Seems like word per word, it's the same. I was re-writing the section when I came across this. I have removed the information, which I found as I wa finishing re-writing it anyway. Congolese fufu (talk) 04:20, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Archive
Archives


Good article: failed

Lead

  • Is its location relative to Manhattan significant? It doesn't need to be removed, but it just struck me as unusual.
  • WP:CONTEXT: It's best not to link years unless there's a date attached to it.


History

  • Enable the dates by wikilinking.
  • "Ever Forward Campaign" section: virtually every school has regular capital campaigns. I really doubt that this marks a brand new era in Seton Hall's history, at least to the extent that we're sectionizing the school's history based on it.renamed and changed some Rankun (talk) 16:59, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
    • How can a building campaign be prestigious? Have you seen the buildings 16:59, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
  • "Boland Hall Fire" section: again, this seems too in-depth. The event definitely needs mentioning, but in context and in appropriate detail to the rest of the history.

Overall: the history section seems kind of mish-mashy. "Modernization from the 1970's" section really hits it on the nose for what kind of focus you should be engaged in in the History section: general trends, how enrollment and finances are working, major changes in campus or curriculum or leadership, with specific events (e.g. the fire) sprinkled in as necessary.


Traditions

  • This section should be discussed in prose, rather than a bulleted list. The content seems fine, but it should be introduced with a discussion of traditions at Seton Hall in general (i.e. find a cite for it and write the same thing as everyone else, "Seton Hall is a historic university rich in traditions..."), and then tell us about these three and why they're particularly important/exemplary of the subject of traditions as a whole.Rankun (talk) 16:59, 6 January 2008 (UTC)added colums
  • "Alma mater": rather than listing the lyrics (which may be copyrighted, and if so, definitely not included), tell us more about the history of the song, why it's important, when it's sung. In general, always approach the inclusion of something like this in the context of "Why did you choose this from among other things to tell us about? Why does it need mentioning? What is its importance?"
  • "Campus Fires": this sounds more like an "eery coincidence" section than a real "tradition." Should probably be sprinkled in with the "History" section, mentioned maybe alongside the discussion of the Boland Hall fire. removed!Rankun (talk) 16:59, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
    • The last sentences, The university’s strange history of campus fires has made fire safety an especially important part of campus life., is uncited. This sounds important and probably true, but it definitely needs a cite. And if it gets a cite, that's exactly the right kind of answer to my above question -- why is this nugget of information important? -- that you should include.
I think the campus fire part may be seen as original research. However, the information can be used as part of the history. I plan to do things slowly so there can be adequate discussion. So I fix this part only today and nothing else. I'll integrate it into the history.Congolese fufu (talk) 23:48, 1 January 2008 (UTC)


Campus

This section doesn't exist! It should. How big is the campus? What kind of city/town is it in? What kinds of buildings? What are the major/important/historic ones? Are there important architects? Do students live on campus? What percentage? What kind of dorms are offered?


Schools and colleges

  • Image:Bradshaw campus 749x150.jpg is pretty cool, but if it comes from the University's website (it does), it's copyrighted and not available under GFDL, nor under fair use, as it's an image of existing buildings. It should be deleted and replaced with a free image.
    • Never mind, I've deleted it. Dylan (talk) 09:36, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Ah, I see that campus is now discussed, although simply the address isn't what I'm looking for.
  • The citations should not be embedded, they should follow the dominant style in the article, which is <ref&get;.
  • Like above, this should be prose rather than a simple list. Prose can tell us a lot more than simply the names of the schools: how the university is organized, which of the schools/colleges have the highest enrollment or most famous programs, etc., etc. The subsequent sub-sections ("John C. Whitehead School of Diplomacy and International Relations", "School of Law", etc.) do a good job of this. each of the schools now have their own page seperate of the main page and they are clearly and equally listed Rankun (talk) 16:59, 6 January 2008 (UTC)


Student Life

  • Again, no list necessary. You can just say "Seton Hall offers 25 varsity sports" (or whatever the number is) and then go right into talking about the important programs. removed list and linked correctly will be adding details about each Rankun (talk) 16:59, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Image:Big East new.gif is copyrighted and not vital to this article, and should not be included. Replace with a free image of a sporting event or facility or something.
    • I've removed it. Dylan (talk) 09:36, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
  • 'Student Media": pretty good, but again, lead in with a discussion of student media in general, and then these specific publications.
  • "Greek life": You don't need to list every organization. Rather, go into more depth about the Greek system's history and popularity: show why it's important, rather than just rattling off the different houses. i belive i fixed this.. i cant remember how atm Rankun (talk) 16:59, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
    • The thing about the TKE debacle sounds probably pretty insignificant in encyclopedic coverage, unless it was truly a huge deal and had some lasting consequences. It was as was the fire because their are now strict rules involving both Rankun (talk) 16:59, 6 January 2008 (UTC)


People

  • "Notable Faculty": Discuss in prose (like "Notable Alumni") rather than a short list. Are these people all current faculty, or are some former faculty? Lots of questions go unanswered when you only provide a list! fix alot of this take another look Rankun (talk) 17:00, 6 January 2008 (UTC)


General notes:

  • In-line citations are sorely lacking. A lot of this article is uncovered by reliable citations.
  • Don't use "Ibid" in references; if you utilize the "name" parameter of <ref> (e.g. <ref name="admissions">), you can use the same citation multiple times.
  • A lot of the references are misformatted or formatted in different styles. I recommend using {{cite web}} or {{cite news}}, as they tend to be very easy to deal with.
  • Structure is okay, but there is no section on the campus or on academics in general. What kinds of undergraduate programs does Seton Hall offer? Are anything of them particularly notable -- renowned or popular? What about the organization of the university? Who's in charge of it? President? Is it part of a state university system? How's the endowment? How's research? Is it more research or teaching? I don't see any overall discussion of academics. I recommend looking at Wikipedia:WikiProject Universities#Structure and following its suggested structure.
  • There are various typos, grammatical and usage errors, formatting mistakes, capitalization issues, etc., etc. The prose is unconvincing.
  • A lot of sections need fleshing out. I see a lot of very short sections and leads (e.g. "Alumni" is just one sentence). Use good paragraph structure and prose organization.


Overall, this article needs some work. I advise you look at some university GAs and FAs at Wikipedia:WikiProject Universities/Accomplishments for an idea of what's expected of a university article. If you incorporate my suggestions here, it will be a long way towards the promotion of this article. Good luck! Let me know if any of my suggestions need clarification. Dylan (talk) 09:23, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Second GA Push

Ok guys, I guess this is for real now. I noticed that there was a surge in activity on the this SHU article in the past few days. Like many of you, I'm sure, I have been wanting to do a serious overhaul on this page to finally get GA status. I think that if we pull together, this is a very likely possibility. I didn't have too much time to deal with this until now, but as you can see, I made some significant edits, revisions and restructuring according the GA guidelines. I even went to the library (as much of a nerd as that makes me) to do some more research and that's were I got some of the PD photos that I just added. In the process, I also looked at many featured education articles and I truly believe that this current revised structure is what we should follow. Of course just like this article is far from finished so are my contributions. But I must take a breather. In the meantime, it would be great to focus on the following areas perhaps:

  • We need to create the relevant articles for the missing schools and colleges that don't already have them (I did a few already).
  • Citations (needed) throughout)- especially for the history section, I am pretty sure that most of the information came from the Seton Hall University website. Also you might wanna look at the references already used, some info might be from sources already cited.
  • The Seton Hall Pirates really need a separate and expansive article. I came across some history of the Pirates at the library and even got some old photos in the PD that I might use. However, it would be great if someone could start a page for the Pirates.

Throughout editing, I would like to remind everyone of the need to stick to GA guidelines as well as the current footnoting style. Lastly, I want to thank all of you (fellow editors) for taking the initiative on this article. If it wasn't for you guys, I probably wouldn't have sat down finally to do this research and, instead, I probably would just have continued procrastinating. Good luck and I look forward to your edits! aNubiSIII (T / C) 23:13, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Suggest that Kozlowski Hall (in the modernization section) be trimmed to a short mention. A sentence or two can be added to the building section (under Kozlowski/Jubilee Hall) mentioning the name change. Having two mentions in the article breaks things up. I'll do it in a day or two to allow time for discussion. Congolese fufu (talk) 03:46, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Picture Unit

Im going to be working on pictures after i get back on the 7th(ill take them) and ill make easy digitals before. Please use this section as basically a request for whatever picture your heart desires.. and for a reference im not quitting until this article is fa.... and will someone get this archiving working Rankun (talk) 03:26, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Probably would be good to have a good picture of the Walsh Library. But I would suggest not adding pictures otherwise or in such a way so that we keep it neat. Thanks. aNubiSIII (T / C) 18:25, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Asking for Faculty help

I sent this to the heads of all of the schools Just a HEADS UP

This represents over 300 hours of work on our part and wed like to ask for help from the faculty in that we don't completely know the entire story on most of the things and we don't know what websites are available to source and we wholly realize that you may not be able to use wikipedia at an expert level so if you have a source available please just use (source:sourcehere) to source and we will go and fix it. We would love to ask you not to edit in passive voice. You do not need to register with wikipedia.

Pictures of the paticular subjects are very much appreciated, please email them to xxxxxxxxxx and i will add them where appropriate. The pictures will need to be taken by you and you must agree to release them to the public for any use.(its not my rule its wikipedia's)

The following pages are part of this project Seton Hall-Main page

  • We especially would love for you to add yourselves to the list of notable faculty, that is if you think your of note!
  • wed love to be able to add more to the
   *College of Arts and Sciences
   *College of Education and Human Services
   *School of Graduate Medical Education
   *College of Nursing
   These can be easily changed by clicking the edit button next to them on the page.
   (The reason we dont have as much about this is that the editors are in the whitehead and         Stillman schools respectively, and we just don't know enough, please don't take offense)

The Boland hall fire The School of Theology The John C. Whitehead School of Diplomacy and International Relations The School of Law The W. Paul Stillman School of Business List of alumni We do not have a Separate list of staff, however if enough are to the list we may have reason to. We also don't have enough to add for separate pages for the other schools, however if we get enough information or if you request it and would be willing to supply us with the needed information we will even be willing to meet with you to get the required information.


Thanks again, xxxxxxxxxxx Second semester freshman at the Stillman School

xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxx  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rankun (talk • contribs) 03:45, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Regarding the new GA nomination

I'm going to let someone else officially review this for GA to avoid personally having undue influence over its fate, but in my opinion, it is still very far from ready for GA status. There is still no discussion of academics generally, it is still not properly wikified (dates, specifically) or thoroughly cited, there is still a {{fact}} tag, and I see capitalization, formatting, and usage errors rampant. It still needs a lot of work. Dylan (talk) 09:16, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree. And, that's why I quick failed the article. I will give my rationale later at User:Miranda/Seton Hall University, after I tackle UFl. And, I do not understand why this article would be nominated for GA at the same time as FA? I have compared the difs from the last FA, and little progress has been made. miranda 13:13, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
Review: More than 50% of this article is unsourced. Cites are not according to WP:CITE. People (i.e. famous alumni - needs to be cited per BLP). This section needs to be formated differently per MOS, grammar issues (I have fixed a few), no academics section, and templates do not need to substitute paragraphs (as seen with this section. miranda 18:29, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

THERE IS MOST DEFIANTELY AN ACEDEMICS SECTION, look at the schools,sheish 70.111.179.48 (talk) 21:49, 8 January 2008 (UTC)


origin of name?

Can we find a reference to where "hall" came from. Why not Seton University? Congolese fufu (talk) 03:30, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Ive oft wondered the same. I'll see if I cant ask around to get some leads. Mystache (talk) 15:34, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.