Talk:Serbian-Greek friendship
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[edit] Vandalism
Lately (and by "lately" I mean since late 2007), Serbian-Greek Friendship and and this very discussion page have been the objects of repeated vandalism. It's good that people have been vigilant in reverting these changes and deleting disruptive (and/or irrelevant) material. However, I suggest people follow my recent example and, rather than merely revert repeated vandalism, report it for administrator intervention.[1] In some cases, a warning will suffice but in other cases (especially when the individual has dedicated his account to destroying a page he doesn't like), more needs to be done; otherwise, time will be wasted reverting what could easily be prevented by an administrative block. Critias (talk) 22:20, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, the article is being vandalized yet again -- this time as part of the Macedonian naming dispute -- as at least one individual is reverting entire edits (including content that has nothing to do with the dispute, thereby bringing back typographical errors, for example, in the process) if one happens to refer to the Slav-Macedonian entity and/or Slav-Macedonian people as anything but "Macedonia" or "Macedonians". While the term "Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" (FYROM) is ridiculous, the fact remains that this is the internationally-accepted name of the Slav-Macedonian political entity (something that both Hellenes and Slav-Macedonians find less than acceptable). Aside from this fact, however, is the fact that since this is a Greek-themed article, the use of "Macedonia" in anything but a Greek context causes serious confusion among those unfamiliar with the dispute. Hence, the need for clarification in the form of "Slav-Macedonian". As I've said numerous times, "it is improper to use 'Macedonia' to refer to the Slav-Macedonian entity (especially in Greek-themed articles) as it creates confusion". The fact that Western historians who specialize in the Balkans have traditionally referred to the people of Vardarska (or, rather, those who did not accept either a Serb or Bulgarian ethnic identity as the majority of Slav-Macedonians did, at one point) as "Slav-Macedonians/Macedonian-Slavs" before (and after) they formed a strong national identity indicates that the term is not only neutral but has a strong and credible tradition.
- Even the country's first president, Kiro Gligorov, (while still in office) referred to his people as "Slav-Macedonians". Here is exactly what he said on 15 March 1992 to the Toronto Star newspaper: "We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians. That's who we are!"
- Although the individual in question who is bringing his personal politics into the article has suggested that "Macedonia/Macedonians" should be used because the Serbian state recognizes the country in question as the "Republic of Macedonia", this is irrelevant since the logic in not using the term has absolutely nothing to do with how the Greek or Serb states recognize the country but rather what is most appropriate for the article (and, in this instance, what will prevent confusion among international readers). To use "Macedonia/Macedonians" in place of "Slav-Macedonia/Slav-Macedonians" in this article would generate as much confusion as using "Vardarska"/"Vardarskans" in a Slav-Macedonian-themed article. Finally, the alteration of the terminology being used would also radically change the meaning and entire context of a number of passages (i.e. ones that refer to geographic Macedonia, etc.) Critias (talk) 21:50, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
- Nobody is using "Macedonians". "ethnic Macedonians" is used once, and instead of "FYROM" (which is a provisional reference), "Republic of Macedonia" is being used, as it is the name of the country. Tell me, how many Republics of Macedonia are there? Exactly. BalkanFever 11:54, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Serbian-Greek Friendship to Serbian-Greek Relations
Re-naming the article "Serbian-Greek Relations" was a major change and should have been discussed before it was made. This isn't just semantics. The change likely means that the entire article will have to be altered. This change is also redundant since there already was a section in the article specifically about Greek-Serbian bilateral relations. Information about bilateral relations should go there with the rest of the article focusing on the phenomenon of Greek-Serb friendship. As for the argument that the original title was NPOV, I fail to see that. The article was about a specific phenomenon that a great deal of mainstream media sources (including non-Serb/non-Greek ones) and politicians have made reference to. Bilateral relations are a part of Serbian-Greek friendship just as Serbian-Greek friendship is a part of bilateral relations but those are two separate issues since the phenomenon in question goes beyond state relations and regards society itself. Finally, it's worth mentioning that the Serbian Wikipedia article is titled Serbian-Greek friendship and not Serbian-Greek relations. That said, those who support the re-naming of the article should explain their position here so that we can reach some sort of consensus on the issue. Critias 17:07, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Poll Findings
I'm searching for news articles (Greek, Serbian, and/or international) that cite polls regarding Greek opposition to the NATO bombing in order to better reference the article. Most polls, I recall, revealed that approximately 98% of the population was against the attack but there were other findings that listed as low as 95% or as high as 99.5%. If anyone knows of any articles that cite any numbers, please post the links and the relevant text here so that we can establish a figure and reference it. Critias 16:55, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Remind me again; what exactly was Srebrenica "liberated" from? Mihovil 19:13, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
- This article is real crappy; yet, it may be saved renaming it Serbian-Greek relations.--Aldux 16:11, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] George Kastriotis
Would it be of any usefulness to mention George Kastriotis (Skanderbeg) in this article? His father was Greek and his mother was Serbian, even though he is the greatest Albanian hero...Elikarag (talk) 19:57, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
- I doubt mentioning him would be useful. Regardless of his ancestry or his personal ethno-national identity (both of which are contested), Albanians seem to be the only ones who celebrate him as a national hero (irrespective of how strong his alleged Albanian identity was). I know that cases have been made about him being of Greek, Serb, or Greek-Serbian background but neither Serbs nor Greeks celebrate him. (Furthermore, although it is certain that he was brought up a Muslim after becoming a hostage to the Turks, his later religious loyalty is unknown -- as far as I know -- with conflicting reports of him being Catholic or Orthodox; it goes without saying that he would not have been considered to be a Greek/Serb either by the standards of his time or today's standards if he was not Orthodox.) Given the high incidence of Serbs and Greeks marrying, there are many notable individuals of both Greek and Serb ancestry, from medieval times up to today, who would be much better candidates. I suggest we rely on such figures. Critias (talk) 23:19, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
