Talk:Serapis

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Contents 1 Requested move 1.1 Voting 1.2 Discussion 2 Serapis-worshippers called Christians

[edit] Requested move

Serapis (mythology) → Serapis:

• "Serapis" overwhelmingly refers to the Egyptian god. The Babylonian god is rather rare, and by the way also qualifies as "mythology", making the existing name of the Egyptian god's article improper.

[edit] Voting

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~~~~

• Support This will of course require an admin --Lox (t,c) 15:12, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
• Support PHG 07:29, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Add any additional comments

• Commment Serapis currently redirects to Serapis (disambiguation) which currently links to Serapis instead of Serapis (mythology). I have fixed this, but if the page is moved, it will have to be changed again. --Lox (t,c) 15:11, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Moved. —Nightstallion (?) 13:50, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Serapis-worshippers called Christians

I deleted the article's quotation from the Augustan History (Firmus et al. 8). This was readded by User:PHG, so I'd better explain why I thought the article needed editing. Below, I quote part of the letter and its context in the History, from the translation at LacusCurtius:

For the Egyptians, as you know well enough, are puffed up, madmen, boastful, doers of injury, and, in fact, liars and without restraint, always craving something new, en [sic] in their popular songs, writers of verse, makers of epigrams, astrologers, soothsayers, quacksalvers. Among them, indeed, are Christians and Samaritans and those who are always ill-pleased by the present, though enjoying unbounded liberty. But, lest any Egyptian be angry with me, thinking that what I have set forth in writing is solely my own, I will cite one of Hadrian's letters, taken from the works of his freedman Phlegon, which fully reveals the character of the Egyptians.

From Hadrian Augustus to Servianus the consul, greeting. The land of Egypt, the praises of which you have been recounting to me, my dear Servianus, I have found to be wholly light-minded, unstable, and blown about by every breath of rumour. There those who worship Serapis are, in fact, Christians, and those who call themselves bishops of Christ are, in fact, devotees of Serapis. There is no chief of the Jewish synagogue, no Samaritan, no Christian presbyter, who is not an astrologer, a soothsayer, or an anointer. Even the Patriarch himself, when he comes to Egypt, is forced by some to worship Serapis, by others to worship Christ. [The letter continues on to non-religious matters.]

It seems fairly clear to me that the letter's claim is that the Egyptians were involved in practices inconsistent with the religions they claimed; "Serapis-worshippers" worshipping Christ, "bishops of Christ" worshipping Serapis, and "Jews", "Samaritans" and "Christians" involved in astrology, etc. Note that the author of the History is using the letter as evidence for his claims about the character of Egyptians. However, the article has been citing the letter in connection with the following statement: "Followers of Serapis were called Christians as demonstrated in a letter from Emperor Hadrian to Servianus, 134. (Quoted by Giles, ii p86)" I interpreted this as meaning that worship of Serapis was sufficient for someone to be called a "Christian" (rather than merely that some people called themselves Christians and also worshipped Serapis).

Further problems with this statement were (a) that it assumed the authenticity of the letter's ascription to Hadrian, although the Historia Augusta is regarded as containing many forged sources (see its entry); and (b) that it contained an incomplete citation. I've left the quotation in the article this time, citing an online translation for it, but I've edited the introductory sentence, as it seems to me that this was problematic. My apologies if deleting the whole thing was excessive. EALacey 15:06, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the great background information! Regards PHG 21:55, 27 August 2006 (UTC)