User talk:Sephia karta

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sephia karta is busy in real life and may not respond swiftly to queries.
Hello Sephia karta! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking Image:Wikisigbutton.png or using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Below are some recommended guidelines to facilitate your involvement. Happy Editing! —Khoikhoi 17:37, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Re: Lake Ritsa

The article is ok now. IMHO it is an article about a lake, so having to define an area "de facto", "de jure", "brekaway" etc. is an overkill, see the article on the area if You (the reader) are interested. The 1st sentence just looks doltish with those definitions. That's just MHO, feydey 19:35, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

The topic came up in the talk for the Abkhazia article: since Abkhazia's status is disputed, how do we refer to it in other articles? It won't do to outline both positions every time Abkhazia is mentioned, that would be far too cumbersome. I consider "Georgia's breakaway republic Abkhazia" to be a fair summary, but I am also happy with how things are worded now in the Lake Ritsa article, because this wording manages to imply the ambiguity of Abkhazia's status.Sephia karta 23:51, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stubs

Sephia, did your new Abkhazia stub pass the right proposals for stub creation and all that? Or did you just create it from scratch on your own initiative? If the latter, you might run into a deletion review in the near future. It happened with me, on the Transnistria stub. However, we passed with flying colors. Please let me know. - Mauco 03:12, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I only discovered about that procedure once I had already started. I decided to go through with it and I 'turned myself in' afterwards, explained the situation, I'll have to see how things go.sephia karta 01:16, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] the Abkhazia tag deletion

Closing time guideline

You stated "According to the guideline, after 10 days, a rfd may be closed if consensus has been reached." Not to sound rude, but where in the world did you get that information? According to WP:SFD, "After a voting period of seven days, action will be taken if there is consensus on the fate of the stub type." This is the appropriate guideline to cite. Also, I even let the discussion run 1 an extra day before deleting.

Consensus

Here were the votes:

  • Delete (7)
    • Grutness
    • Alai
    • Valentinian
    • Ldingley
    • Khoikhoi
    • Kober
    • Clevelander
  • Keep (2)
    • Sephia karta
    • Patricknoddy

Yes, many of the delete votes do not give a specific reason, but that is not required. If you want to go that way, Patricknoddy also did not give any specific reason either. If you count only the people who gave reasons, here are the votes:

  • Delete (4)
    • Grutness
    • Alai
    • Ldingley
    • Valentinan
  • Keep (1)
    • Sephia karta

That still shows consensus to delete.

Motivation to delete

You are incorrect in one of your assessments: "They overlap with other stub categories, or duplicate them outright" I would claim that it overlaps with {{Georgia-stub}}. Cat:Georgia (country) stubs is not over-large, so there is no real need to split it out into even more sub-types.

Edit-wars & high-risk

While there have not been any edit wars recently, the template is still high-risk. Often when it comes to the images. Any change in a template repeatedly causes unnecessary strain on the servers.

NPOV

I'm not sure how the deletion really violates NPOV. As I saw it (and demonstrated in my first section), consensus was reached, so I deleted it. I did not take a side in this issue and was merely acting as the closing admin for this discussion. If you have issues regarding NPOV, perhaps you should take that up with the editors who participated in the discussion.

My suggestion

I think what would have been most beneficial here would have been a separate {{Abkhazia-stub}} that feeds into Cat:Georgia (country) stubs (this is known as upmerging). Alai did suggest that, but no one else seemed to take him up on that idea.

I hope I was able to answer all your questions. If you still have any concerns, please let me know. ~ Amalas rawr =^_^= 15:37, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for taking you time to answer my questions, some things are clearer to me now, whereas others aren't yet.
Closing time guideline

Where I said 10 days, I meant 7 days, I was quoting from memory there, sorry. (I can no longer find the page where I had the quote from.) I did not in fact suspect you of having closed the rfd early, my point was that while the minimum time had passed, you could have chosen to keep the rfd open until the debate had come to an end. In review, I don't know whether you can, actually, I haven't been able to find a page that clearly outlines the procedure.)

Consensus

Still what you are doing there though is counting votes. While there was a 'consensus' in votes, there was no consensus in the debate. It is not always possible to achieve this but one should at least try, and this one did not do. There was a lack of consensus because my arguments were not challenged. I find it puzzling how an rfd that does not care to respond to the arguments against deletion is allowed to succeed.

Motivation to delete

Ah, I see what you mean. However, to rule that it exclusively overlaps with the Georgian stub category is to take a side in the dispute over Abkhazia. Reading back I see that Grutness alluded to this in passing. It could have been much more clearly stated and it would be helpful if the motivation behind a deletion is mentioned explicitly both in the initial rfd and with the closure of the debate.

Edit-wars & high-risk

It may potentially cause strain to the server, but this fact can not overrule the NPOV policy. And even if it could, it would have to be an outlined principle maintained consistently, not a claim to be made ad hoc when convenient. You did not adress the fact that it is in fact quite normal for disputed areas to have their own stub category, despite the risk of edit wars.

NPOV

I did not mean to imply (though I guess I did) that your act of deletion was a breach of NPOV. Rather, I meant that as a part of your evaluating the arguments back and forth, you should have found that the breach of NPOV caused by a deletion was the strongest argument being made.

Your suggestion

I don't see how this is fundamentally different though from the Abkhazia stub category being a sub-category of the Georgia stub category, which was the arrangment.


As you will have noticed, I am still strongly opposed to the deletion. I would like to ask your advice on what it is that is currently standing between the Abkhazia stub category and Wikipedia. Is it merely the too small size of the stub category Georgia? sephia karta 15:14, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WPW newsletter

The Writing systems WikiProject Newsletter
Issue I - December 2006
News
  • Welcome to the newsletter of the Writing systems WikiProject, everyone. Our project currently has 29 members.
  • Any questions or requests for assistance on writing system articles can be posted at WT:WPW.
  • Our Article Assessment Project is currently underway. Feel free to contribute by assessing and improving all unassessed articles according to the assessment page. Any help is appreciated. We would like to bring all mid-, high-, and top-importance articles to at least B class by the end of the year.
  • We are working on implementing writing systems templates into appropriate articles. Try to help out!
Writing system
articles		 Importance
Top High Mid Low None Total
Quality
Featured article FA 1 1 2
A 1 1 2
Good article GA 1 2 3
B 16 17 40 19 19 111
Start 11 29 57 70 42 209
Stub 7 27 110 28 172
List 1 2 1 6 10
Assessed 30 58 126 200 95 509
Unassessed 1 2 36 780 819
Total 31 60 126 236 875 1328

To subscribe or unsubscribe this newsletter, or if you would like to edit the next issue, please drop a message on the discussion page.

This is the project's first newsletter. If you have any questions, comments, or ideas about it, feel free to post it on WT:WPW. Thanks. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 23:20, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Speedy deletion of Image:Flag of Abkhazian SSR.svg

A tag has been placed on Image:Flag of Abkhazian SSR.svg, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done for the following reason:

this is an SVG with an embedded bitmap image; true SVG image with the same name exists on Commons

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not meet very basic Wikipedia criteria may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as an appropriate article, and if you can indicate why the subject of this article is appropriate, you may contest the tagging. To do this, add {{hangon}} on the top of the page and leave a note on the article's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would confirm its subject's notability under the guidelines.

For guidelines on specific types of articles, you may want to check out our criteria for biographies, for web sites, for bands, or for companies. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Himasaram 00:06, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Speedy deletion of Image:Flag of Abkhazian ASSR.svg

A tag has been placed on Image:Flag of Abkhazian ASSR.svg, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done for the following reason:

this is an SVG with an embedded bitmap image; true SVG image with the same name exists on Commons

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not meet very basic Wikipedia criteria may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as an appropriate article, and if you can indicate why the subject of this article is appropriate, you may contest the tagging. To do this, add {{hangon}} on the top of the page and leave a note on the article's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would confirm its subject's notability under the guidelines.

For guidelines on specific types of articles, you may want to check out our criteria for biographies, for web sites, for bands, or for companies. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Himasaram 02:06, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Good job!

Thanks for a long-needed work with Akhazia's administrative division. I'll try to improve those articles. Btw, where did you get the information about the boundaries of Tkvarcheli district? Regards. Alæxis¿question? 08:41, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! I had given up hope on finding a map where the boundaries of Tkvarcheli are visible, but I found one at www.apsny.ru:
http://www.apsny.ru/republic/republic.php?page=content/adm_mestnoye/adm_mestnoye.htm
It looks like it was carved out of both Ochamchira and Gali but I'm not sure whether that's actually the case. Do you? sephia karta 15:30, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
Actually I saw this map but I didn't notice district boundaries there ))
I think you're right about the formation of the Tkvarcheli district - Okum village is located in the old Gali district (see here, for example) while here it's written that Okum (together with Chkhortol and Bedia) are in the Tkvarcheli district. Alæxis¿question? 15:54, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
Is the city of Sukhum actually a seperate administrive entity from the district? I noticed that they are listed speerately in the census data, but that in itself doesn't need to mean much. There is no mention of it in Abkhazia's constitution, and if it is so, then what would the district's capital be? sephia karta 12:00, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Here is another map with the borders of Tkuarchal district. Alæxis¿question? 18:00, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Abkhaz people

Why do ascribe Abkhaz ethnicity to every person related to Abkhazia? "Abkhaz" is an ethnonym and should not be applied to Georgians or other non-Abkhaz people associated with Abkhazia. Thanks, --KoberTalk 13:38, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
As far as I understand it, the category is not just for ethnic Abkhaz, but also for people just from Abkhazia. Indeed, before I sorted these people, there were already non-ethnic Abkhaz in the Abkhaz politicians category, such as Armenians and Georgians. sephia karta 13:41, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
Then we should create Category:Politicians of Abkhazia or something like this. --KoberTalk 13:42, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
That would work, I guess, but do you really perceive Abkhaz as referring only to ethnic Abkhaz? Would Abkhazian work better for you? sephia karta 13:45, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I mean, I do believe that in general on Wikipedia it suffices for someone to be born in a place X to be called Xan, such as Eliza Mustafa Zadeh being in the Georgian people category also despite being ethnically Azeri. sephia karta 13:48, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm... strange. I removed Eliza Mustafa Zadeh from that category just a few days ago. Anyway, I think it is not so easy distinguish between "Abkhaz" and "Abkhazian" because these terms are frequently used interchangeably. This sort of categorization is potentially confusing for those who are not well familiar with the situation around Abkhazia. And what's wrong with Category:Politicians of Abkhazia?--KoberTalk 13:52, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
I guess it's fine, I was just concerned that it might break the usual naming scheme. I'm undecided though on whether it should be People 'of' or people 'from' Abkhazia. sephia karta 13:56, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
Having thought about it some more, I strongly prefer People from Abkhazia over both Abkhaz(ian) People and People of Abkhazia, and having an inclusive sense of including both past and present residents. sephia karta 14:00, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
I think it would be the best solution to the problem, but a special category for ethnic Abkhaz people could also be retained. Thanks, --KoberTalk 14:05, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
I think that there won't be any need for that until/unless we have articles on Abkhaz from the diaspora. Thank you as well. sephia karta 14:09, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Sergei_Bagapsh_signature.svg

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[edit] Aspiration marks

I was going off of the Abkhaz phonology page, which says nothing about aspiration. Actually... I'm having trouble finding sources that say anything about aspiration in Abkhaz. If you'd like to revert me, go ahead. I started "fixing" the page when I realized that it was so completely unsourced that I didn't know if I was making it better or worse. Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 20:19, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reply

You might want to ask for help on Commons, as I only deleted the redundant image on Wikipedia. It seems to be more of a problem on the Commons side. I apologize for my inability to help. —Kurykh 18:35, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Conflict template

I changed it because:

Cheers, --TheFEARgod (Ч) 12:32, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

well, I would like to see the G-Abkhaz, G-Ossetian conflicts + G-Russian relations merged into one Template:Chechen wars-looking template. That would be a good compromise as your wish will be pleased (the articles will be in vertical) and mine (bottom of the article) --TheFEARgod (Ч) 12:53, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
see the template now. add things that miss please, I just don't have the time --TheFEARgod (Ч) 13:19, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] CfD

It wasn't listed I never intended to delete the category, merely rename it. This is a persistent problem with these categories, and I would personally prefer if they were "Persons from X" to avoid the exact issue that you raise. Unfortunately, the standard is to name them "X-ian people." I will list the CfD sometime (I have been lackadaisical about it, sorry), and when I do, you can suggest "Abhkazia people" instead, but really the whole "ethnic group versus citizenship/territorial origin" problem is always going to be a problem with any adjectival form like this. On an unrelated note, please let me humbly suggest that you include a link to your talk page in your signature. -Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 02:33, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

If this category must be renamed for some reason then it should be renamed to "Abkhazian people" rather than "Abkhaz people" because the latter almost always refers to ethnic Abkhaz while the former could mean both ethnic Abkhaz and those who dwell in Abkhazia. Alæxis¿question? 10:41, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Gagra district map

Hi! Can you see this map? I'd like to know whether it's my personal problem or it has somehow disappeared. Regards, Alæxis¿question? 10:35, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

That's great, thank you. Alæxis¿question? 12:42, 30 March 2008 (UTC)