Talk:SEPTA

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Contents 1 Map request 2 Move 3 Primary topic disambiguation 4 Split 5 No more trackless trolly 6 SEPTA reputation 7 Word Root 8 Attempted Suicide 6/8/2006 9 What is "quasi-public"? 10 Service area. 11 Fleet Information 12 SEPTA today 13 SEPTA Station Naming Conventions 14 2007 Service Reductions 15 Reduction in Service 16 Expected SEPTA Service Levels, Effective September 2007 17 Subway (Orange and Blue Lines) 18 Bus (All Routes) 19 Bus route table 20 Philadelphia Metro Area Transit Project 21 Link Restored 22 TfD nomination of Template:SEPTA-stub 23 SEPTA Routes 24 Requested move 24.1 Survey 24.2 Discussion 25 management structure? 26 Fare History 27 Suggested corrections 28 Trivia and Obama

[edit] Map request

It is requested that a map or maps be included in this article to improve its quality. Wikipedians in Philadelphia, New Jersey or Delaware may be able to help!

I've added a map of the SEPTA system, however, I don't know what to say about licensing issues and thus the picture is supposed to be deleted in a week. My source for the map is http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~srini/courses/cs1322/class14/septa.jpg, but the map itself is apparently copyrighted by SEPTA, 1998. I recall that versions of this map have appeared on this Wikipedia page before, and other websites that cache Wikipedia confirm this: http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/7/74/300px-SEPTA_Strike.jpg. Then again, maybe the reason why the original map was deleted from this page was because of copyright issues. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DisgruntledWaterlooStudent (talk • contribs) 01:56, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

A different map with the same things has been placed in the article. --AEMoreira042281 17:15, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Move

Moved page to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority, the agency's real name (verifiable from the reverse of a token.) --CComMack 09:24, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

This page also needs mentioning of the R100 "high speed [sic] line" between Norristown and 69th street station, and the R101 and R102 tram (trolley?) lines south of 69th street station. Abigail 02:08, Mar 5, 2004 (UTC)

The 101 and 102 routes are trolley lines, I've taken the 101 many times myself. I'm afraid I'm not in a position to write a whole entry about them at this point, though, sorry. --Dirk Gently 04:06, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Agreed. Also needs fleshing out of Regional Rail Lines (prototype page at SEPTA R3 Elwyn). Should subway and el stop lists be moved to their own page? (List of Philadelphia metro stops?) Also, more attention should be paid to streetcar lines, past and present; minimally, the subway-surface lines could use enumeration. --CComMack 14:43, 7 Mar 2004 (UTC)

It'd be nice if someone could track down what happened to the R4, too... Maybe a little history of the rail lines... Bobson 05:22, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I wrote a section about the R4 line. Abigail 12:45, Apr 15, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Primary topic disambiguation

What do people think about moving this to SEPTA (or having this redirect there) and moving SEPTA to SEPTA (disambiguation)? Out of the top 100 google results, 76 are for the transit system, and about half the others are for the plural of septum. --SPUI 14:19, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Moving to SEPTA would go against relevant Wikipedia naming conventions, in my opinion. Causing SEPTA to redirect here and moving the current to SEPTA (disambiguation) is something I would support, but am lukewarm about. CComMack 10:18, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The main reason I'm proposing the move is that I'm tired of typing [[Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority|SEPTA]] every time; a redirect would accomplish that. I'll give it a few more days and do it if there are no objections. --SPUI 19:31, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I support either proposition. Having the article here doesn't make much sense. Chazzoz 21:35, Jan 19, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Split

I've completed a split into individual articles; the page was getting rather long and unwieldly. --SPUI 05:45, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

While the page's former length wasn't an inherent problem, it certainly was rather incoherent. This is much better now, and I thank you. Outstanding issues: List of Philadelphia subway stations has one link to it left to fix: how do you propose dealing with it? Norristown High Speed Line has some redirects that I would fix myself, but I'm going to be late for class. --CComMack 11:50, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Replying to myself with a quick addendum: for the yet-to-be-written article on the 101 and 102, does Suburban trolley routes (SEPTA) work better as an article title (in the "Line name (agency)" nomenclature that seems to be the emerging standard)? Or do we want Media and Sharon Hill rail lines, perhaps?

I used the terms that the schedules use. Is there a normally-used name for the lines, like Norristown High Speed Line for the 100? I guess the current name might be a problem if the 15 ever starts, so I would support a change to SEPTA Suburban Trolley Lines. By the way, do you know anything about the early history of the PATCO Speedline and where it connected on the Philly side? The sources I've found conflict. --SPUI 19:28, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The link to the list seems fine to me; it takes you to the main SEPTA page where you can choose which of the two lines you want. --SPUI 19:28, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] No more trackless trolly

SEPTA suspened all trackless trolley routes in 2001 1. --Boothy443 08:29, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] SEPTA reputation

Is there any objective way to include SEPTA's reputation, that is to say, what the people think of it? I'm originally from New York, and have lived D.C., London and Israel-Palestine, and nowhere have I found as bizaarely organized a mass transit system as SEPTA. Even the Palestinians under occupation, and the Israelis faced with bus bombings, do a better job at scheduling and coverage. For instance, why is that there is such redudancy in bus routes in Center City and barely any buses for the Greater Northeast, West or South Philly? Why is it that commuters are expected to pay what amounts to a discounted Metro North fee to ride the Regional Rails?--there should be bus or trolley service to these areas, not a mini-Amtrack. Etc etc. -Chris Schwartz

You've got a point, though I can't think of any way these sort of things could be included in an NPOV sort of way. ("Criticisms of SEPTA," or what?) With all the problems it's had recently (nearly shutting down all service on weekends, for example), there should definitely be something, though I don't know what, exactly. --Dirk Gently 18:52:34, 2005-08-10 (UTC)

Maybe some historical perspective would explain the situation somewhat. SEPTA inherited bus and trollley routes from the PTC, Red Arrow, and other private transit companies. Later, they inherited the commuter rail lines from Conrail, who in turn inherited them from the bankrupt Penn Central and Reading companies. The separate companies had separate fare structures and routes and competed with each other, so there are a lot of features that would never have happened under a centrally planned system. An article on the historical foundation of SEPTA may be relevant, but the current issues with SEPTA management are more of a debate issue that belongs in a forum. --Luciuskwok 21:31, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

That seems reasonable; I think some information on the history of the organization would help people (such as me and Chris) understand its current situation. --Dirk Gently 17:41:16, 2005-08-13 (UTC)

No, there's essentially no way to discuss the general opinion of SEPTA while maintaining any semblance of NPOV. If it were only incredibly inconvenient, or expensive, or crappily run, or staffed by the surliest people ever, that'd be ok. The galling thing is, it's all of those things, all at once. It's hard to believe this is the 5th largest city in the US.

My God, yes! I've actually said nearly the same thing (in nearly the same words) to myself (and anyone else around) countless times while riding/waiting for/waiting on SEPTA.

--I think we should note that the rail map that SEPTA uses is not at all to scale. Anyone familiar with the Philadelphia area can see this easily, but I think the map gives a distorted impression of the scope of SEPTA's service - when in fact as many of us know, they give very limited service to many areas.

[edit] Word Root

I haven't seen anything anywhere with an explanation of SEPTA's root. (Latin: seven) I was wondering if anyone knows of any relation.

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Someone new to Philadelphia actually asked me about this recently. I didn't know, but I don't think there's a connection; SEPTA is just an acronym for Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority, and presumably this acronym was chosen to be pronouncable. SEPTA serves the five-county Philadelphia region (and five is not seven), and as far as I know doesn't have seven of anything.

Izzycat 01:39, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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Besides, Latin for seven is "septem".

207.245.124.66 13:52, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

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Never heard of this connection. However, once when I was in 30th Street Station, a traveler asked me how to get to "Septum". I told her that it was underneath the cartilage of the nose.  :)

- Sensor 23:19, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

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and of course, people who want to inslt it occasionally call it "Septic".

---

I'm pretty sure there's a connection. I just forgot what it is. But I'm also pretty sure that the connection is just a coincidence.

[edit] Attempted Suicide 6/8/2006

Hey everybody, I was a passenger in the front car of the El that was struck by a jumper from the platform yesterday. I'm looking for any information regarding the jumper (amazingly, he survived the impact, crashing through the front door, but I don't know if he lived much longer afterwards) and the conductor. Any information would be greatly appreciated. --Christopher Schwartz, Philadelphia City Paper 139.84.48.249 16:13, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What is "quasi-public"?

This article claims SEPTA is a quasi-public state agency; the link links to "public benefit corporation", however. Ken Arromdee 20:43, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Service area.

As wrongfully stated in the topic "Word Root" SEPTA does indeed service seven counties. They include Bucks, Chester, Delaware, Montgomery, and Philadelphia Counties in Pennsylvania, New Castle County in Delaware (Newark, Churchmans Crossing, Wilmington, and Claymont on the R2 Regional Rail line,) and Mercer County in New Jersey (Trenton on the R7 and West Trenton on the R3.)

That's inconsequential nitpicking. The acronym SEPTA predates their acquisition of the regional rail system. Since you're basing this "seven" thing on the number of counties the RRD services, your logic is flawed; when SEPTA was chartered in 1963, that number would have been nine, since the R6 Norristown line terminated in Pottsville (Reading County) and the present-day R5 Doylestown terminated in Bethlehem (Lehigh County).

The "history" section of the article makes it very clear: SEPTA grew out of SEPACT (Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Compact), the agency which coordinated the various public transportation services between Philadelphia, Montgomery, Bucks, and Chester Counties back in the 1960s. "SEPTA" is just an acronym that sounded good, no deeper meaning required. --Cardinal biggles 18:06, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fleet Information

I was wondering that perhaps the information on the SEPTA fleet (e.g. Rail Cars, Subway Cars, Buses, etc.) could be moved to the articles on their respective lines, thus freeing up space for information about SEPTA proper on this article. Of course, as there is no article for the buses or trackless trolleys yet, that Fleet information may have to stay here. Anyway, I would like to generate some discussion on this point before trying any action.-- danntm ^T _C 00:45, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] SEPTA today

Some people who despise SEPTA uses cars or a Taxi to go to their destination (if car users can endure the gas price hikes.)

Right now, SEPTA is becoming one of the worst Public Transit Agencies in the U.S.

Keenrich 20:50, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] SEPTA Station Naming Conventions

Just so everyone knows, I proposed a while back naming conventions for SEPTA stations, with discussion here. The proposed conventions will require considerable changes for MFL stations. Please feel free to contribute there.-- danntm ^T _C 16:28, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 2007 Service Reductions

I can find no pages corroborating the entries listed under "Expected SEPTA Service Levels, Effective September 2007". Can a link or reference to this data please be provided? On philly.com, I only find an editorial which states that the current crisis is being met with a LACK of calls for drastic reduction, so I'd like to see where the above section got its facts. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 161.88.255.139 (talk) 15:09, 8 December 2006 (UTC).

Until someone can provide references, I've moved the section here: Marnanel 16:32, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Good work, Marnanel. Although drastic service cuts were implicit, absent restructing of how PA funds transportation, there has been no publicly released plan I know about of service cuts. And absent the actual plan, there is no verifiability, and we can only speculate.-- danntm ^T _C 22:34, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

As of 3 February, there has been no official determination as to what services would be discontinued or eliminated. I highly doubt that SEPTA would come up with something that extreme (though it's counterpart system in Pittsburgh has a similar doomsday proposal).Ctrabs74 02:54, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reduction in Service

Plans are in the works to rapidly reduce service levels for SEPTA, in order to balance anticipated budget deficits for FY07-08.

[edit] Expected SEPTA Service Levels, Effective September 2007

[edit] Subway (Orange and Blue Lines)

Operate Subway Lines During Peak Times Only. Eliminate Mid-Day, Evening, and Weekend Service. Subway Service Weekdays from 6AM-9AM and 4PM-7PM. Trains will run every 30 minutes during these times.

[edit] Bus (All Routes)

Eliminate and or Consolidate 75 Bus Routes. Eliminate Weekend Service. Elminate Evening Service. Operate Bus Routes from 5AM to 7PM, Weekdays Only. Reduce Peak Service by 75% Eliminate Mid-day Service on 65% of remaining routes

Green Line (Trolley Routes)

Convert to Diesel Bus Service Operate Diesel Buses on existing Trolley Routes during peak times only, every 30 minutes.

Regional Rail (Eliminate Weekend, Mid-day, and Evening Service) Operate only from 5AM-9AM, and 3PM-8PM. Operate Trains every 60 minutes on all lines.

[edit] Bus route table

I think these tables are fine (though they would be better with a history column - see list of bus routes in Manhattan), but should be moved to a separate article. List of Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority bus routes? --NE2 20:41, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

• I agree completely, a separate article can much better handle the table, as currently the table is taking up far too much space. My only fear is that list of bus routes can be iffy at AFD.`-- danntm ^T _C 00:21, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
  • If you include the history, especially as former streetcar lines, there shouldn't be a problem. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of bus routes in London was closed as keep (not even no consensus) even without that information. [1] and [2] are good starting points for that information; if you have access to a Philly newspaper archive you can then find better reliable sources, or if not leave that to someone who does. --NE2 01:21, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Yes, I think the history section will help provide added value to the table, thus making the article safer. Thus, I say go for it. -- danntm ^T _C 18:03, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
  • The bus routes were moved to separate articles today---similar to what has been done with routes for the MTA and New Jersey Transit. The moves have been completed. AEMoreira042281 21:36, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Philadelphia Metro Area Transit Project

Seeing how there's a similar project for New York City metro area transit operators, I was wondering if anyone would be open to a similar project for the Philadelphia area, with links to the SEPTA, NJT (South), and DART pages. --Ctrabs74 23:20, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Maybe you should ask that at [[|Wikipedia:WikiProject_Philadelphia#Philadelphia Task ForcesWikipedia:WikiProject Philadelphia]]? --evrik ^(talk) 17:02, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Link Restored

To whomever removed the link to Krapf's Transit from this page, the link is relevant in that (1) they operate bus service that connects to the SEPTA system and (2) they are a third-party contractor for 4 bus routes in Chester County. Therefore, it's a relevant link and his since been restored. Ctrabs74 22:55, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] TfD nomination of Template:SEPTA-stub

Template:SEPTA-stub has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. — Crashintome4196 02:43, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] SEPTA Routes

I see articles on specific routes have been deleted, are these notable?.

Ex:

• SEPTA Route 108 tagged for speedy deletion. VoltronForce 00:25, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

[edit] management structure?

i'm wondering if anyone knows anything about the management structure of septa? or who the assistant general managers are? what are faye moore's qualifications? i'm having a tough time finding any info on her. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.99.23.226 (talk) 15:29, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fare History

Need a history of fares and when it went up?Radio Guy (talk)

The fares section needs to be rewritten to not be a copy and paste of the official site, but a quick run down of the different types of fares in use - the base fare, and the different concessions and discounts for bulk purchases. Wongm (talk) 14:58, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Just want to tease New Yorkers who complain about high fares when Philly went to $2 a decade before and these NYers are so parochial to not know!Radio Guy (talk) 15:58, 23 December 2007 (UTC) :)

[edit] Suggested corrections

The following was posted to the help desk--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 20:13, 24 March 2008 (UTC):

You have misidentified SEPTA's North Philadelphia Station on the R7 line as North Broad Station which is on our Main Line. To complicate matters there is a second North Philadelphia Station. This one is on our R8 Line literally just a stone's throw away. I can mark them on my computer but am not sure how to edit your current marker to the proper location. Mick Wolk Operations Planner Regional Railroad SEPTA

[edit] Trivia and Obama

I removed a small section on Obama's April 2008 statement for a variety of reasons. First, it had nothing to do with SEPTA directly, but was instead directed at people in small towns in PA or in rural areas. And although the statement did mention lack of economic opportunity, it mischaracterized the statements as referring to violence and gun as the resort of the bitter - failing both to provide a quote, or an attribution OR any specific connection to SEPTA. Instead, it just left the reader to guess that perhaps SEPTA is violent and that Obama somehow meant that it is the result of economic downturn in PA. The value of the statement was certainly lacking. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.93.222.184 (talk) 19:10, 15 April 2008 (UTC)