User talk:SeoR

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New user, May 2007. Dublin, Meath and beyond. Edit interests around Dublin localities and history, ditto for parts of Meath, Cork and the rest of Ireland, myth and folklore, libraries, fantasy and science fiction, including Irish authors in those areas, Gaeilge, some industry areas, and generally working towards a more linked-up world (long-time on Web, several sites). Will also join Commons, aiming to add content from own stores, including current photography and historic mapping. Looking forward to this work, having made suggestions and provided material to existing Wikipedians in the past (and had the "compliment" of having some of my material "borrowed" too), and hoping to find an interesting and (fairly) harmonious community.

SeoR 09:02, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Going to Commons tomorrow, with photography taken the other weekend, etc. Fingers crossed... SeoR 23:28, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Finally got to Commons properly mid-June, and while I have been work-occupied most of the last ten days, got some time to explore Commons, set up an ID, accept the trigger mail, and now starting a little uploading. SeoR 10:05, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi,

Thanks for the re-edit of the IR entry in the DCU Library section. The service has not been officially launched but it is operational. Resource and preservation metadata is being currently exposed and harvested and attendant resources accessed. The process of service advocacy continues and deposits are being added - both platform and service are a stable release and not a pilot.

The library section needs expansion and flagging the IR service needs to be cited within the overall service context. Any comments you have regarding this please let me know.

Regards,

Garret McMahon - DCU Library

'Welcome. I hope my edit was not seen as in any way negative, the IR concept is excellent but in an open excyclopedia, we need to make it accessible / comprehensible, and the original note was an "orphan" few words, which I tried to integrate with the revised note. Best of luck with the ongoing work, and hope the pilot is running smoothly.

I note the query re. the use of "pilot" but also note that this is the term used in DCU's own publicity re. the matter. Perhaps a different term can be constructed relating to "pre-launch" or "fully functional trial". SeoR 09:02, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome

Thank you very much / Buiochas! I also hope to have a good and interesting time. Regards! SeoR 19:23, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] In response to Category_talk:Blanchardstown

I'm more of a vandal-fighter, than someone who does much work on Wikipedia - and I've only gone so far as registered on the Vicipéid.

I have however taken it upon myself to make Dunboyne better, since it is where I live - and plus beforehand it was in such a sorry state..... -- TheChrisD™ 15:24, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

That sounds useful and important. I myself have run into what looks like marketing "planting" already but of course as an ordinary reader / user, I saw some vandalism (usually childish) and heard of other incidents.

On Blanchardstown, perhaps if we see if there are other articles which could provide enough bulk for a category; as the city's second-biggest suburban area, it probably has enough... SeoR 06:25, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Park West

Hello new editor. Might I ask that you don't re-categorise Dublin "Towns and Suburbs" without some discussion (I'm assuming it was you who recategorised Citywest). Park West for example is much more that a "business park" - ask some of the thousands of people living there! (Sarah777 23:38, 16 May 2007 (UTC))

Hello Sarah77. Have not got to City West yet, but I had noted that Towns and Suburbs - which I think means something clear to the ordinary gal/guy reading (including me in my previous existence as an ordinary Wikipedia user) - while mostly being actual suburbs of Dublin, and nearby villages/towns, also had a number of housing estates and business parks. These are commercial developments, and often fine ones, but they are *not* suburbs, except maybe to property agencies. I note from the discussion forums that such issues have arisen before. Whether posted as such for promotional reasons or not, I thought the best thing was to simply correct the categorisation, while adding to the article if possible; further, one could place them into the suburbs to which they do belong. And so Point Village, a road in Dundrum, etc., also... Maybe some day some of these will be new suburbs, but probably not under marketing names like "Park West", and before being recognised encyclopedically, in a longer timetable, with appropriate action by the authorities (neither local authority nor An Post has recognised Park West or City West, which is Tallaght/Saggart, for example, as anything like a suburb). On numbers, thousands can live in one apartment complex too, but that does not make it a suburb.

Anyway, I guess I am not the only concerned party, and I think this does matter in a publication aiming for encyclopedic standards, but of course I am happy to discuss further. Perhaps best if I raise a topic in the Ireland discussion area. SeoR 06:22, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

If you review the discussions on this issue you'll see that I have been involved in trying to get various housing estates, invented places etc de-listed as "surburbs" (without much support from fellow Wikipedians). Regarding Citywest and Park West I completely disagree with you on the notion of "required time-span"; "commercial development" and your dismissal of the residency issue as "an apartment block". Citywest is a suburb; it includes the Hotel and Golf Course outside the Business Park; both Citywest and Park West are getting their own named railway/luas stations, Citywest is widely referred to as a suburb in conversation and in the media. By all means take your case to the Irish Wikipedians forum; you'll need more argument and less assertion over there! (Sarah777 09:07, 17 May 2007 (UTC))

Thanks for reverting, Sarah. I am glad to hear that re. housing estates, invented places, etc. As your activity from joining last year is pretty substantial, I take your word for this, and I think we agree then on the issue. Great.

I am not, however, convinced re. the developments in question, and I do not see the relevance of the hotel, for example. And as a Dubliner, I have never heard either City or Park West called a suburb; most usually, they are called "industrial estates", whether that is fair or not.

I hope there is no problem with my raising a legitimate issue; I assume good faith all round from colleagues (if not necessarily one-time IDs!) but am a little concerned at the tone of the remarks here and in history, such as "more argument and less assertion". After all, Park West and the other two are only in Wikipedia by assertion in the first place! Anyway, hope we can agree to plough ahead, and I will look back to Dublin areas in a day or two, but will keep clear of Park West - City West - Cherrywood, other than typo correction. All the best! SeoR 12:17, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

SeoR! Apologies for any tonal aggression but I am now a veteran of many Wiki-battles and have come to realise that "assuming good faith" is more honoured in the breach than otherwise. I was reacting to remarks such as "surely a joke" and "no need for any discussion" etcetera. However now that I'm getting to know you I sense there is probably no real difference between us on categorising suburbs! (And at least you are interested in the topic; my earlier attempt to get Irish Wikipedians interested in establishing some rules generated a collective yawn. Regards (Sarah777 20:01, 17 May 2007 (UTC))

Hi Sarah, somewhat accidentally, I had a timeout Friday - as with some others, where I note logins clustered at lunchtime (and late evening), I often edit from work, and Friday was a killer, with a major bid. And then I took some time yesterday to just browse, and to follow some users' edit histories (three samples from Ireland, etc.), and to read more debates. And then, to this morning, some photography.

Anyway, thanks, and my apologies for any initial hastiness in editing. I shall not make remarks about jokes, or no need for discussion, but I have seen such in the edit comments here and there, and I note that some of the debates on the Irish talk page have been rather "pointed". I will try to avoid all such, hence my raising, gently, the question here, up front. And if we can work together on suburban definition, or more substantive issues, delighted. I will resume editing this evening, hopefully including some photo additions (via Commons, I think, which I believe I need to sign up for separately). Regards,

[edit] Grand Canal Dock

I wondered how long till you spotted this! That was quick. I've commented on the GCD discussion page. Regards (Sarah777 19:35, 21 May 2007 (UTC))

Thanks Sarah; only really got back to editing yesterday, and visited every one of Towns and Suburbs. One definite goner, a housing estate in little old Firhouse, and two I thought questionable, but have only queried. Will revert at GDC, SeoR 06:27, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Perrystown

I de-listed this and made it part of Crumlin. Then I noticed Windy Arbour has become a suburb...always marked on maps but rarely mention till the Luas halt arrived. Should Perrystown be separate? Is it less a "suburb" than Windy Arbour? (Sarah777 22:04, 22 May 2007 (UTC))

Ah, tougher cases. Windy Arbour is usually considered part of Dundrum, both the tiny village area and the nearby housing. But it has some historic identity.

But Perrystown I have neither observed over the years of reading about Dublin and its maps (and one of the folks lives in Crumlin) nor heard of as a distinct area. Sounds to me like you got it right. I do prefer a conservative approach to divisions of the city, though. SeoR 23:40, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

On 4 June 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article St. Assam's Church, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

• Great job, I nominated this one! Nice work. --Smee 13:12, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sending redirects to AfD

Thanks for your efforts to keep Wikipedia neat and tidy. I need to give you some feedback, however, on the Clontarf redirects that you nominated for AfD. First, redirects don't get sent to AfD, they get sent to Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion. Second, for redirects such as C of i, rather then nominating it for deletion, it's more appropriate to simply edit it and send it to the proper destination, in this case Church of Ireland. As the guideline states, redirects are cheap, and are used to aid the search engine in helping people find articles. Thus, many editors create a number of redirects when they create an article, using all possible combinations of the subject's name. This is generally a good thing. If you have any questions, or need further clarification, please don't hesitate to drop me a line. AKRadecki 17:22, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, AFRadecki. All part of the learning for me, notably re. the process for redirect queries. As to the issue, I happened onto it along the way, and it seemed to me, in line with comments from others, that there was an issue, matching a greater pattern. I did not just edit the redirects because I thought a debate was more appropriate, and to be honest, I am not sure something as generic as C of I should be there at all - I am sure it has other meanings in the world. Apologies for any nuisance.

And now that I know that multiple redirects are seen as a positive, and a tool, I guess I had better go back and create at least some more for past articles. I was assuming the search tool took care of common variants, a la Google, but this sounds perfectly workable too. SeoR 00:35, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Malahide

Do you have a source for your recent edit to Malahide? What you wrote as a reference is just extra detail. What references are really supposed to be are references to external verifiable sources for the edits you add. Hope you can do that. Thanks ww2censor 03:08, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, one paper but one online and so readily useable - and will add at once. Thanks for hint. Perhaps what I was really looking for was a Footnote capability, and I may have picked up a wrong example from other cases. SeoR 23:27, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Clondalkin

Oooops! Sorry about that SeoR. (Sarah777 20:20, 8 July 2007 (UTC))

No worries - as I commented in putting the older bits back, just a slip of the mouse. The main edit was needed! BR, SeoR 10:03, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Irish articles assessments

It seems that the assessment of Irish articles has fallen off the radar but recently Flowerpotman, Sarah777 and I have been doing a little work on this as well as actually classifying articles (actually Sarah has done the most work). Anyway, you are listed as a member of the WikiProject hence this post.

• The first thing that needs doing is to work on the WikiProject template. Actually there are two templates both of which get recorded by the assessment statistics bot that collects the ratings and creates the listings in the category Category:Ireland articles by quality. The two project templates are {{Irelandproj}} listed on the main project page and {{WikiProject Ireland}} listed on the assessment page—the first allows both quality and importance rating as well as nesting but no reviewer comments, while the second allows quality rating and comments but the importance does not seem to work and comments are not included. This needs to be fixed, so we use one that works fully—can you help?

• The next thing is to decide if we just let editors assess as they wish or to create some criteria or guidelines for rating the quality and importance of the Irish articles. Personally I am in favour of some guidelines—some will be easy to decide while others are a little more complex. What do you think?

• Some projects make lists of articles for assessment while other go after groups of articles by category. What should we do? A mixture of both by using a "To do list"?

• As of the last assessment statistics bot run on Sunday, August 20, only 1462 articles have been tagged, of which 1156 have been assessed for quality but 660 of these have no importance value.

• Besides these 1462 there must be hundreds more untagged articles that should be tagged when we get the template issue mentioned above fixed.

We are not bad in our assessments but some projects have all their articles assessed while others are lacking more than we are. We can really use a few active editors to bring assessments to the fore. Please reply on the assessment talk page as to what you can do. Please help out. ww2censor 17:35, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dollymount again

Seo; I see your point re Dolly v Bull. Remember what Jimmy Wales said...be bold! Do it. Don't worry about my tender feelings...it I disagree you'll know soon enough!! -:) (Sarah777 21:46, 31 August 2007 (UTC))

Hi Sarah, sorry, moving fast, did not note you, or would have called directly. Just a thing re tidiness - would like all on Bull Island incl Dollymount Strand on that article, and Dollymount is just the small enclave (Bull Island is Clontarf / Raheny anyway). Will do, SeoR 16:10, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion of Dublin Shopping Centre Articles

Please see Talk:Shopping in Dublin (Sarah777 20:38, 13 October 2007 (UTC))

[edit] edit histories

Hi. Normally, of course, the wikipedia doesn't move pages using cutting-and-pasting. When spinning off part of a page's content to start another page, though, sometimes it's necessary; and this is what you quite correctly did when spinning off part of Primate of Ireland to create the pages Archbishop of Dublin (Church of Ireland) and Archbishop of Dublin (Roman Catholic). However, when doing a cut-and-paste move, it is essential to note the fact in the intial edit summary: say something like Pasting in content cut from Primate of Ireland; for earlier edit history see that page. Otherwise we'll have trouble in future when we try to reckon that text's origin. Thanks, Doops | talk 17:03, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Speedy deletion of Cameron O'Reilly

A tag has been placed on Cameron O'Reilly requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not indicate the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, as well as our subject-specific notability guideline for biographies.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that a copy be emailed to you. Torchwood Who? (talk) 09:34, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hi

I just wanted to note that I have a background in Irish Literature and I have many critical sources in the area to help reference pages on such topics. I will not join the project, perse, but if you need any help on such topics, you can always drop me a message and I will be glad to help. Ottava Rima (talk) 14:52, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Excellent, good to know, thanks! Referencing has become ever more important, especially to secure and retain higher quality ratings (A, GA, FA), and sources are sometimes hard for those of us with certain work patterns. Will be in touch then, SeoR (talk) 17:27, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Please check out The Drapier's Letters and copyedit if it needs any. I will hunt down the 7 plates that correspond with each letter when I have a chance. Ottava Rima (talk) 20:17, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] And Hi!

Seo, what do you make of THIS!! Sarah777 (talk) 16:26, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi Sarah! Sorry, only on briefly over coffee earlier, but action taken :-) A nice case alright - a housing estate in an invented suburb, legally still part of Kilbarrack. But Bayside is now established, having had its own identity since the löate 1960's, and being essentially an "island" between DART and coast road. The only issue which blurs the lines is the occasional attempt to "rebrand" parts of it as Sutton. So I have created the Bayside category, which has a respectable number of entries anyway. Perhaps later we should reconsider Sutton Park, Hazelbury Green and many road / street articles, but until we can review the topic as a whole, I think we can leave them, as long as no one attempts to list them directly as suburbs - they must fit into a larger topic which is properly notable. SeoR (talk) 09:45, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Laudabiliter

It's not that Adrian was Emglish is unimportant, it just jars where it was and still does to a lesser extent. I particularly didn't like the previous wording that said that he was often remarked to be the only English pope, he was the only English pope, it's an out-and-out fact rather than an opinion.

The problem with this article is finding a neutral wording, for example, Henry II is described as King of England, which fair enough is true. However Queen Victoria was Queen of Ireland, would you find it a bit odd if an article on India referred to Victoria of Ireland? Henry II had an empire in which England was a mere province, he had a lot of different titles he wasn't just King of England.

With reference to Adrian, stressing the point that he was English carries the implication that he issued the bull out of somekind of English nationalism. In fact the bull continued the church's policy of crushing the Celtic church as had happened in England (e.g. Synod of Whitby) and the bull was confirmed by the next incumbent.

Henry II was a foreign invader who occupied England, it is unlikely that Adrian was biased in favour of the Norman empire and far more likely that he was following established Church policy.GordyB (talk) 11:45, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I agree that this is an article that can breed problems, and so strong neutrality is essential. Perhaps just having Adrian linked to his article is enough - I have no issue if that seems best. On the matter of his background and the issuing of the bull, this is more complex historically. Yes, there was a general policy of erasing the Celtic church's distinct practices, and this existed before and after Adrian - but at least some historians also believe that it was not insignificant that the bull was secured at that moment. But perhaps we should not dig into such complexities - we will never know the hows and whys. And indeed, as someone else commented in Talk, and per your comment above, Henry was himself a newcomer, who almost certainly did not think of himself as English (somewhat of a term of abuse among the Normans then and long after) and whom it may well have suited to support general church policies, which also supported his possession of England! SeoR (talk) 10:16, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Jimmy Barry-Murphy

Hi Seor, well done having a go an importance rating for Jimmy Barry-Murphy (I couldn't decide). However, I was surprised that you also downgraded it to stub-class; are you sure that was what you intended? Sure, there are no refs and it's highly POV, but it seesm to meet thnse start-class criteria in several respects. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:12, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi BHG, yes, it was the intention, though I agree it is fairly firm - but no more, as the total lack of references, where for someone like Barry-Murphy, plenty are available, is a significant failure. I spent more time on the importance, as this is one of the few guys who might be High. On Class, I have, even having done only in the thousand range, less willing to give Start where an obvious failure to reference is present. SeoR (talk) 17:46, 13 April 2008 (UTC)