Talk:Sentō

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Japan, a project to improve all Japan-related articles. If you would like to help improve this and other Japan-related articles, please join the project. All interested editors are welcome.
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the assessment scale.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.
Japan To-do:

Contents

[edit] Voyourism section

I think voyourism section mentioning about gay and children is bit stupid. It say more about how non Japanese feel self concious when they enter sento first time. Moved information regarding kids allowed to enter both sie to other place. FWBOarticle 21:10, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Boys staring at adult female customers of the other sex is a problem many females have encountered in Japan. While I am unclear about the exact definition of voyerism, this staring definitely makes other people very uncomfortable. I have added the section again. -- Chris 73 | Talk 07:06, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
The reference to bandai is too esoteric, this word should be given a definition or replaced with a layman's term. Malnova 05:53, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
I like Bandai best, but I am open to alternatives. How would you call it? -- Chris 73 | Talk

[edit] Sento = a type of public bath house

I added distinction between "sento" and "Japanese bath house." The sento is only one type of public bath house (公衆浴場 kōshū yokujō) that meets certain criterias, and are subject to price restrictions by law. --69.214.226.246 01:30, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Featured article?

With a thorough hammering of grammar and general structure, there is all the material here for a future featured article. Anyone want to go over it with me? Soo 11:44, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Merge

This article should be merged with Sento, and also needs a major cleanup. Exploding Boy 05:48, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

...um.... this is the article Sento. Should this be merged with another article? Which one? -- Chris 73 | Talk 06:49, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I came to it via a link in another article, which opened the page up to the Tension between social groups in sento bathhouses section. So, no merge, but yes cleanup. Exploding Boy 20:03, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disambiguation Page?

While there are Sentō that are bathhouses, there is also an American customer service company called SENTO. How would we best accommodate both articles? A disambiguation page? A tag like "Sento (company)"? Bo-Lingua 15:36, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Sento (company) would be best. --日本穣 Nihonjoe 18:27, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
Would we just want to put a tag on this page saying "For the American Company see: x"? or would it be better to have a disambiguation page? Is Wikipedia not sensitive for diacritics? Bo-Lingua
SENTO would also work, with For the American Company see: x. On a side note, if you are an member of this company, you should restrain from creating an article, since this would be self promotion. The company should be notable enough to warrant an encyclopedia article. -- Chris 73 | Talk 19:21, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Manual of Style (trademarks) discourages ALL CAPS for article titles, even if the company uses them. --日本穣 Nihonjoe 19:32, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
Duly noted, Chris, and good point. Thanks for the clarification of the on the Wiki Style Guide. Bo-Lingua 19:56, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sentos that are anti-Yakuza

I changed a portion that said "many sentō and onsen have a no tattoo rule to keep yakuza out of their baths, often under the pretense of hygienic reasons". However, from my experiences at these places, the sentos do not hide the fact that they want to refuse services to yakuzas in particular, and they make no phoney claims about hygienic reasons either. On the streets of these neighbourhoods there are often signs that say something along the lines of "Yakuzas get out!", etc.—Tokek 14:49, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] actual tempretures

what are the actual tempretures of the baths? i have heard that japanese like very hot baths, for instance ≈60 degrees C. which is very hot, it's scalding. is this correct?

I have read that in america water heaters for private baths (spas, jacuzzis) are not allowed over 104°F (40°C, not very hot) by law.

i think the article should mention actual temperatures. -unsigned

Typically they are in the range of 12 - 45 °C. The baths in the mid to upper 40's are considered "very hot", while the baths in the teens °C are usually taken to cool down, after a sauna, for example. Rumors of ≈60°C were greatly exaggerated. —MangoCurry 10:41, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
There is one onsen (not sento), where the water used to come out at 60, and they stirred it like mad for a few minutes to bring the temp down, so they could spend 1:30 min in there. But I think the water flows changed and it s no longer so hot. Nowadays supposedly they do it only for tourists. Otheriwse the temp in sentos can be adjusted by the customers, and even the attendants often do not know the actual temp. -- Chris 73 | Talk 07:58, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discrimintion

I removed the following sentence "However, except for a single case in a small town in Hokkaido, racial discrimination at public baths virtually does not exist." on the grounds that this is not verifiable either way.

I also alter this sentence " such racist situations are very rare" to "rarely reported".

There is not intention to imply that racism is rampant at sentos, the statements were just one person's opinions. —unsigned

There is lack of facts or reason to speculate that racism is anything but rare to nonexistant at a sentō. To give an impression otherwise would be misleading the reader. The "such racist situations are very rare" snippet may have been another person's addition to the article, if so, that'd mean it wasn't "just one person's opinion." IMHO, an encyclopedia shouldn't exceed reasonable speculation.

Before I added the snippet you mention, I did search Google for other instances, but I couldn't find any. My searches did not suggest racism was a widely reported issue save for one instance. If someone has better reseach skills, that's fine with me. However as a general rule X shall be innocent of Y until proven otherwise. —Tokek 11:03, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Sento history - Mixed-sex vs. single-sex

I'm under the impression that traditionally, i.e. before the opening of Japan to the West, most sento were mixed-sex, meaning men and women bathed together. If my impression is correct, it would seem there's been a significant cultural change in the sento during the past hundred years. Shouldn't such a major alteration get a fairly prominent mention in the article? T.129.93.16.77 01:42, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

My understanding is that mixed bathing was forbidden during various times in historiy with various levels of enforcement, and the current separation originates from commodore Perry. - Chris 73 | Talk 06:14, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
I noticed that you seem to have edited the onsen article to agree with your supposition. I did note that the earlier edit claimed it was a rural tradition - that edit was unsourced as well, however - being "under the impression" is not a valid source for a claim in a wikipedia article. I have added citation needed, but am going to look around and see if there is a source that would resolve this.72.205.55.200 21:30, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Etiquete section removal.

The entire section was practically "PUBLIC BATHES: The Walkthrough". While it might be educational, it's highly inappropriate for wikipedia. Maybe wikiversity or even a wikibook on japanese culture/visiting japan (actually, that seems like a good idea) would be better, and then post a link to another wiki. Or explain the etiquette without using "you", or post a link to a site that explains 'the rules' (there has to be tons out there), but just not on wikipedia -- Phoeba WrightOBJECTION! 12:26, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. I removed a couple of sentences that give advice, but otherwise i think the basic procedure is a description that is useful for the article. -- Chris 73 | Talk 03:52, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't know what the etiquette section was line before the changes above, but the article is now virtually content-free in information about how someone actually uses a public bath. The article says that foreigners have occasionally polluted the baths by getting in unwashed (so presumably one washes first), and another part of the article says that some customers bring their own buckets (so presumably a bucket is involved somehow), but other than that the article tells the reader nothing. Could this the intention of the changes? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.46.159.158 (talk) 04:16, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.


Sentō → Public bathing in Japan — Some factors to explain my position:

  1. This article has grown to become pretty much the default "public bathing in Japan" article
  2. The fact that sento are not the only kind of public baths in Japan makes this article title inappropriate for a generic "Public bathing in Japan" article, even though they are one of the most common types of public baths in the country
  3. The distinction between a sento and a non-sento public baths are trivial and not important enough to have a new "Public bathing in Japan" article that is separate from the "Sento" article

—MangoCurry 23:06, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.
  • Oppose The current article still primarily seems to be about Sentō, even if it has expanded to include other things. There's a separate article at onsen, so I think we can keep this about Sentō. John Smith's 22:51, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
    • Sentō combined with onsen does not cover everything, so the mere existence of an onsen article doesn't quite provide a perfect solution. (They also overlap anyway - some sento can have onsen as well.) --MangoCurry 04:19, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose, though I think creating a redirect from Public bathing in Japan to Sentō would be a good idea. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 01:11, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
    • Do you think the redirect should be a temporary one until a separate "Public bathing in Japan" article is created? Or do you think the redirect should be a permanent solution and that the Sentō article should be expanded beyond just sentō and that the scope of the Sentō article should basically be "Public bathing in Japan" in general? --MangoCurry 04:19, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose. I agree with 日本穣. BTW, it's not tatami mat in the changing room but goza/茣蓙/蓙/ござ on the (mostly wooden) floor. Oda Mari 06:00, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
    • That's for sure. Tatami would rot and fall apart within a few weeks in such a wet environment. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 06:02, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Any additional comments:
Information for all. It's the definition of Sento from jp.wiki.

法律上は、公衆浴場として、次の定義がされている。

  • 「公衆浴場法」第1条の規定

この法律で「公衆浴場」とは、温湯、潮湯又は温泉その他を使用して、公衆を入浴させる施設をいう。

  • 「公衆浴場の確保のための特別措置に関する法律」第2条の規定

この法律で「公衆浴場」とは、公衆浴場法（昭和二十三年法律第百三十九号）第一条第一項に規定する公衆浴場であつて、物価統制令（昭和二十一年勅令第百十八号）第四条の規定に基づき入浴料金が定められるものをいう。

さらに、各都道府県の条例で、「普通公衆浴場」（おおよそ「日常生活における保健衛生上必要な入浴のために設けられた公衆浴場」と定義される）と「その他の公衆浴場」（自治体によっては「特殊公衆浴場」とも呼ぶ）に分けられており、「普通公衆浴場」を一般に「銭湯」と呼ぶ。

なお、入浴料金は物価統制令（現憲法発布前に出された勅令。法律としての効力を持つ）の規定により、各都道府県知事の決定で上限が定められている。そのため都道府県ごとで料金が違う。 Oda Mari 05:19, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

It may be useful to post a translation for anyone who doesn't read Japanese. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 05:29, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
I'm not good at J to E translation. To translate the long definition short, 普通公衆浴場/standard public bath/Sento is a public bath house to keep one's body in good hygiene in daily life basis. Not for recreation or luxuary. Correct my English, please. Thank you. Oda Mari 06:07, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved. --Stemonitis 11:46, 20 August 2007 (UTC)