Talk:Sengunthar

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[edit] References for Kaikolar/Sengunthar Devadasis

  • Asia in the Making of Europe: A Century of Advance. Book 2, South Asia - Page 1032

by Donald F Lach, Edwin J Van Kley - History - 1998 - 662 pages Snippet view:[1]: Clearly describes the status of Kaikolars.

  • Book: Of Property and Propriety: The Role of Gender and Class in Imperialism and Nationalism - Page 178 by Bannerji, Himani, Mojab, Shahrzad, Whitehead, Judith [2] Again, the google link provides a limited preview. This books also talks in great length about the Kaikolar Devadasis and the Brahmin men.
  • Madras Gazetteer recognized by the Government of India: providing google link. follow link for full book. [3], [4]

The Kaikolars are described in great detail in the following research articles and their identity has been clearly proven as the same terinja-Kaikolar Padai of the Chola empire. There is absolutely no question of any ambiguity. You can only deny in vain. Pathetic.

  • The Erotic Sculptures of India Y. Krishan Artibus Asiae, Vol. 34, No. 4 (1972), pp. 331-343

(proves that kaikolan musicians = devadasis) snippet view: [5] link 2: http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0004-3648(1972)34%3A4%3C331%3ATESOI%3E2.0.CO%3B2-2

  • Artisans in Vijayanagar Society, Vijaya Ramaswamy, Indian Economic & Social History Review, Vol. 22, No. 4, 417-444 (1985)

This research article explains the blood relation between the Devadasis and the Kaikolar. ("Devaradiyar (dancing girls who have very close kinship ties with the Kaikkolar"[6]

This research article explains in vivid detail, the way the Kaikkolas used their women to enjoy special privileges in the Vijayanagar empire. (Text Quoted from article: "At least one woman in every Kaikkola household was, according to age-old tradition dedicated to the temple as a devaradiyar or devadasi. The devaradiyar enjoyed special privileges in the days of the Vijayanagar empire and were the only women permitted a direct audience with the king". link2:[7]

This research article (along with references to an inscription) describes how a devaradiyar or devadasi won special privileges for the Kaikkolas from the king Deva Raya II (A.D 1433).

snippet view: link2:[8]

  • Some Enquiries into the Condition of Weavers in Medieval South India, Indian Historical Review, Vol. VI, Nos. 1 and 2
  • This article talks in much detail about how women from the Sengundhar/ Kaikola caste get into the sacred prostitution in temples.

"Contending identities: Sacred prostitution and reform in colonial South India Priyadarshini Vijaisri A1, A1 Centre for the Study of Developing Societies (CSDS), New Delhi" South Asia: Journal of South Asian Studies Publisher: Routledge, part of the Taylor & Francis Group Issue: Volume 28, Number 3 / December 2005 Pages: 387 - 411 [9]


[edit] Reference about kaikolar in 1st century AD from Arikamedu

In the following snippet from Google books, we see that Kaikolar existed in 1st century AD. The weaving business must have been very important as early as 2000 years.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Q2QEAAAAYAAJ&q=kaikolar+arikamedu&dq=kaikolar+arikamedu&ei=wvDCR_ymGoSkiQHAqti0CA&pgis=1 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Saedirof (talk • contribs) 16:52, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Reference for Kaikolar Devadasis

The Erotic Sculptures of India, Y. Krishan, Artibus Asiae, Vol. 34, No. 4 (1972), pp. 331-343 provides references that describe the social status of Kaikolar women in India. The author explains how the Kaikolar Devadasi could never become a widow as she was considered to be married to the temple deity. Moreover the beads in her tali (thread worn by married Hindu women) were considered to bring good luck to women.

Youonlylivetwice (talk) 15:10, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Need to restore true spirit of wiki here

Youonlylivetwice, seems to be hell bent on vandalizing Mudaliar and Sengunthar sites. His tone and tenor of the edits as well as presenting facts twisted, alluding to derogatory remarks. I am also shocked and dismayed the obsession with which he goes on editing the page only filled with derogatory stuff. Looks like this user has been doing colossal damage to the wiki in the name of facts. I, also feel that he has personal animosity towards this community.

I believe there are facts about many communities Jews, Muslims, Christians but if the community feels it's derogatory it's best left ignored and not dragged into public, digging up history only to malign a community is not going to benefit anyone and I trust Wiki would continue to serve in the best interests of various communities.

I could have as well gone and started restoring or editing but I feel we need to have permanent resolution. This can only be achieved with help of protection of the pages as well as the admins understand the material presented here so that there would not be any need in future to convince new admins. I'm looking forward for an early resolution Redlance (talk) 05:47, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] To restore sanity and stop edit warring

I have gone through the entire history of edit warring. Originally the page was a mirror of http://sengunthamithiran.com/ABOUTUS.HTM page. This information can be considered authentic.

I propose to all concerned, including the WIKI admins, let this page http://sengunthamithiran.com/ABOUTUS.HTM be the source of information of Wiki:Sengunthar. As this page represents the community, Sengunthars and it does not in any way offend the sentiments of other communities or people.

Hope this will stop all warring and restore the page to the original stuff.Redlance (talk) 06:42, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Senguntha Prabantha Thiratu

Senguntha Prabantha Thiratu [10] is here, now, many can access it. We can refer it here in the WIKI Redlance (talk) 06:09, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Reference on Mudali title

This is a better reference and dates back to 14th century

Science and Empire: Essays in Indian Context, 1700-1947 [11]

Craft and Social Identity [12] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Redlance (talk • contribs) 06:29, 15 April 2008 (UTC)