Talk:Semper fidelis

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[edit] L'viv Motto?

Was semper fidelis restored as the motto of todays L'viv?

I wondered about that, too, because it is most often referred to in historical documents, with the Latin name of the city ("Leopolis semper fidelis"). However, a couple of current web documents (one from the Vatican) apply it to modern L'viv. Maybe we should just email the city information office and ask. BTW, does anyone know the date when this motto became associated with L'viv? it would be sensible to arrange the users of the motto in date order on the page, but I have no idea whether L'viv's use is earlier or more recent than Exeter's - though we do have the date of the latter. seglea 10:13, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)
The date of the motto comes from 1658 when pope Alexander VII used the expression describing its heroic defense against constant attacks by infidels, in Poland it's generally used to refer to the times of the Polish-Bolshevik War.
And Polish-Ukrainian War as well...Halibutt

[edit] Devonshire

Who are the Devonshire regiment? All it says is that they're known as the 11th... 205.174.22.28 02:49, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Castle

Common on the arms of cities; see Hamburg, for instance (http://fhh.hamburg.de/stadt/Aktuell/senat/service/wappen/start.html). Thus not coincidence, because the castle represents a city. Often the crest above civic arms is a mural crown (looks like wall with battlements).

Spanish-speaking countries are very fond of civic appellations as "Muy Noble y Muy Leal," generally given by a sovreign in appreciation of loyalty in times of civil strife. Alfonxo X praised Seville as loyal: "No me han dejado" ("they did not abandon me") and so the civic arms show skein of yarn (madeja; it looks like an elongated figure 8) between the words "No Do," making a rebus of the king's praise.

[edit] Ordering the page

This page has been re-ordered several times, I suspect with enthusiasts for each of the owners of the motto wanting to put "their" organisation first. Could I plead that we adopt some consistent policy, and that it be ordering by date of acquisition, which is at least objective? However I can quite see that enthusiasts for the US Marines might not like their Corps being buried under historic cities, so I have put in some headings to force up a Table of Contents in the hope of keeping everyone reasonably happy.

On a second point, shouldn't the full words of the song go into Wikisource?

seglea 20:34, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation

How is "Semper Fi" pronounced? Should be "Fi" as in "Hi-Fi", right? Because I heard a lot of "Fi"s as in "Five".

The "Fi" in "Hi-Fi" sounds the same as "Fi" in "Five".

It's pronounced fi as in fish!

Every time I've heard it pronounced it has been the same as "Fi" in "Five". However for that matter I've never heard anyone prononuce "Fi" from "Hi-Fi" as in "Fish"! Understandably it's an abbrevation of Fidelity but I'm yet to come across anyone who doesn't pronounce the pair Hi and Fi to match! --77.102.144.218 (talk) 03:38, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] .mp3 file

The semper fidelis(.mp3) link doesn't work.

Yep, I guess they started blocking referrers. "Data files must be stored on the same site they are linked from."
Kurt 10:51, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Origins of Exeter's use of the motto

The story that the motto was granted by Elizabeth I to Exeter, though widely reported (e.g. on the Exeter City Council web page) is proving hard to source. The letter reported in the story is not in the city archives, according to the Devon Record Office who hold them. Exeter's arms were granted in 1547 and the formal description of the grant doesn't include the motto; and John Hooker's map of Exeter of 1587 (found here) clearly shows the arms without the motto. It would be good to document this one. seglea 01:04, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

working backwards... there's an 1835 map of Exeter at [1] which clearly shows the motto on the coat of arms. seglea 21:51, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] slightly POV statement

The following statement from the article seemed a bit POV:

"Semper fidelis" signifies the dedication and loyalty that individual Marines are expected to have (and inherently do have) for "Corps and Country".

I believe the statement would be better worded:

"Semper fidelis" signifies the dedication and loyalty that individual Marines are expected to have for "Corps and Country".

This wording conveys the same information but does not shed biased towards the USMC. I'm a huge fan of the Marines, but I think saying they "inherently" have dedication is a bit much. Saying most or all marines do might be okay if well worded, but Marines do not "inherently" have dedication. --Matthew 00:07, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Marineses

Just a slight bug: "...Per Terram" is the motto of the Royal Marines. Really. So

"There were three mottos prior to Semper Fidelis including "Fortitudine" (meaning "with courage") antedating the War of 1812, which was a nod to the British Royal Marines, "Per Mare, Per Terram" ("by sea, by land") and, up until 1843, there was also the motto "To the Shores of Tripoli". "

is actually not making a lot of sense. Are we saying the two Marines swapped mottoes? And do we mean the period 1805ish to 1843 was "...Tripoli" ? It's needlessly complicated at the minute. I can understand adopting the Tripoli one immediately after the Barbary War, but adopting it and then a decade later adopting the motto of an enemy victor (who themselves had only adopted it in the 1780's) seems flighty at best.

Since we've only got two dates and three mottoes, was there competition, unofficial adoption or what? The only other way to make sense of this seems to be to accept "Fortitudine" as some kind of homage to the RM motto. Which is confusing a whole other way. 172.143.144.156 22:26, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Videogame quote

The phrase "Semper Fi" was also used (allbeit just once) by John Dalton in the video-game Unreal2

[edit] Forever Faithful

I though Semper Fi meant Forever Faithful, or is my Latin wrong? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.100.71.152 (talk) 03:47, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Family backgrounds

The family histories are interesting, but only need briefly mentioned as this this an article on Semper fi, not those families. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:42, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Serviciul de Protecţie şi Pază

They also have semper fidelis as the motto. Mallerd (talk) 21:41, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article contents - what is appropriate/notable?

It seems that, over a period of time, this article has become a bit of a random list of families, places, and organizations; most without citations. Semper fidelis seems to be a popular motto. Not every group that has it as its motto should be included in this article. I propose that there should be some basic criteria to decide whether an entry should be included.

Here are some ideas:

  • Must already have a Wikipedia article. By extension, this means that they have sufficient notabiltiy to pass an AfD.
  • Must have a citation from a reliable source to verify the motto.

— ERcheck (talk) 21:09, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Agreed it's a bit of a mess. I have tried to tidy up a bit by not having subsections except in cities and martial, where more substantial commentary is worthwhile. seglea (talk) 17:40, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Well done whoever took the knife to the rag tag and bobtail of schools etc. In honour of this very sensible surgery, I have removed the cleanup tag. seglea (talk) 21:38, 2 June 2008 (UTC)